VOGONS


First post, by okenido

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I don't know why but, I kinda like the idea of reusing old hardware, heavily optimizing stuff to get the best out of it. I've always liked the look of Slot1 CPUs so I decided to build a PC around that. A machine that could run a modern OS well enough for not-too-demanding usages. I'd like it to handle some snes/genesis emulation, web browsing and "light" (ehm) games like League of Legends on low settings.

OK... not sure if possible 😊

Anyway, I ordered a PIII 933mhz and an Asus P3V 4X motherboard. I'll stuff it with 4*512Mb sdram (the max supported by the VIA 694X chipset).
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+ an SSD through an IDE/SATA adapter (because I never liked hard drives...)

Sounds like a good idea or complete foolish ?

This config seems to meet W10 minimal requirements (1ghz cpu, 1gb ram -- are there other requirements?), but since it's really old hardware I wonder if it would work.

Do you have an idea about which graphics card i should get ?

Last edited by okenido on 2017-09-21, 23:18. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 2 of 40, by Dani-01

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As mrau said, the PIII does not have all the instruction sets that Win 10 needs.
However, you could always go for Windows 7. It should install with 512MB RAM. Might be even worth trying to upgrade to Win 8 to see if that bypasses its requirements.

Reply 3 of 40, by PTherapist

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No chance, see this (applies to Win 8 & above) -

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-gb/library/dn482072.aspx

Later Socket 478 Pentium 4/Celeron or AMD Athlon 64/equivalent Sempron is about the oldest you can go, iirc.

Reply 4 of 40, by BeginnerGuy

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Hmm maybe somebody really nutty could write an interrupt to grab and simulate SSE2 instructions. Probably would need to spoof the CPUID too. Then wait about 20 years for the OS to boot 😜.

edit: and PAE and NX.. Forget it 😵 😎

Sup. I like computers. Are you a computer?

Reply 9 of 40, by vladstamate

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lazibayer wrote:

Is it possible to run Win10 as a guest on a VM on a Linux host on a P3 platform?

It is not. The VM will export a CPU with P3 capabilities so Win10 will refuse to install.

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Reply 13 of 40, by SW-SSG

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okenido wrote:

Ooh sad !
I'll try with 7 then. Most programs works on it so it's fine 😀

From my understanding, Win10 is lighter on system resources than Win7 is, even if 10 requires various newer CPU features. This probably won't end well...

Reply 14 of 40, by shamino

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Lack off SSE2 has been the source of some compatibility breakage with Pentium 3 and Athlon CPUs. Most notably and unnecessarily with Steam, whose developers have a habit of compiling the launcher frontend with legacy hostile flags set. An ability to emulate SSE2 just to bypass such requirements would be pretty sweet, but at this point it doesn't seem like it's ever going to happen.
I remember reading some discussion about this idea, and it seemed like the main problem is that due to the way Intel implemented those instructions, it's problematic to trap them. I don't remember why that is, but I think that was the problem people were having with the idea.

I've tried running some silly things on a P3 just for the fun of seeing how it would handle it, but I did those things from XP. Getting the Steam launcher to run was the main problem I ran into, but at least at the time it was still possible. Surprisingly, Skyrim doesn't require SSE2, or if it does, then the requirement only kicks in rarely enough to just make you think the game crashes a lot.
Some simpler Indie games were quite playable, even though they generally did not list P3 as supported. Probably because they didn't have one to test, I imagine.

Graphics card - if you want the machine to attempt to run things that are much newer than the P3 era, then use a card that supports later features for better compatibility. If I've misinterpreted, then nevermind the following and just use something like an FX series or a Ti4200.

On my silly build, I used a 694X board as you are using, and used a 7600GS with it. The 7600GS allowed it to run semi-modern Indie games, but there were also some problems. The 7600GS is natively an Express GPU and relies on a bridge chip to communicate with AGP. My unconfirmed belief is that this type of card is not compatible with the 694X chipset. Some games ran fine, others had seriously broken rendering. I haven't yet confirmed the cause but I strongly suspect the bridge chip not getting along with the VIA 694X chipset. The card was definitely good, I had tested it thoroughly with a couple of later AGP chipsets without issue.

I haven't yet tried a 6800/GT/Ultra, but that's what I think is the best option - under XP at least. It should have similar feature/API support as the 7xxx series cards, but the 6800 GPUs are natively AGP so I think they should get along better with the VIA chipset. However, I have no idea what driver support exists for these cards under Win7.
The 6600 is *not* an answer - those are bridged again like the 7xxx family.

In terms of performance, older cards generally make more sense, but they won't be as compatible with future dated software that I think you might be trying to push the machine to run.

Reply 15 of 40, by Standard Def Steve

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I ran the Win 8 Consumer Preview on my PIII years ago. I believe that was the last version that did not require SSE2.

94 MHz NEC VR4300 | SGI Reality CoPro | 8MB RDRAM | Each game gets its own SSD - nooice!

Reply 16 of 40, by ODwilly

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I installed the Windows 10 preview onto a failing 12gb Bigfoot Pentium 4 system for the lulz. It took an entire night to install, the BIGFOOT!!! clunking along merrily the entire time. I think it was after 2 days I was able to navigate the desktop. It took 5 minutes for edge to open. I think that is where I gave up on the idea and pulled the plug.

Main pc: Asus ROG 17. R9 5900HX, RTX 3070m, 16gb ddr4 3200, 1tb NVME.
Retro PC: Soyo P4S Dragon, 3gb ddr 266, 120gb Maxtor, Geforce Fx 5950 Ultra, SB Live! 5.1

Reply 17 of 40, by looking4awayout

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Forget about modern Windows versions beyond 7 on your system. To achieve the best performance on your Pentium 3 to use it as a daily driver, you should either install XP or 7, as long as you disable themes, animations and all the unnecessary services to reduce RAM and CPU consumption to the minimum.

You will also need to max the hardware out as much as possible. I did it with my computer (the "Ferrari Coppermine", you can read more about it if you click on my signature), by swapping the old Pentium 3 800Mhz EB Coppermine with a 1Ghz EB (always Coppermine, but I'm waiting for a pin modded Tualatin from South Korea), maxing the RAM out to 1,5GB of RAM (although I'll see if my motherboard can take 2GB with a 1GB ECC stick) swapped the old ATI Rage 128 graphics card with a Inno3D GeForce 6800GT 256MB, installed two 7200RPM 200GB and 160GB IDE hard drives, and this drastically increased the speed of my computer enough to be usable for average tasks. I can even watch Youtube videos using Minitube.

To increase speed and give some more room to the OS, I have installed Eboostr and connected a 4GB thumb drive permanently to my USB 2.0 card, turning it into a cache drive, alongside 4GB taken from the secondary hard drive, and this really helped to make the computer fast and very usable.

Clearly, the most important requirements are to use the fastest graphics card you can afford (it would be better if you'd have a Universal AGP slot, because a 6800GT/Ultra or 7800GS or an ATI Radeon HD 4830 models -if you don't want 9x compatibility- would be perfect) and Eboostr for extra cache, that matters especially if you can't go with more than 512MB of RAM, as long as you have a reliable USB 2.0 card (and so, with a NEC chipset. Avoid ALI, OPTi and VIA ones).

A beefy heatsink for the CPU and the graphics card is also a welcome addition, I have bought a full copper Cooler Master Jet 7 to keep my future pin-modded Tualatin cool enough, but at the moment I'm using an aluminium AVC heatsink taken out from a dead Athlon XP that works honestly. In future I also plan to replace my 200GB drive with a 300GB Western Digital Velociraptor, running at 10.000RPM should give an extra boost.

I'm using my Pentium 3 for daily tasks since late August, and I haven't turned on my Core2Duo laptop since. 🤣

My Retro Daily Driver: Pentium !!!-S 1.7GHz | 3GB PC166 ECC SDRAM | Geforce 6800 Ultra 256MB | 128GB Lite-On SSD + 500GB WD Blue SSD | ESS Allegro PCI | Windows XP Professional SP3

Reply 18 of 40, by oeuvre

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I really can't fathom how you are using a Pentium III for daily tasks. Browsing modern sites on even Pentium 4s is slow as molasses. I can't even imagine how slow it takes to render pages, especially heavier ones. And video sites? Forget it. Even for hte most basic of tasks like surfing and emailing, anything older than Core 2 Duo is going to have a bad time no matter how many Windows services you disable. Recently I tried Puppy Linux on a ThinkPad T42 (Pentium M 1.7GHz, 2GB RAM) and that was insufferable to browse the web with.

HP Z420 Workstation Intel Xeon E5-1620, 32GB, RADEON HD7850 2GB, SSD + HD, XP/7
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Reply 19 of 40, by okenido

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Much thanks for your advices and experiences !

1 year ago I had a pentium3 700mhz at my parents home with XP and Chrome and wasn't bad at all for web browsing. I don't know how much overhead Windows7 creates.

Maybe I could fit a tualatin CPU on this board if it's not fast enough. I saw a mod is required for most intel/via chipsets that doesnt support it natively, seems fun 😁

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looking4awayout I love how much effort you put into making your computer as useable as possible despite its age ! I have a ramdisk PCI card (the gigabyte one, supports max 4*1gb ddr sticks), I plan to use it as a swap like you did with your flash drive. IF i manage to make it work. I remember it wasn't very stable, often getting corrupted after reboots 😵

Last edited by okenido on 2017-09-22, 13:57. Edited 2 times in total.