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Smallest Socket 7 Motherboard

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Reply 20 of 44, by shamino

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It's probably not as small as the industrial SBCs, but I've pondered something similar for an Intel NV430VX that I have stored. It came out of a Packard Bell S680 that I found set out for trash many years ago. I kept the parts but I didn't keep the case. Maybe I should have.

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It supports Pentium MMX chips. 430VX chipset, onboard S3 Trio64V+ which is compatible with almost everything written in the 90s.
It does not have onboard sound or LAN. LAN might be nice, but sound is the critical thing missing.

It's an LPX board, so it needs a riser to install a sound card. But that could be a bonus since it places the sound card parallel to the motherboard, not poking up at 90 degrees.
I have the original riser, and it just so happens that the lowest slot on the riser is ISA. I'm not saying I want to cut it up, but I wonder if it would work if I cut it up. Or maybe there are smaller risers out there which are compatible. If it just had one ISA slot, it would be very low profile.

The remaining challenges would be choosing a small PSU (probably modify a SFF ATX type), figure out the drives and somehow put together a case. I'm afraid the optical drive would bulk it up a lot.
And when it's all finished, I'd probably go back to a full size computer anyway. 😀

A small, consolized DOS gaming PC might be appealing under a TV set. But that raises more questions about video output and input peripherals.

---
[EDIT:] I just looked at the NV430VX manual and noticed it supports the <CTRL><ALT><+> and <CTRL><ALT><-> key combos to act as a turbo/deturbo function. It says deturbo "emulates a 23MHz AT".
It also claims to have protection against blowing out the PS/2 ports if you hotplug the keyboard/mouse.
Apparently they also offered onboard Crystal CS4236 sound, which it says is OPL3 SBPro compatible. Mine from the PBell doesn't have that.

Reply 21 of 44, by noshutdown

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i think the easiest small socket7 boards to find are some cheap sis530 oem boards. they used to pretty plentiful in the dump yard here, but i wasn't interested in these slow boards without agp slot so i didn't bother identify factory and model.

Reply 23 of 44, by dionb

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shamino wrote:
It's probably not as small as the industrial SBCs, but I've pondered something similar for an Intel NV430VX that I have stored. […]
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It's probably not as small as the industrial SBCs, but I've pondered something similar for an Intel NV430VX that I have stored. It came out of a Packard Bell S680 that I found set out for trash many years ago. I kept the parts but I didn't keep the case. Maybe I should have.

[...]

It supports Pentium MMX chips. 430VX chipset, onboard S3 Trio64V+ which is compatible with almost everything written in the 90s.
It does not have onboard sound or LAN. LAN might be nice, but sound is the critical thing missing.

It's an LPX board, so it needs a riser to install a sound card. But that could be a bonus since it places the sound card parallel to the motherboard, not poking up at 90 degrees.
I have the original riser, and it just so happens that the lowest slot on the riser is ISA. I'm not saying I want to cut it up, but I wonder if it would work if I cut it up. Or maybe there are smaller risers out there which are compatible. If it just had one ISA slot, it would be very low profile.

Ah, the Orlando. It came in two versions and two revisions, S3 Trio (PB682 Orlando) or Virge (PB683 Orlando3D) and MMX support (2.8V VRM) or not. None of the PB boards I supported (EU market) had sound implemented, they were shipped with various options, usually an Aztech sound (AZT2320-based OPL3 SBPro clone) + modem (Rockwell) combo card.

I'd suggest not sawing that LPX riser, instead get a 1-slot version of eBay or similar. Note that LPX isn't quite as standardized as AT and ATX, and one of the issues is that the distance from LPX back panel to the backplates of the (ISA/PCI) cards can vary, so different risers and cases can be a few mm further forwards or backwards than others - but this is only an issue with ready-made cases; if you're messing around yourself that's not so relevant.

The remaining challenges would be choosing a small PSU (probably modify a SFF ATX type), figure out the drives and somehow put together a case. I'm afraid the optical drive would bulk it up a lot.
And when it's all finished, I'd probably go back to a full size computer anyway. 😀

'Drop the optical' would be the obvious solution here 😉

A small, consolized DOS gaming PC might be appealing under a TV set. But that raises more questions about video output and input peripherals.

Most TVs have VGA and 3.5mm audio in, so video shouldn't be a problem.

Input... some PB680 boards had USB, some didn't (don't remember which models had which). If there's USB it's easy. If not, active PS/2 to USB converter(s) if USB peripherals are desired.

Reply 24 of 44, by kool kitty89

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The Asus P5A-B is just about the same size (and layout) as the GA-5AA, same weird under-socket mounting screw, too. (and benefit of the socket not blocking any of the expansion slots).

But what about this weird thing?

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/z7IAAOSwUVFcWSGX/s-l1600.jpg

(I can post some better pics of my own, later)

It looks like a mini itx board, and one could even assume it's actually some sort of Media GX/Geode implementation (using a generic Socket 7 ZIF assembly), but the additional I/O chips don't match that (normal Socket 7/370 late 90s era sound and network I/O chips) and beneath that serial number sticker is an XCel2000 logo on the heatsink ... which normally got used by PCChips S370/slot-1 boards using SiS chipsets, but going further and peeling off that heatsink shows it's an SiS5598 chip (which is easy to guess given how few 1-chip S7 chipsets were made). On top of that is has what looks like a PCI-e aux 6-pin power connector as its sole power source, and the key configuration is the same but I'm not sure if the pinout is compatible. (same goes for dedicated 20 pin ATX to 6-pin adapters)

or for that matter, modern 24-pin ATX to 6 pin adapters
but that seems to be a proprietary modern HP sort of deal (might be a Dell thing too, since their older proprietary 20+6 pin proprietary ATX system PSUs were used by both Dell and HP).
There's no obvious brand-name manufacturer logo/name printed on the board, so I assume it's not really a Dell/HP/Compaq deal.

It might be some oddball thin client board or something in that same vein, but doesn't match the typical client form factor of that era either, but the integrated ethernet adapter seems to maybe indicate that sort of role. (it's got onboard video and sound outputs too. Plus what looks like the female end of an IDE port, implying either using a female to male IDE cable or direct plug-in mount of some compact HDD or SSD module (I don't think it's a PCMCIA header ... and it's 40 pins like IDE). Short little female to male IDE cables seem to be common enough, presumably normally used as extender cables, but would be about right for something like this.

I haven't been able to find any documentation of this board so far and don't really want to try powering it on without knowing what that power connector pinout is. It'd make a neat, super compact portable/small footprint DOS gaming rig though ... the sound chip seems to be a decent SB-compatible one too, but the lack of game port is a limiting factor. (keyboard+mouse games would work fine, and those PS/2 key-mapping gamepads might work well enough for some flight/space sim games with keyboard support ... not sure if there's any mouse-emulator joysticks out there, but that'd be neat ... come to think of it, given the much lower CPU overhead for reading PS/2 or serial mouse ports vs analog joystick polling, I wonder why that wasn't actually a big thing back in the 286~486 era ... and the N64 gamepad uses a ball-mouse style optical mechanism for its X/Y axis)
There's also USB, so plenty of options for windows compatible games, but that's also limited to games supporting software rendering given the chipset.

Also, I assume the "300/75/2.9V" sticker on the sound port block refers to the CPU that was intended to be installed ... namely a Cyrix/IBM 6x86MX/MII PR300 at 3x75 MHz. (also a somewhat warm running CPU for what I assume was originally a very small box system)

Or given the PCChips related heatsink and the PCChips/Amptron typical bronze colored PCB, maybe it was an OEM board for some 1998 vintage low-end OEM desktop PC ... it could easily fit into normal ATX/mATX mini-towers. (maybe similar to some of the systems the tiny Baby AT XCel2000 slot 1 and S370 boards were intended for ... assuming they were used by OEMs at all)

I almost picked up one of those dual-socket/slot boards that was at a more reasonable price a month or so ago, but ended up passing on it. (it came with the header cables which is nice and also might have made a decent portable project box sort of thing, but ... it still wasn't super cheap and those board have a very mixed reputation, or typical PCChips reputation and worse than the mid/late gen Socket 7 PCChips board reputation ... though I do have a dead Amptron 8600 that came free/as-is with an IBM 6x86L-200 from like ... 9 years ago I think and a 286-20 board that looks like it might be PC-Chips related, at least an oddity being DIP socketed and not SIMM equipped)

at a glance it does look a lot like some of those tin client/embedded systems MediaGX/Geode boards, like this thing:
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/WuEAAOSwtAlbwMDt/s-l1600.jpg

But the onboard chipset logos and peripheral ports are totally different (and many of those thin client and embedded boards lack video output and conventional I/O ports).

Also erroneously listed as Socket 7 ... due to the physical socket molding (as with many socketed Geode products, apparently).
It's actually for an HP print server appliance server box:

Though the use of 4-pin IDE style MOLEX power connectors are certainly less mysterious than that 6-pin thing on my board. (re-use of an old AT style 6-pin connector would also be less mysterious given the period in question and use of that as an aux power connector by OEMs)

That or there's a whole other short-lived form factor that actually tried to standardize on that power connector set-up.

Anyway, the Board measures just about 175x180 mm, so just slightly larger than mini ITX spec. (which it presumably predates given the 1998 BIOS sticker)

Apparently no board-level cache either (unless the chipset itself has any), but a 6x86MX wouldn't do too bad with the 64k unified L1 if it was originally intended as a low-end office/home desktop sort of like those lightweight, almost-empty-feeling (and looking) HP budget-rage PCs with AMD Jaguar or Puma APUs in them from a few years back. Though a K6-2 would be way better suited to any multimedia stuff from 98/99. (and potentially for my micro-gaming-box idea, though an overclocked P55C might be better even with the cache restriction ... especially if a Tilamook CPU will work in it, otherwise an undervolted P55C at 3x75 MHz might be more realistic ... depending what voltage selection the board even has)

OTOH some of Origin Systems game engines seem to really favor Cyrix 6x86/M2 series chips (WCIII/IV in particular, probably being more 386/486 optimized code without any use of FPU or pentium-optimized scheduling) ... and there's always a K6-III/2+/III+ possibility. (though I'd kind of like the novelty of setting up a box with an MII running stable at 2.2V and 3.5x75 MHz ... especially if I brought the thing to some retro PC meet-up or something ...).
A K6-2/3/+ would also run Unreal's software renderer best due to the MMX performance, so there's that gimmick, too. (for actual gaming that's more just a curiosity/novelty thing given there's so many other ways to play Unreal)

And on a totally random note, having that tiny board on hand is really convenient for assisting in straightening/truing (slightly) bent pins on Socket 7 CPUs. (seems to have looser tolerances than my P5A-B, too, more able to accept just-barely-too-bent pins and help sort them out) I was already using that dead Amptron board for that before, but the little board is handy for that until I can do something better with it.

Last edited by Stiletto on 2020-03-02, 06:28. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 25 of 44, by dann86

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cyclone3d wrote on 2018-01-06, 21:36:
There are some that do support AGP... good like getting a full set together though. http://www.ewayco.com/26-Backplanes-PCI-ISA- […]
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Moogle! wrote:

Just remember industrial boards do not support AGP, or at least I have not seen one that does.

There are some that do support AGP... good like getting a full set together though.
http://www.ewayco.com/26-Backplanes-PCI ... S2(R).html
PCIAGP-13S2(R)_500.jpg

Keep in mind those isa slots can’t be used without a bridge chip card.

Reply 26 of 44, by gerwin

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I have a small SS7 board here, quite satisfied with it:

Chaintech 5RSA0 mATX Super Socket 7 Motherboard
1x AGP - 2x PCI - 2x ISA
2x SDRAM
CPU voltage settings: 1.7V to 3.5V. Jumpered.
PLL Chip: ICS9148-36. 60MHz to 100MHz bus. Jumpered.
ESS1869F onboard sound on ISA bus. Can be disabled with a jumper.
IIRC it has the late ALi southbridge revision with UDMA 66 support.
No SB-Link connector

Last edited by Stiletto on 2020-03-02, 06:27. Edited 1 time in total.

--> ISA Soundcard Overview // Doom MBF 2.04 // SetMul

Reply 27 of 44, by Horun

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gerwin, do you have the manual ? There appears to be a r1 and r2 of the 5RSA, a bit differant jumper layout.
https://web.archive.org/web/20040228103215/ht … ion/Manuals.HTM

Smallest socket 7 (think it is S7) board I have is in a Unisys CWD5001 made by FIC. Labeled as a 586-DBA or FIC CWD5751x. Currently running a std P-200, it cannot run MMX and is not a SS7.

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 28 of 44, by gerwin

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Horun wrote on 2020-01-04, 21:55:

gerwin, do you have the manual ? There appears to be a r1 and r2 of the 5RSA, a bit differant jumper layout.
https://web.archive.org/web/20040228103215/ht … ion/Manuals.HTM

I have a pdf manual and a separate single page pdf jumper sheet for this board. Found on the net.
AFAIK there is no revision number and the only identification string is the sticker on the BIOS EEPROM.
The PDF files do not mention board revisions either.
Attached a photo of the board I have stored here.

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--> ISA Soundcard Overview // Doom MBF 2.04 // SetMul

Reply 29 of 44, by Horun

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Ok my bad. I misread the archive, there is CT-5RSA and CT-5RSA2. Both are near identical except where the ESS audio chip is located and small change in jumpers. Interesting boards !
added: https://web.archive.org/web/20031122042947fw_ … ocket7/5RSA.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20031122042922fw_ … cket7/5RSA2.htm

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 30 of 44, by gerwin

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Yeah. The 5RSA2 Has an ESS Solo-1 PCI based audio chip. Also a nice sound chip. But since both these ESS options lack a wavetable, it is begging for an additional sound card with wavetable support anyways.

--> ISA Soundcard Overview // Doom MBF 2.04 // SetMul

Reply 31 of 44, by elmeyer

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I think the Aquarius 5BLSP-A has them all beat is up there. It is to my knowledge only found in the Igel WinNET IV thin client. SiS 530 "Super Socket 7" chipset with onboard graphics via AGP (great DOS compatibility), built-in ESS Solo-1 (also great DOS compatibility for a PCI chip) and Realtek RTL8139B 10/100 LAN. Supports K6-2+ and K6-3+ OOB, which mitigates the low 64 MB cacheable RAM due to only 512 KB of motherboard cache. It also has a DOC socket and 44-pin IDE, great for adding a CF card. Note also the PCI/ISA riser — stick a Voodoo in there, and you’ve got yourself a powerful tiny time machine that handles even speed-sensitive DOS games (FSB even goes down to 50 MHz) up to late-90s Windows games. Picture attached.

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Aquarius 5BLSP-A Super Socket 7 motherboard in Igel WinNET IV thin client
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EDIT: whoops, didn’t see kool_kitty89‘s post. Anyway, this board still packs a lot of punch for its size.

Reply 32 of 44, by SirNickity

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Seems to be a necro-thread, but regardless I would (and did) go for the Zida Tomato board. Smallest baby AT standard I could find, which is almost exactly the same size as mATX, just with more slots instead of an IO panel.

Anything smaller better come with its own case (like the Unisys SFF PCs), otherwise it’s likely to cost more than it’s worth to get completely working. (Industrial SBCs and such, for e.g.)

Reply 33 of 44, by 386DX40

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Probably going to be impossible to find, but way back in the day I had an EPoX P55-KV Socket 7 baby AT motherboard because of it's tiny size. It has a Via chipset and can take the usual Socket 7 CPUs. I ran a P200MMX in mine with 64MB and a Matrox Mystique 2MB video card, it was a great performer and a huge upgrade over my 486 as I recall.

http://www.elhvb.com/mobokive/Archive/Epox/manuals/p55kv.pdf

Reply 34 of 44, by Stiletto

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SirNickity wrote on 2020-01-06, 03:09:

Seems to be a necro-thread

The mods around here tend not to get cranky about it unless it's gone 3 or more years without -replies-. August 2018 - January 2020? Fine.

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do the Fandango!" - Queen

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Reply 35 of 44, by Intel486dx33

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I used this small SS7 Motherboard. It is a normal size Baby ATX motherboard. I put it in a small Lian Li desktop case.
Had lots of room to spare.

See my posts:
AMD K6-lll+@500mhz., Voodoo 3000 (desktop)

Reply 36 of 44, by gerwin

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Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-01-06, 16:08:

I used this small SS7 Motherboard. It is a normal size Baby ATX motherboard. I put it in a small Lian Li desktop case.

That is a nice build.
Baby AT though, instead of ATX.

--> ISA Soundcard Overview // Doom MBF 2.04 // SetMul

Reply 37 of 44, by computerguy08

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I made this thing a few years ago on Instructables (I also wanted a Windows 95 box 😀)

https://www.instructables.com/id/Tiny-Wood-Computer-Case/

It uses a Zida TX98-3D (I think it's the smallest you can go while also maintaining compatibility, S3 Trio 64, Sound Blaster, etc..). That taped capacitor allowed a Floppy drive to sit nearby 😀

FU6QMBGITKLM9B2.LARGE.jpg?auto=webp&width=1024&height=1024&fit=bounds

Reply 38 of 44, by kool kitty89

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Well, here you go.

It measures just about 178x175mm, so close to but not exactly within mini ITX spec and I'm still unsure of that power connector, but it appears to be proprietary going by the traces I followed so far.

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Reply 39 of 44, by ragefury32

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elmeyer wrote on 2020-01-05, 10:01:

I think the Aquarius 5BLSP-A has them all beat is up there. It is to my knowledge only found in the Igel WinNET IV thin client. SiS 530 "Super Socket 7" chipset with onboard graphics via AGP (great DOS compatibility), built-in ESS Solo-1 (also great DOS compatibility for a PCI chip) and Realtek RTL8139B 10/100 LAN. Supports K6-2+ and K6-3+ OOB, which mitigates the low 64 MB cacheable RAM due to only 512 KB of motherboard cache. It also has a DOC socket and 44-pin IDE, great for adding a CF card. Note also the PCI/ISA riser — stick a Voodoo in there, and you’ve got yourself a powerful tiny time machine that handles even speed-sensitive DOS games (FSB even goes down to 50 MHz) up to late-90s Windows games. Picture attached.

50CE69D5-1C82-42C7-AAF7-B634E03BE674.jpeg

EDIT: whoops, didn’t see kool_kitty89‘s post. Anyway, this board still packs a lot of punch for its size.

Say, is this machine yours? What CPU is it running and how was the CPU voltage set?
I have the 5BLSP-A (Igel Etherminal J+) and a copy of the manual, but I can't seem to make heads or tails with the voltage setting. The voltage quoted for the setting (lowest 3 pins closed) does not seem to match the one used on the default (K6-2E @ 333MHz , AMZ model, 1.9VCore/3.3VIO)...