VOGONS


First post, by FeedingDragon

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Not sure when it started, but by the time of the PIII, chips started having their multiplier locked. The exception to this seems to be the mobile versions of the chips. With the AMD line, in many cases, the mobile version could be placed in a desktop without issue, as they used the same socket. However, I'm trying to get control (via software,) of both the FSB & Multiplier in DOS (not windows,) and the only program that runs in DOS that I've found is SMB which is limited to specific Intel chipsets. Only, mobile Intel CPUs have their own socket (not 370 or slot-1,) and there doesn't seem to be any sort of adapter that I can find.

So, I guess what I'm looking for is Socket 370/Slot 1 CPU's that have unlocked multipliers, an adapter to place a mobile Intel chip into either a Slot-1 or my Slotket adapter, or a DOS capable program that can adjust AMD compatible chipsets on the fly. Yes, I know of SetFSB, but that is a Windows only program.

Thank you 😀

Feeding Dragon

Reply 1 of 13, by meljor

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I think the easiest way is extending the jumpers to switches and place these in the frontside of your case. But i don't know how a p3 or Athlon behaves when you change these while the pc is running...

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Reply 2 of 13, by Falcosoft

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You can use my little program called SSTEP under DOS to set multiplier on Pentium chips that already support speedstep:
http://falcosoft.hu/dos_softwares.html#sstep
On the AMD side I have also multiplier adjusting DOS programs for Athlon 4 mobile/Athlon64/Turion64 and Phenom I/II processors:
http://falcosoft.hu/dos_softwares.html#a64lowp
http://falcosoft.hu/dos_softwares.html#pwr

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Reply 4 of 13, by Falcosoft

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No. As I have written these utilities can only solve the real time multiplier adjustment problem under DOS (where applicable).

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Reply 5 of 13, by FeedingDragon

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Falcosoft wrote:
You can use my little program called SSTEP under DOS to set multiplier on Pentium chips that already support speedstep: http://f […]
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You can use my little program called SSTEP under DOS to set multiplier on Pentium chips that already support speedstep:
http://falcosoft.hu/dos_softwares.html#sstep
On the AMD side I have also multiplier adjusting DOS programs for Athlon 4 mobile/Athlon64/Turion64 and Phenom I/II processors:
http://falcosoft.hu/dos_softwares.html#a64lowp
http://falcosoft.hu/dos_softwares.html#pwr

Those will come in handy if I ever find what I'm looking for. The problem with speedstep is that it is used with Intel's mobile processors, and I haven't found any of those that will fit in a Slot-1 or Socket 370. As for the multiplier adjustment for AMD, switching to AMD would break me away from my Intel chipset which also moves me away from being able to adjust FSB in DOS instead of Windows. Thank you, especially fr the speedstep software if I manage to find an unlocked Intel chip 😀

Feeding Dragon

Reply 6 of 13, by .legaCy

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meljor wrote:

I think the easiest way is extending the jumpers to switches and place these in the frontside of your case. But i don't know how a p3 or Athlon behaves when you change these while the pc is running...

I thought something about it, but as far as i know(which means almost nothing) it would require the system to be powered off to do it.

Reply 7 of 13, by gerwin

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An unlocked intel PII/III still does not support changing the Multiplier with software, except for mobiles with speedstep, as already mentioned. But speedstep in that generation does not mean that the multipliers you want will be available. For example: the Mobile Pentium III 600 with speedstep only goes down to 500MHz.
(I actually have this particular chip soldered on a rare socket 370 adapter PCB. But it was dead on arrival.)

Have you considered a VIA C3 Nehemiah processor? It is not as fast per clock as an intel Pentium but it does have the features you desire.

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Reply 8 of 13, by LSS10999

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gerwin wrote:

An unlocked intel PII/III still does not support changing the Multiplier with software, except for mobiles with speedstep, as already mentioned. But speedstep in that generation does not mean that the multipliers you want will be available. For example: the Mobile Pentium III 600 with speedstep only goes down to 500MHz.
(I actually have this particular chip soldered on a rare socket 370 adapter PCB. But it was dead on arrival.)

Have you considered a VIA C3 Nehemiah processor? It is not as fast per clock as an intel Pentium but it does have the features you desire.

I used to have a VIA C3 1.2A (Nehemiah) running on ASUS CUV4X and could manage to get the CPU down to 533MHz (133x4) with the SetMul tool to let Thor's Hammer Trilogy running properly. The CPU can be installed on a Coppermine-oriented Socket 370 board like that one without a Tualatin adapter. (You probably can get even lower if your board support setting the FSB down to 66MHz).

However, the VIA CPU is way too sluggish for anything other than DOS, so far that even Windows XP Visual Styles couldn't load because the CPU could not initialize it on time, and the system takes forever to respond to anything. Coppermines and Tualatins of even lower clock speeds never had such an issue. Originally I thought it might be the L1 cache not loaded as the BIOS reported no cache, but someone pointed out I might be wrong as the processor may not be reporting it regardless of status.

EDIT: Mobile Athlon XP (Socket A) also features a way to set multiplier at runtime, with a default boot-up multiplier of 6x (tested on an EP-8KTA3PRO). However, the ability is only available for Windows via CPUMSR, though the system might hang if the multiplier is set too high for the board/chipset to handle.

Reply 10 of 13, by FeedingDragon

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gerwin wrote:

An unlocked intel PII/III still does not support changing the Multiplier with software, except for mobiles with speedstep, as already mentioned. But speedstep in that generation does not mean that the multipliers you want will be available. For example: the Mobile Pentium III 600 with speedstep only goes down to 500MHz.
(I actually have this particular chip soldered on a rare socket 370 adapter PCB. But it was dead on arrival.)

Have you considered a VIA C3 Nehemiah processor? It is not as fast per clock as an intel Pentium but it does have the features you desire.

Just been looking into that... The only, non-mobile, unlocked PII/III processors that could be found are special tech releases and extremely rare. No way I could afford one on the extremely unlikely event it became available. Not saying that public release, non-mobile, PII/III chips definitely do not exist, but I coulddn't find any.

As for the mobile processors, the multiplier adjustment range varies from chip to chip. I've seen them go as low as 2x, while others wouldn't go below 7 or 8. This, along with not remembering a limitation of my current MB correctly, ends the tentative plans I had made. As it stands now, I can chose between 700 Mhz, 933 Mhz, & 1400 Mhz (without overclocking.) At best, with a CPU that can go down to 2x (the VIA C3 only goes down to 5x,) I could go down to 100 Mhz. With the C3 I could go down to 250 Mhz.

My Voodoo system was primarily designed around a set of Voodoo cards I had. It was also meant to run some of my favorite 3dfx games. Some of them, back when they were new, chugged rather sluggishly on a 600 Mhz system I had then, which is why I went for the 1.4 Ghz I have now. Note: They run just great 😀 I also wanted it to be able to go back as far as possible into the DOS era as well. So, it does what I originally wanted it to, I was just looking at options to extend this, if any.

All that being said. Switching to the VIA C3 might actually be an option. If it will actually run at 50 Mhz FSB. Between dropping the FSB to 50 Mhz, the Multiplier to 5x, and disabling the cache (any/all,) I should be able to get old DOS compatibility to be rather extensive. The only issue there is, for the 100Mhz FSB (the fastest my MB can handle without overclocking,) the C3 only goes up to 900 Mhz. There is a C3 1.4 Ghz chip, but it uses 133Mhz FSB with 10.5x Multiplier. I honestly don't know the effects on a chip if the FSB & multiplier are changed but result in the same final speed (switching 133 x 10.5 to 100 x 14 for example.) That would require running the multiplier change on every boot as well (changing it from the HW 10.5 to SW 14.)

Feeding Dragon

Reply 11 of 13, by gerwin

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FeedingDragon wrote:

Just been looking into that... The only, non-mobile, unlocked PII/III processors that could be found are special tech releases and extremely rare.

This is true for the Pentium III. Only the ES / QS test specimens may have a free multiplier. Changing it requires a reboot though. The retail Pentium II before august 1998 was still unlocked in the same way. But generally these max out at 400MHz, so slower then VIA C3 Nehemiah. The top performance of the C3 is comparable like below, but this is with the help of a higher FSB:

Celeron 'Coppermine-128' QBC6ES, 128kB L2 - 7.5 x 100 = 750 MHz: 4987 3DMarks
VIA C3 Nehemiah+ ( 6.9.8 ) - 9.0 x 133 = 1200 MHz: 4814 3DMarks
Source

IMO it remains a compromise. I even have an unlocked Tualeron to play with, but find that my retro sweet spot is within the speed range of the Nehemiah, so I use that one more often.

FeedingDragon wrote:

As for the mobile processors, the multiplier adjustment range varies from chip to chip. I've seen them go as low as 2x, while others wouldn't go below 7 or 8.

Which speedstep capable processor can go to 2.0x?

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Reply 12 of 13, by FeedingDragon

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I was listing 2x as the lowest I saw for all processors, not just Intel. I believe the 2x I saw was a K6? It was an AMD. I remember it could do 2x - ?x (don't remember the upper limit off hand,) in 0.5x increments, "not" including 2.5x for some reason.

Feeding Dragon

Reply 13 of 13, by gerwin

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Yes, the AMD K6-2+ and K6-III+, which are 'mobiles', can do 2.0x to 6.0x like that, without reboot. Pentium MMX and Early Pentium II can also do 2.0x as a minimum, reboot required. Cyrix 5x86 and 6x86(L) can do 1.0x. Fun stuff!
For retro use; cache disabling options are important as well.

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