VOGONS


Reply 20 of 29, by F2bnp

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I concur that a K6-2 400 is a pretty nice middle ground. It's a little faster than the MMX 233 for Win9x 3D games and it is overall quite a bit faster. Plus, it is easy to find and can run on a 66MHz FSB using a 2x multiplier which is interpreted as a 6x multiplier.

Reply 21 of 29, by alvaro84

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bergqvistjl wrote:

I've heard that performance suffers when using more than 64MB ram in a Socket 7 system, is this the case with a P3 System? But then wouldn't Windows98 performance suffer if I switched to that, rather than just DOS?

It depends on the chipset and the amount of cache. Later (Super) Socket 7 boards can typically cache 128MB or even more if they have more than 512kB of cache. Over this amount K6-2 performance suffers.

K6-3, 2+, 3+ can help a lot with their on-die cache which is not this restricted. The same is true for the P2/P3 which don't rely on any motherboard at all (the boards don't have any) and can cache their entire memory range "in house".

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May God have mercy on our dirty little hearts

Reply 22 of 29, by Rhuwyn

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Lots of solid suggestions from people, but I don't think they are keeping in mind that you are only asking for the last generation of DOS games, which as far as I know there shouldn't be any that are speed sensitive. I would say as long as you have an ISA slot for a good DOS/midi sound card based on your own tastes you should be fine with what you have. The only reason you would need one of the tweakable options mentioned would be if you were going to play earlier dos games which didn't have good compatibility.

In short I would say a Pentium 233 MMX would be fine, but in order to not leave any performance on the table to go with a minimum K6-2 with a correct amount of cachable RAM so it doesn't slow down or Pentium2. That being said there isn't any reason to downgrade what you have unless you decide you need to use this particular system to run speed sensitive DOS games. I wouldn't worry about a 3D Accelerator unless you specifically want to play a game that supports a particular card in DOS, in which case you use whatever 3d Acclerator is best for that particular game. For instance a PCX2 based 3d Accelerator for Mechwarrior 2, or a Voodoo1 for certain others. They are definately more at home in a Windows machine but there are a couple of games that could benefit from them.

Reply 23 of 29, by badmojo

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Rhuwyn wrote:

Lots of solid suggestions from people, but I don't think they are keeping in mind that you are only asking for the last generation of DOS games, which as far as I know there shouldn't be any that are speed sensitive.

Yes this point is being missed! A P233MMX won't cut it for SVGA Blood, Quake, etc, and a fast PIII with a Voodoo3 (for example) also lets you play Halflife, etc, so why not aim for the stars and get as much out of the system as you can?

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Reply 24 of 29, by appiah4

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badmojo wrote:
Rhuwyn wrote:

Lots of solid suggestions from people, but I don't think they are keeping in mind that you are only asking for the last generation of DOS games, which as far as I know there shouldn't be any that are speed sensitive.

Yes this point is being missed! A P233MMX won't cut it for SVGA Blood, Quake, etc, and a fast PIII with a Voodoo3 (for example) also lets you play Halflife, etc, so why not aim for the stars and get as much out of the system as you can?

Well I have both systems and both have their charm; the main build goal for me was period correctness at first but then the MMX became a K62 400 with Voodoo2 SLI and all of a sudden the only difference between the two was 98 vs Me and AWE64 vs MX300. They still feel completely different.. If I can find a faster Katmai for cheap that will differentiate them further I feel,,

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Reply 25 of 29, by bergqvistjl

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Rhuwyn wrote:

Lots of solid suggestions from people, but I don't think they are keeping in mind that you are only asking for the last generation of DOS games, which as far as I know there shouldn't be any that are speed sensitive. I would say as long as you have an ISA slot for a good DOS/midi sound card based on your own tastes you should be fine with what you have. The only reason you would need one of the tweakable options mentioned would be if you were going to play earlier dos games which didn't have good compatibility.

In short I would say a Pentium 233 MMX would be fine, but in order to not leave any performance on the table to go with a minimum K6-2 with a correct amount of cachable RAM so it doesn't slow down or Pentium2. That being said there isn't any reason to downgrade what you have unless you decide you need to use this particular system to run speed sensitive DOS games. I wouldn't worry about a 3D Accelerator unless you specifically want to play a game that supports a particular card in DOS, in which case you use whatever 3d Acclerator is best for that particular game. For instance a PCX2 based 3d Accelerator for Mechwarrior 2, or a Voodoo1 for certain others. They are definately more at home in a Windows machine but there are a couple of games that could benefit from them.

The games I want to play specifically are:

  • Privateer 2: The Darkening
  • Duke Nukem 3D
  • IndyCar Racing II (Rendition version)
  • NASCAR Racing 2 (Rendition & 3DFX versions)

I don't want to play ANY Win9x games. I have a separate machine for that.

Reply 26 of 29, by appiah4

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I tend to stick to Socket 7 for DOS exclusive systems, so I would advise that, period correctness and all. Again, playing Duke Nukem 3D on your list at 640x480 or higher will require at the very least a 233MMX, but a K6-2 400 will be better.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 27 of 29, by BitWrangler

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A K6-2 400 is so friendly, it will hump your leg. Main point is that they have a plethora of multiplier settings, and tolerate a wide range of bus speeds.

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Reply 28 of 29, by kanecvr

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BitWrangler wrote:

A K6-2 400 is so friendly, it will hump your leg.

🤣 you made me spit coffee on my keyboard 🤣

So, so true. On the flip side, some configurations can be a pain in the butt to set up. OP wants to play late dos games - I use a K6-II+ rig for that:

AMD K6-II+ @400MHz (6x66) - will also run at 450MHz (6x75)
Lucky Star 5V-1A (VIA VPX, 256kb l2, up to 512MB of ram, can cache 256MB with a K6-II or pentium MMX and up to 768MB with a K6-III)
128MB PC-100 SDRAM 2x64MB quad banked
Eagle S3 Virge 4MB
STB 3dfx Voodoo 2 12MB
Guillemot Maxi Gamer 64 (ES1868+Dream 9250 for general midi)

It runs the following games great:
- Quake (DOS) 640x480 ~ 30 fps in timedemo 1, 35 fps when running at 450MHz
- GL_Quake (win9x, glide ~40 fps @ 800x600)
- Duke 3D SVGA 800x600
- Carmageddon 3dfx (DOS)
- Tomb Raider (3dfx or software, they both run great)
- Doom I and II (DOS)
- Heretic (DOS)
- Hexen (DOS)
- Hexen II 3dfx (DOS)
- Descent (DOS)
- Descent with 3dfx patch
- Descent 2 @ 800x600 (univbe loaded, s3spd loaded, -ForceVesa or -SuperHighRes)
- Descent 2 3dfx under win98
- Red Alert DOS
- Command and Conquer DOS
- Dark Reign (DOS)
- Terminal Velocity (DOS)
- KKND (DOS)
- Magic Carpet (3dfx)
- Populous 3 the beginning (Win98 3dfx)
- Quake 2 (win9x)

Of course, all of these games run great on a pentium II/III machine as well.

Reply 29 of 29, by Batyra

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Personally I use late "non-super" socket 7 with 66fsb (Gigabyte GA-586 ATX). At first with P MMX 233 - now I decided to use Cyrix MII 333 - besause it is the fastest that can be used in this mobo.
For graphic card I use Tseng ET6100 (previously I used ET6000) and Virge GX - that depends.

If use Voodoo I would choose some nice V1 to play gl quake etc.

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