I can of course give you my build specs, but it's honestly the game of what is available, what you want to spend, and what you want it to do. Retro PC building as far as parts picking isn't a whole lot different from modern PC building. You get the parts that are available and that are right for what you want, as well as your budget.

I personally run an EXP-4045 Socket 3 board by DataExpert/ExpertBoard. It has 256k of L2 cache, and an Am486-DX4-100-SV8B overclocked by FSB to 120mhz (40x3).

For sound I use an AWE32 CT:3670 (more similar to an AWE64 in functionality, but it's a good card either way)

Graphics I use a Diamond Multimedia Stealth SE using an S3 Trio32 chip with 2MB of video memory.

I have a DTC whatever model number VLB IO card. Bog standard, these don't matter as much, and are easy to find on Ebay.

The rest is pretty bog standard with not much to write home about.

As for if the board can use POST codes, most older boards do not have built in "POST cards" like modern systems. You can purchase combination ISA/PCI POST cards for next to nothing that will display POST codes that you can use to diagnose bad hardware. I think they even work all the way back to the 5150 where I think the standard originated.

Happy building!

Ampera wrote:

I can of course give you my build specs, but it's honestly the game of what is available, what you want to spend, and what you w […]
Show full quote

I can of course give you my build specs, but it's honestly the game of what is available, what you want to spend, and what you want it to do. Retro PC building as far as parts picking isn't a whole lot different from modern PC building. You get the parts that are available and that are right for what you want, as well as your budget.

I personally run an EXP-4045 Socket 3 board by DataExpert/ExpertBoard. It has 256k of L2 cache, and an Am486-DX4-100-SV8B overclocked by FSB to 120mhz (40x3).

For sound I use an AWE32 CT:3670 (more similar to an AWE64 in functionality, but it's a good card either way)

Graphics I use a Diamond Multimedia Stealth SE using an S3 Trio32 chip with 2MB of video memory.

I have a DTC whatever model number VLB IO card. Bog standard, these don't matter as much, and are easy to find on Ebay.

The rest is pretty bog standard with not much to write home about.

As for if the board can use POST codes, most older boards do not have built in "POST cards" like modern systems. You can purchase combination ISA/PCI POST cards for next to nothing that will display POST codes that you can use to diagnose bad hardware. I think they even work all the way back to the 5150 where I think the standard originated.

Happy building!

Thanks Ampera, so basically it's ok to just pick anything? I just don't want to spend $40 on a VLB card just to find out a 5 dollar junk card would be nearly the same thing. I think as long as the IO and graphics card just plain works I'll be happy to start. I'll check out the post cards too, that rings a big bell from back when I had a Keydata 486. I intentionally didn't mention sound card because I'll be swapping a bunch in and out, I have quite a few from Aztech cards all the way up to an awe32 I can throw in it.

How about we go about it this way.. Browsing through ebay, I've come across these VLB graphics cards at reasonable prices:

Trident TD9440VL TGUI9440-1 (very cheap)
Trident TGUI9400CXi (There is a seller with a bunch of these listed, different revisions dated all the way to '95)
Orchid Kelvin "EZ-VLB"
Cirrus Logic GD5426 (looks untested)
Cirrus Logic EMA00400A30S-E1
Cirrus Logic CARDEX P/N 9208-50 GD5428 -- one of the fastest ones on Phils list and it says it works, 30 bucks.
Paradise EMA0041000B0 LBG-1000VL2M
PIC PVGA310 (untested)

I'm noticing empty banks that are clearly for memory chips in all of them. I'm not sure how big of a deal that is. None of them list how much memory the card has. I'm guessing additional memory really wouldn't add much to the cards?

I'd feel best grabbing the TGUI9440CXi or maybe the GD5428 which is the only one the seller guarantees working, but is it true that the tridents were crap? I'm not sure why they were rated crap, maybe in comparison to the absolute best items in existence? I see it near the top of a VLB benchmark chart Phil did. Outside of these cards the prices start to crawl a bit high for my taste. It would take some serious convincing to get me to spend the 40-100+ USD asking prices on the other cards. I'm guessing for basic VGA 320x200 this isn't going to make much difference anyway.

I'll browse around some of the IDE controllers next.

Edit: "PCI & ISA PC Computer Motherboard Analyzer Tester" turns up a ton of hits on ebay. I'm guessing this would do for post diagnostic? Looks like an 8 bit isa card. I see the same thing comes much cheaper from china 😊

Oh and how does your system handle DOOM? Would you say you get 35FPS pretty consistent or close? I checked for your graphics card, can't seem to find one 😎

Personally, I found 5x86/VLB combo to be one of the trickiest configurations to use. 5x86 basically came out when 486 boards were mostly PCI, not VLB, so there are a lot of compatibility issues with motherboards, I/O controllers and videocards. Took me about a year to get it working, and it's still not too stable — you can learn about some of the caveats from my thread.

And in my experience, you really need a lot of spare parts for troubleshooting — e.g., an ISA videocard in case there are issues with a VLB card, an ISA I/O to troubleshoot your VLB controller and so on. So, unless you really need that performance, I'd say, stick to DX2/66 CPUs — that one works every time.

BeginnerGuy wrote:

4. Mouse. Would it be cheaper and more reliable to look for a ps/2 to serial connector and just use a newer ps/2 mouse or is that problematic vs just finding a serial mouse? Same applies to keyboard, but I think a ps/2 to AT connector would be more than fine.

AFAIK, not every PS/2 mouse will work with a PS/2>COM adapter, same thing with PS/2>AT. Never tried that myself, but I remember reading various threads here on Vogons saying that basically you need a mouse/keyboard that came with such an adapter to be sure that it will work.

**EDIT**: Heatsink. The CPU I have doesn't have the "Heatsink required" marking on it, so I'm assuming it is one of the later mobile versions, but I'd like to cool it anyway. Will a socket 7 heatsink fit socket 3? I have a few boxed away, otherwise I'll need to buy one.

I'd strongly suggest using a fan. Not sure about the dimensions, but the mounting is definitely different for Soc3 and Soc7. Most Soc7 coolers mount onto the socket, Soc3 mounts onto the CPU itself. You probably can use some sort of epoxy to permanently mount a Soc7 cooler though.

Another question: Would this board have post error codes like we see on later systems so I can track down the culprit if it doesn't post? I'm not sure I saw anything like that in the book.

Yes, it will. Your board uses an AMI WinBIOS.

Ah, yes, the infamous VLB compatibility issues.

PCI is definitely a nicer platform to work on with anything higher than a DX4. I suggest pick between a 5x86 and a DX4 for that one.

I also never said you can use ANYTHING. It's a case of comparing benchmarks and specs. I am more familiar with S3 and ATI cards myself, but if Phil says it's fast, he's probably right.

The missing memory chips on the graphics cards are for expansions. When I bought my Stealth SE I also bought extra memory chips, which can be expensive depending on your source. They fit into my budget perfectly fine, and I was happy to pay for them (as they are hard to find cheaper). They really only improve what resolutions and colour depths are attainable, so unless you are planning on using a CRT, you probably don't need to care.

The thing is called a POST card. If it says POST card and it has some 7 segment LED displays on it, it's probably a POST card.

jheronimus wrote:

Personally, I found 5x86/VLB combo to be one of the trickiest configurations to use. 5x86 basically came out when 486 boards wer […]
Show full quote

Personally, I found 5x86/VLB combo to be one of the trickiest configurations to use. 5x86 basically came out when 486 boards were mostly PCI, not VLB, so there are a lot of compatibility issues with motherboards, I/O controllers and videocards. Took me about a year to get it working, and it's still not too stable — you can learn about some of the caveats from my thread.

And in my experience, you really need a lot of spare parts for troubleshooting — e.g., an ISA videocard in case there are issues with a VLB card, an ISA I/O to troubleshoot your VLB controller and so on. So, unless you really need that performance, I'd say, stick to DX2/66 CPUs — that one works every time.

BeginnerGuy wrote:

4. Mouse. Would it be cheaper and more reliable to look for a ps/2 to serial connector and just use a newer ps/2 mouse or is that problematic vs just finding a serial mouse? Same applies to keyboard, but I think a ps/2 to AT connector would be more than fine.

AFAIK, not every PS/2 mouse will work with a PS/2>COM adapter, same thing with PS/2>AT. Never tried that myself, but I remember reading various threads here on Vogons saying that basically you need a mouse/keyboard that came with such an adapter to be sure that it will work.

**EDIT**: Heatsink. The CPU I have doesn't have the "Heatsink required" marking on it, so I'm assuming it is one of the later mobile versions, but I'd like to cool it anyway. Will a socket 7 heatsink fit socket 3? I have a few boxed away, otherwise I'll need to buy one.

I'd strongly suggest using a fan. Not sure about the dimensions, but the mounting is definitely different for Soc3 and Soc7. Most Soc7 coolers mount onto the socket, Soc3 mounts onto the CPU itself. You probably can use some sort of epoxy to permanently mount a Soc7 cooler though.

Another question: Would this board have post error codes like we see on later systems so I can track down the culprit if it doesn't post? I'm not sure I saw anything like that in the book.

Yes, it will. Your board uses an AMI WinBIOS.

Thanks for pointing out the issue with the 5x86. I find that odd, I've never heard of any issues with VLB at 33 mhz bus? I thought it was anything above 33 mhz. I haven't owned my 486 system for 20 years now though, I guess I could be wrong. I just paged through the manual for this motherboard though and it does have a VESA wait state jumper that it suggests using at bus speeds > 33mhz. Either way I should be able to get a DX2 or DX4 if need be. Or could I just run the 5x86 at 25x2 (25x2 would be 100mhz since the chip doubles the multiplier IIRC) ????

Either way, the AM5x86 133 isn't mission critical, it was just in the board when I bought it. It took me a long time to track down a board with a CR2032 and no PCI at a good price so I have what I have for now 😎 .

Re: mouse and keyboard I see I can get a serial mouse easily, but I was hoping a ps/2 -> AT adapter would work with the generic Dell rubberdomes I have laying around. If I have to buy them then so be it, just an expense I was hoping to avoid 😵 . Shouldn't be a big topic of concern though.

Re: Heatsink. I checked my board and sure enough the mounting points for a heatsink are off center unlike socket 7. Shame too because the socket and chip seems to be an exact match and I have a few s7 heatsink/fans. I guess I'll have to hunt down a clip on fan. Definitely don't want to use any permanent solutions for a quick fix, I could just run a DX2 66 without the heatsink until I can find one.

Re POST: The manual for my board shows Version 1.75, not sure what difference there is, but it does say it has the AMI WinBIOS, so I guess that means I don't need the post card for this specific board?

Ampera wrote:

Ah, yes, the infamous VLB compatibility issues. […]
Show full quote

Ah, yes, the infamous VLB compatibility issues.

PCI is definitely a nicer platform to work on with anything higher than a DX4. I suggest pick between a 5x86 and a DX4 for that one.

I also never said you can use ANYTHING. It's a case of comparing benchmarks and specs. I am more familiar with S3 and ATI cards myself, but if Phil says it's fast, he's probably right.

The missing memory chips on the graphics cards are for expansions. When I bought my Stealth SE I also bought extra memory chips, which can be expensive depending on your source. They fit into my budget perfectly fine, and I was happy to pay for them (as they are hard to find cheaper). They really only improve what resolutions and colour depths are attainable, so unless you are planning on using a CRT, you probably don't need to care.

The thing is called a POST card. If it says POST card and it has some 7 segment LED displays on it, it's probably a POST card.

Ah I specifically wanted to avoid PCI because I had a PCI 486 board back in the mid 90s and it was very troublesome. May just be a bad memory / early adopting PCI but I would rather just do a Pentium build around a PCI bus. I'll see if this board can handle the AM586 133 with or without enabling the vesa wait states. Again, I'll just grab a DX2 66 anyway as I'd like to make sure my game runs smoothly on a mid range socket 3 system.

I should have chosen my wording better, I just meant pick anything that looks half decent and upgrade later instead of spending a fortune for the parts I want right away. I think I'm going to go with a Cirrus Logic GD5428 or Orchid card with GD5430, I'm not sure which yet. There are a couple listed in the $30 range after shipping, I can live with that. I read in another thread that the trident cards have terrible video output, especially on LCDs (which I will be using until I can get a new CRT). As for resolution and color depth, this machine is going to be 100% DOS and Win 3.1. Windows 95 will never be installed on it, so I don't think I have to go too extreme with my graphics. I would just like to have decent video output and the system to run DOOM at a nice frame rate, I'm talking about 320x200 VGA there. Maybe some Sim2k which i think is a VBE 640x480.

jheronimus wrote:

AFAIK, not every PS/2 mouse will work with a PS/2>COM adapter, same thing with PS/2>AT. Never tried that myself, but I remember reading various threads here on Vogons saying that basically you need a mouse/keyboard that came with such an adapter to be sure that it will work.

Actually PS/2 <--> AT adapters should work without issue as they are electrically compatible. The PS/2 to Serial adapter however requires a mouse that supports serial protocol.

BeginnerGuy wrote:

Re: Heatsink. I checked my board and sure enough the mounting points for a heatsink are off center unlike socket 7. Shame too because the socket and chip seems to be an exact match and I have a few s7 heatsink/fans. I guess I'll have to hunt down a clip on fan. Definitely don't want to use any permanent solutions for a quick fix, I could just run a DX2 66 without the heatsink until I can find one.

For a socket 3 processor, you have a few options: the most common are the clip-on heatsinks, which you can easily find on eBay. There are others which require a frame between the CPU and the socket, but I have only seen a few of those. Also there are some which use a metal clip that attaches to the socket tabs.

If the BIOS has full support for it, you should have no problems with the 5x86 despite the board being VLB. But I'd definitely use a heatsink + fan with that CPU.

BeginnerGuy wrote:

Trident TD9440VL TGUI9440-1 (very cheap) Trident TGUI9400CXi (There is a seller with a bunch of these listed, different revision […]
Show full quote

Trident TD9440VL TGUI9440-1 (very cheap)
Trident TGUI9400CXi (There is a seller with a bunch of these listed, different revisions dated all the way to '95)
Orchid Kelvin "EZ-VLB"
Cirrus Logic GD5426 (looks untested)
Cirrus Logic EMA00400A30S-E1
Cirrus Logic CARDEX P/N 9208-50 GD5428 -- one of the fastest ones on Phils list and it says it works, 30 bucks.
Paradise EMA0041000B0 LBG-1000VL2M
PIC PVGA310 (untested)

I'd go for one of the CL 542x, the 5428 or 5430 probably. Even though it may not be a top performer there's only so much you can do with a 486.

If you can find an S3 VLB at a fair price. Go for it. I have an S3-805 and it has outperformed all CL-54xx-VLB cards that I have tried. Plus it has a sharper image. CL-54xx cards are nice, really nice, on CRT's. Using a flatscreen monitor with a 54xx-VLB card, makes a really crappy picture. For CL cards, you need eighter to go for CRT monitors or use a 5446-PCI. They are awesomme by the way.

Regarding controllers. They can be found cheap, even VLB versions. For a 425+ megabyte harddrive, then you only need a drive overlay for the rest of the capacity.

Soundcard.... You can not game without. And the cheapest solution that gives the most for doom specifically. Would be an Audician32 plus (ymf-718/719) card, plus a Dreamblaster-S1 daughterboard.

Shure AWE64 are a cheaper solution, yet the YMF had a real Adlib core, compared to the AWE that only emulates. Close yet sounds a bit off. Both solution can do wavetable/midi.

EDIT:
You can get some ideas of what I was saying, by checking out this Dx2-80 machine, that I have posted about, a couple of weeks ago.

Dx2or (Dextor) - A tale of a Dx2 Rebuild Log

I always liked the later CL chips, 5429 upward, 5426 and 5428 had a couple of bugs/glitches... and didn't like high bus speeds... 26 and 28 you may get them playing nice with VLB i/o at 33mhz but 40 is lucky and 50 is dreaming. Whereas sometimes with the others you can do 40 without even setting wait states, and if you really want to try burning them up run 50, 60, 66 (See ult 486 thread) .. but you'll likely need a heatsink on the chipset.

The nice thing about both the AM5x86/133 and the i486DX4/100 is that they use a 33MHz bus speed, so that tends to make quite a bit of difference.

From my experience, the Cirrus GD5428 works great at 33MHz (and is not appreciably faster in DOS than the ET4000/W32, but I'm told the ET4000/W32i is much faster, as are the S3 Vision and Trio chips and situationally the ATI Mach64). The 5429s I have will not play nice with my Micronics JX30GC for anything, so I haven't tested them. Both Cirrus chips will outrace the Trident 9440 by quite a bit, however.

For sound, yeah, I'll second the recommendation for the Audician32, or, equally good, an ESS Audiodrive (1868 or 1869, no reason to get one of the older ones).

I need to actually measure if there is a significant performance decrease from my FSB overclock to 40mhz. Of course instruction to instruction it will be slower, but I wonder if stuff like drive access, video card performance, etc. will be slower.

brostenen wrote:

If you can find an S3 VLB at a fair price. Go for it. I have an S3-805 and it has outperformed all CL-54xx-VLB cards that I have […]
Show full quote

If you can find an S3 VLB at a fair price. Go for it. I have an S3-805 and it has outperformed all CL-54xx-VLB cards that I have tried. Plus it has a sharper image. CL-54xx cards are nice, really nice, on CRT's. Using a flatscreen monitor with a 54xx-VLB card, makes a really crappy picture. For CL cards, you need eighter to go for CRT monitors or use a 5446-PCI. They are awesomme by the way.

Regarding controllers. They can be found cheap, even VLB versions. For a 425+ megabyte harddrive, then you only need a drive overlay for the rest of the capacity.

Soundcard.... You can not game without. And the cheapest solution that gives the most for doom specifically. Would be an Audician32 plus (ymf-718/719) card, plus a Dreamblaster-S1 daughterboard.

Shure AWE64 are a cheaper solution, yet the YMF had a real Adlib core, compared to the AWE that only emulates. Close yet sounds a bit off. Both solution can do wavetable/midi.

EDIT:
You can get some ideas of what I was saying, by checking out this Dx2-80 machine, that I have posted about, a couple of weeks ago.

Dx2or (Dextor) - A tale of a Dx2 Rebuild Log

Using XTIDE should also allow larger HDD sizes. You just need a PROM and a place to socket it (usually a network card). It will extend your BIOS to whatever the physical limits are of the controller. If it supports LBA, you can probably use a 120GB drive if you want.

TheMobRules wrote:

Actually PS/2 <--> AT adapters should work without issue as they are electrically compatible. The PS/2 to Serial adapter however […]
Show full quote

jheronimus wrote:

AFAIK, not every PS/2 mouse will work with a PS/2>COM adapter, same thing with PS/2>AT. Never tried that myself, but I remember reading various threads here on Vogons saying that basically you need a mouse/keyboard that came with such an adapter to be sure that it will work.

Actually PS/2 <--> AT adapters should work without issue as they are electrically compatible. The PS/2 to Serial adapter however requires a mouse that supports serial protocol.

For a socket 3 processor, you have a few options: the most common are the clip-on heatsinks, which you can easily find on eBay. There are others which require a frame between the CPU and the socket, but I have only seen a few of those. Also there are some which use a metal clip that attaches to the socket tabs.

If the BIOS has full support for it, you should have no problems with the 5x86 despite the board being VLB. But I'd definitely use a heatsink + fan with that CPU.

I've ordered a PS/2 to AT adapter, it was only 3 bucks so no harm done if there are issues. I've finally got a baby AT system coming (MMX 166) that I'll be swapping the 486 into, so I'll have use for the keyboard adapter right away.

I've also just ordered a small 486 clip on heatsink with a brushless fan. I think the fan is 40mm, so if it's loud I have a few I can swap it with on hand. I didn't see any heatsinks that would line up with the mounts that are on my board, they must have been quite scarce at the time.

Board definitely has full support for the CPU per the manual. Original owner also definitely ran the 5x86 133 with 16MB 30 pin simms, all of the jumper settings and items were highlighted in the manual. I even have their receipt dated 9/28/1996 and a little ad from the store. Owner got a full set up minus a hard drive and case for $117.70. You could grab a 486 motherboard for $27, or one with a DX2-66 for $50! I think that's pretty neat. I had a Pentium 133 in late 96 but that would have been an awesome deal if I had cash to blow. maybe I'll run it exactly as they did. I'm not sure if they ran any VLB cards though. I do recall seeing many VLB systems with only 16 bit ISA cards running back then come to think of it.

brostenen wrote:

If you can find an S3 VLB at a fair price. Go for it. I have an S3-805 and it has outperformed all CL-54xx-VLB cards that I have […]
Show full quote

If you can find an S3 VLB at a fair price. Go for it. I have an S3-805 and it has outperformed all CL-54xx-VLB cards that I have tried. Plus it has a sharper image. CL-54xx cards are nice, really nice, on CRT's. Using a flatscreen monitor with a 54xx-VLB card, makes a really crappy picture. For CL cards, you need eighter to go for CRT monitors or use a 5446-PCI. They are awesomme by the way.

Regarding controllers. They can be found cheap, even VLB versions. For a 425+ megabyte harddrive, then you only need a drive overlay for the rest of the capacity.

Soundcard.... You can not game without. And the cheapest solution that gives the most for doom specifically. Would be an Audician32 plus (ymf-718/719) card, plus a Dreamblaster-S1 daughterboard.

Shure AWE64 are a cheaper solution, yet the YMF had a real Adlib core, compared to the AWE that only emulates. Close yet sounds a bit off. Both solution can do wavetable/midi.

EDIT:
You can get some ideas of what I was saying, by checking out this Dx2-80 machine, that I have posted about, a couple of weeks ago.

Dx2or (Dextor) - A tale of a Dx2 Rebuild Log

I'm looking all over for S3 cards, I see a couple S3-805 cards I can get overseas for around $50 USD shipped. A bit on the high side for me but I AM going to be running an LCD for quite some time until I have ample space to get a CRT. Now I'm a bit apprehensive about getting the CL cards, though I do have a VGA to HDMI scaling adapter that may or may not clean the image up a bit if need be, just tedious to get it hooked up to the monitor.

Are you saying 425 MB hard drive a bios limit on these boards and I'll need software/TSR to run a larger drive? These are the drives I have on hand that I've recently tested:

Caviar 31600 1.8gb
Seagate st3391A 341mb
Toshiba MK 234FC 101 mb
Quantum Fireball 1GB

I was hoping to run the caviar 31600, I don't know how long that old seagate will last but it's fun to listen to it roar 😎. I'll give your thread a read in the morning and see what I can learn, thanks.

BitWrangler wrote:

I always liked the later CL chips, 5429 upward, 5426 and 5428 had a couple of bugs/glitches... and didn't like high bus speeds... 26 and 28 you may get them playing nice with VLB i/o at 33mhz but 40 is lucky and 50 is dreaming. Whereas sometimes with the others you can do 40 without even setting wait states, and if you really want to try burning them up run 50, 60, 66 (See ult 486 thread) .. but you'll likely need a heatsink on the chipset.

Hmm I have two I'm "watching" on ebay that have the CL 5430 in them, one is an Orchid brand card I was thinking I may grab. I may fool around with trying to jack the CPU up to 40mhz because I remember hearing about how epic this chip was at 160 back in the day. I have no need for that performance at all though, so it wouldn't be a 24/7 thing. I've heard they can do 50x4 but that's insane 🤣.

jade_angel wrote:

The nice thing about both the AM5x86/133 and the i486DX4/100 is that they use a 33MHz bus speed, so that tends to make quite a bit of difference.

From my experience, the Cirrus GD5428 works great at 33MHz (and is not appreciably faster in DOS than the ET4000/W32, but I'm told the ET4000/W32i is much faster, as are the S3 Vision and Trio chips and situationally the ATI Mach64). The 5429s I have will not play nice with my Micronics JX30GC for anything, so I haven't tested them. Both Cirrus chips will outrace the Trident 9440 by quite a bit, however.

For sound, yeah, I'll second the recommendation for the Audician32, or, equally good, an ESS Audiodrive (1868 or 1869, no reason to get one of the older ones).

Wasn't there a DX50 that ran at 50 mhz bus? My memory is vague with socket 3 chips, I was running a ps/2 286 when my father brought home our 486. I didn't have much time on that system even after I inherited it so it's a hazy time period.

I was thinking I would start by grabing a GD5430, but I want to run it on an LCD and I'm hearing some of these can produce some seriously fuzzy output on an LCD. On the other hand, I do have a VGA -> HDMI scaler that I intend to use for capture, that may clean it up a bit but i'd have to go from VGA -> HDMI -> DVI to get it on my sony 4:3 LCD.

I may grab an ESS Audiodrive to add to the collection, but I left sound out because I have a few to choose from here with me. I have a CT1600, CT3600, Aztech Washington 16, Aztech Galaxy Basic, and a couple others. I may grab a SB16 and run it as the sole sound card, I use the CT3600 and CT1600 in my p3 rig.

Ampera wrote:

I need to actually measure if there is a significant performance decrease from my FSB overclock to 40mhz. Of course instruction to instruction it will be slower, but I wonder if stuff like drive access, video card performance, etc. will be slower.

That would be interesting to know, I'm extremely skeptical of much change in drive access, but if the graphics is running without wait states you may be getting a bit more out of it.

gdjacobs wrote:

Using XTIDE should also allow larger HDD sizes. You just need a PROM and a place to socket it (usually a network card). It will extend your BIOS to whatever the physical limits are of the controller. If it supports LBA, you can probably use a 120GB drive if you want.

I searched that up real quick, that sounds pretty neat. That would be a fun project to bring my old PS/2 back to life.. Assuming it's still in my Mom's attic after all these years.

Not sure I want to get into anything like that right now. I could have sworn our old Keydata 486 machine came with a 1.8GB drive and that was purchased in 1992 or 1993, either that or my dad added it and got it running later. Not sure how it was partitioned though. Let me know the deal on the hard drives, I figured any old VLB card would have no problem with a 1.8GB drive.

edit: My memory of those times is obviously bad. Nevermind, he says he put a 341MB seagate drive in it himself and nobody had 2GB at that time 😢 .. I have that drive here in the original box, it came with a VHS tape too.. that's missing though 😒. The Caviar drive is dated 1996, that was probably out of my pentium system.

Come to think of it I don't really need much space, especially if I can get it networked with my win98 machine. I did want to install Daggerfall though and that can be massive, and i'm mainly just apprehensive about how long this old seagate drive will last.

gdjacobs wrote:

brostenen wrote:

If you can find an S3 VLB at a fair price. Go for it. I have an S3-805 and it has outperformed all CL-54xx-VLB cards that I have […]
Show full quote

If you can find an S3 VLB at a fair price. Go for it. I have an S3-805 and it has outperformed all CL-54xx-VLB cards that I have tried. Plus it has a sharper image. CL-54xx cards are nice, really nice, on CRT's. Using a flatscreen monitor with a 54xx-VLB card, makes a really crappy picture. For CL cards, you need eighter to go for CRT monitors or use a 5446-PCI. They are awesomme by the way.

Regarding controllers. They can be found cheap, even VLB versions. For a 425+ megabyte harddrive, then you only need a drive overlay for the rest of the capacity.

Soundcard.... You can not game without. And the cheapest solution that gives the most for doom specifically. Would be an Audician32 plus (ymf-718/719) card, plus a Dreamblaster-S1 daughterboard.

Shure AWE64 are a cheaper solution, yet the YMF had a real Adlib core, compared to the AWE that only emulates. Close yet sounds a bit off. Both solution can do wavetable/midi.

EDIT:
You can get some ideas of what I was saying, by checking out this Dx2-80 machine, that I have posted about, a couple of weeks ago.

Dx2or (Dextor) - A tale of a Dx2 Rebuild Log

Using XTIDE should also allow larger HDD sizes. You just need a PROM and a place to socket it (usually a network card). It will extend your BIOS to whatever the physical limits are of the controller. If it supports LBA, you can probably use a 120GB drive if you want.

For those that want to go the hardware way, have an eprom burner and want to sacrifice an ISA slot. Then it's a great project. Me on the other hand, want to use as few cards as possible, and I never use netcards in any of my builds. As I have no need for network cards at all in my builds.

BeginnerGuy wrote:

Are you saying 425 MB hard drive a bios limit on these boards and I'll need software/TSR to run a larger drive? These are the dr […]
Show full quote

Are you saying 425 MB hard drive a bios limit on these boards and I'll need software/TSR to run a larger drive? These are the drives I have on hand that I've recently tested:

Caviar 31600 1.8gb
Seagate st3391A 341mb
Toshiba MK 234FC 101 mb
Quantum Fireball 1GB

I was hoping to run the caviar 31600, I don't know how long that old seagate will last but it's fun to listen to it roar 😎. I'll give your thread a read in the morning and see what I can learn, thanks.

Yes... Back in the first half to mid-90's, the first BIOS limit arose. Around 425mb. As an example... In my Dx2-80 build, I have this 16gb drive, and without any drive overlay, I can only partition 425mb in all, or something like that. You can still see and partition those drives, you can just not make use of the last of the space without eighter an XT-Bios, drive overlay software or a controllercard that can handle this. You'r board might have support for the 425 limit. You just have to assemble the machine and try it out, to be 100% shure on this limit.

Personally, I go for the software solution, as this was what I used back in 1995. When I got my first +425mb harddrive. A nice 800mb TrailBlazer drive. I have used drive overlay's on CF cards too, and this works well. Just need the right software for the right drive. Look after one on Phils Computerlab webpage.

Found this S3-Vlb card. Not tested, yet looks ok at a quick look at the pictures. Perhaps this might do the trick.
Just wanted you to know, that a cheap one is to be found, if you like to take a gamble.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Miro-Crystal-10SD-VL- … ysAAOSwLdNZ24ia

brostenen wrote:

For those that want to go the hardware way, have an eprom burner and want to sacrifice an ISA slot. Then it's a great project. Me on the other hand, want to use as few cards as possible, and I never use netcards in any of my builds. As I have no need for network cards at all in my builds.

Actually, there were VLB i/o controllers with onboard LBA BIOSes, but they only probably got you to 8GB annnd, they were often sold cheaper with no ROM installed as regular i/o cards. So if you get your hands on one of those you can stick an up to date ROM in and not worry about losing another slot. Well unless you had onboard i/o already.

There's a good summary of disk size limits here: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Large-Disk-HOWTO-4.html

BitWrangler wrote:

brostenen wrote:

For those that want to go the hardware way, have an eprom burner and want to sacrifice an ISA slot. Then it's a great project. Me on the other hand, want to use as few cards as possible, and I never use netcards in any of my builds. As I have no need for network cards at all in my builds.

Actually, there were VLB i/o controllers with onboard LBA BIOSes, but they only probably got you to 8GB annnd, they were often sold cheaper with no ROM installed as regular i/o cards. So if you get your hands on one of those you can stick an up to date ROM in and not worry about losing another slot. Well unless you had onboard i/o already.

Yup... I bought one of those in 1995. "Iwill SIDE jr Pro"