A couple of retros I'm working on.

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Re: A couple of retros I'm working on.

Postby jaZz_KCS » 2018-1-18 @ 10:23

IanB wrote:
You best option is to install the 528MB Award BIOS for now and fit a drive greater than or equal to 528MB. If you want a bigger drive you will have to use the XTIDE BIOS in a network card. (The standard version will work but my modified one has greater OS compatibility)




Does he really need to get an XTIDE to be able to use bigger HDD (or even CF or SD adapter with cards of bigger sizes) above 528MB? I don't think so. The BIOS - if patched - will let him use all brands of drives and CF/SD adapters of his choice, whereas Drive-Overlay software will enable him to use the space above th new 528MB BIOS limitation.

On my T3200SX I have the same situation, albeit with a 40MB barrier. I am using EZ-Drive overlay on a 2GB SD card with an unlocked BIOS (actually the BIOS on the T3200SX is unlocked to 40MB (it still has the 40MB C/H/S settings in the BIOS) so I use overlay software otherwise I could only use 40MB). For him it would be the same, albeit with a 528MB barrier :) To use the space beyond, overlay software would be enough, no need for an XTIDE. This requires the unlocked BIOS, though, of course.
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Re: A couple of retros I'm working on.

Postby Vipersan » 2018-1-18 @ 11:24

My 5200 keyboard is going to be a problem ...as the key highlighted with a yellow square is totally missing its contacts ..
This key was hanging off when I got the unit ..
I suspect the others are all ok ..and the iffy ones may respond to cleaning (I can only hope)..
Unless one of you guys has spare key switches/keyboard...My only option is to choose a less used key like scroll lock ..and swap the key switch over on the pcb.
Sad isn't it ..
rgds
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Re: A couple of retros I'm working on.

Postby Vipersan » 2018-1-18 @ 13:28

I must be mad ..
just put in an offer on a t3200sx with broken screen ..
Probably paying too much but I figured it might be an inexpensive way to get more memory ...a working floppy...and a complete keyboard..
Are the above parts transferrable to my 5200 ?
rgds
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Re: A couple of retros I'm working on.

Postby jaZz_KCS » 2018-1-18 @ 13:50

The keyboard on your T5200, although pretty much built exactly like the T3200SX's one, has two additional notches it seems right at the front of the keyboard for the display to clamp into. You might have to do something about that. My T3200SX only has the outer wider notches, but yours has 2 additional small ones in the middle.

In regards to the memory and the floppy: They are interchangeable, from what I could gather. The pinout on the T3200Sx's floppy is exactly the same as on the T5200, so even the cable should be the same. And AFAIK the T3200SX and T5200 have the same "pickyness" when it comes to the memory. You should be able to use any pairs (!) of memory sticks you find in a T3200SX in a T5200 and vice versa) They only work in pairs though, IIRC.
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Re: A couple of retros I'm working on.

Postby IanB » 2018-1-18 @ 14:28

jaZz_KCS wrote:Does he really need to get an XTIDE to be able to use bigger HDD (or even CF or SD adapter with cards of bigger sizes) above 528MB? I don't think so. The BIOS - if patched - will let him use all brands of drives and CF/SD adapters of his choice, whereas Drive-Overlay software will enable him to use the space above th new 528MB BIOS limitation.

Yes, you are right, I'd forgotten about that option although I used it myself before switching to XTIDE so it will definitely work.
The main reason I switched to XTIDE was that the drive overlays all had compatibility issues With windows 2/386 and Windows 3.0 which I discovered when I was trying to make a multiboot system. The most recent version of XTIDE also had the same compatibility issue but as it was open source I was able to make a custom version that allowed them to run. (They all reserved 1K of memory at the top of the 640K as workspace but those two OS version seemed to ignore that reservation and use it themselves as well resulting in a crash at startup)
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Re: A couple of retros I'm working on.

Postby jaZz_KCS » 2018-1-18 @ 14:48

IanB wrote:
jaZz_KCS wrote:Does he really need to get an XTIDE to be able to use bigger HDD (or even CF or SD adapter with cards of bigger sizes) above 528MB? I don't think so. The BIOS - if patched - will let him use all brands of drives and CF/SD adapters of his choice, whereas Drive-Overlay software will enable him to use the space above th new 528MB BIOS limitation.

Yes, you are right, I'd forgotten about that option although I used it myself before switching to XTIDE so it will definitely work.
The main reason I switched to XTIDE was that the drive overlays all had compatibility issues With windows 2/386 and Windows 3.0 which I discovered when I was trying to make a multiboot system. The most recent version of XTIDE also had the same compatibility issue but as it was open source I was able to make a custom version that allowed them to run. (They all reserved 1K of memory at the top of the 640K as workspace but those two OS version seemed to ignore that reservation and use it themselves as well resulting in a crash at startup)



Interesting indeed. The oldest version I use regularly is Windows 3.1 (even on the 16Mhz 386 of the Toshiba T3200SX) which never has shown me any issues when running them through overlay software. Between Win3.1 and WinXP I have tested every version on overlay software and never found any issues. I had an issue once with the OS sporadically not finding files here and there running into weird issues. But it turned out the the SD used as HDD was simply too old and therefore too slow to be used as HDD replacement. Nowadays with modern SD cards this just doesn't happen anymore.
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Re: A couple of retros I'm working on.

Postby IanB » 2018-1-18 @ 15:04

jaZz_KCS wrote:In regards to the memory and the floppy: They are interchangeable, from what I could gather. The pinout on the T3200Sx's floppy is exactly the same as on the T5200, so even the cable should be the same. And AFAIK the T3200SX and T5200 have the same "pickyness" when it comes to the memory. You should be able to use any pairs (!) of memory sticks you find in a T3200SX in a T5200 and vice versa) They only work in pairs though, IIRC.

I agree that the keyboard and floppy look compatible (assuming they work OK) but I recall reading that the T3200SX used 8 bit wide 30 pin SIMMs in which case they are definitely not compatible with the T5200 which uses proprietary 40 pin SIMMs:

T5200-simm.jpg

These have to be fitted in pairs as they are only 16 bits wide

As mentioned, I modified one of my T5200s to use standard 72 pin SIMMs and it seems to work OK with a variety of different manufacturer's RAM.
If you can't find any of the proprietary SIMMs, you could wire an 8MB 72 pin parity SIMM into your existing memory board giving you 12MB total but it would depend on how you feel about soldering 60-70 wires.

BTW The screen of the T3200SX looks the same as the T5200. If it is, keep the PCB from the back of the broken screen as that failed on one of mine and I fixed it using a pcb from a similar broken screen.
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Re: A couple of retros I'm working on.

Postby Vipersan » 2018-1-18 @ 15:33

Useful info ..
thanks guys ..
They dont make life easy Toshiba ...do they..
I will still be able to use the 3200 with an external vga monitor I guess...
But I have read somewhere that a 10.4 inch vga panel can be fitted ..and hard wired internally to the vga out ..
this too is something I'm considering..
assuming I can find a suitable 4:3 lcd monitor to canabalise..
rgds

these are the listing details..
-------
For sale Vintage 1980s Toshiba T3200 T3200SX model Portable PC Computer "Laptop"

Screen is cracked and not working.
Used external VGA screen to test it.

Unable to test floppy drive as got no discs.

40MB HD starts oryginal Toshina DOS5.0.

Not tested otherwise, sold as Spares or Repair so no returns accepted.

Any questions please ask before bidding.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: A couple of retros I'm working on.

Postby jaZz_KCS » 2018-1-18 @ 15:40

Ah, so the memory used is indeed different. That's good to know. Proprietary 40-pin SIMMs, omg, that is definitely not compatible, as the T3200 uses 8bit 30-pin. And is also VERY picky about which it will accept and which it doesn't. In regards to the displays of the 5200 and 3200SX. Are they the same size?

The display bezel of the 5200 seems to have a second pair of notches for it's closing mechanism in the middle that ledges into the appropriate two additional notches in the keyboard cover. You might be able to use a keyboard salvaged from the T3200SX, if you are able to interchange the keyboard covers, as it appears you would have to use the original 5200 keyboard cover.
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Re: A couple of retros I'm working on.

Postby jaZz_KCS » 2018-1-18 @ 15:43

Vipersan wrote:-------
For sale Vintage 1980s Toshiba T3200 T3200SX model Portable PC Computer "Laptop"

Screen is cracked and not working.
Used external VGA screen to test it.

Unable to test floppy drive as got no discs.

40MB HD starts oryginal Toshina DOS5.0.

Not tested otherwise, sold as Spares or Repair so no returns accepted.

Any questions please ask before bidding.
--------------------------------------------------------------------



Hmm, seems to be quite the gamble considering that this portable's display is ALSO broken. What does the keyboard look like? Is it in decent shape? The fact that the "HD starts oryginal Toshina DOS5.0." means that the Connor HDD is still working, albeit I would still not trust it at this point in time and not use it at all. Chances are high that it also, like so many other CP-3044s have broken bearings with leaking oil. My Conner drive was still working AFTER it leaked massive amounts of oil. After further inspection it turned out that the first half of sectors were still fine (this is why it still booted), but the second half of the HDD platter was basically "sectorless" for every DIAG software :P
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Re: A couple of retros I'm working on.

Postby Vipersan » 2018-1-18 @ 15:46

jaZz_KCS wrote:
Vipersan wrote:-------
For sale Vintage 1980s Toshiba T3200 T3200SX model Portable PC Computer "Laptop"

Screen is cracked and not working.
Used external VGA screen to test it.

Unable to test floppy drive as got no discs.

40MB HD starts oryginal Toshina DOS5.0.

Not tested otherwise, sold as Spares or Repair so no returns accepted.

Any questions please ask before bidding.
--------------------------------------------------------------------



Hmm, seems to be quite the gamble considering that this portable's display is ALSO broken. What does the keyboard look like? Is it in decent shape? The fact that the "HD starts oryginal Toshina DOS5.0." means that the Connor HDD is still working, albeit I would still not trust it at this point in time and not use it at all. Chances are high that is also, like so many other CP-3044s already leaked oil.


Well if nothing else JZ ..I have paid over the odds for key switches which I can fit into the 5200 keyboard ..
I at least would get the original keyboard working that way..
;)
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Re: A couple of retros I'm working on.

Postby jaZz_KCS » 2018-1-18 @ 15:50

You want to use the spare keyboard, and put the one missing the one connector away as replacement parts? Good idea. I would love to see if it works after you have changed the keyboard bezel. Should fit nicely, then.

It seems I got very lucky with my 3200SX as it has a working FDD and a shiny keyboard. The person I obtained it from told me he used it in his cellar for years as a driver of electronic equipment over the serial port.
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Re: A couple of retros I'm working on.

Postby Vipersan » 2018-1-18 @ 15:58

Here is a photo from the listing...
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Re: A couple of retros I'm working on.

Postby jaZz_KCS » 2018-1-18 @ 16:15

Heh, you can totally see what went one there.
The one-use-only label that is used to cover the screws of the display has been ripped only half way. Somebody probably wanted to look inside the machine and after experiencing this was like: "Nope! Not touching that.."

It probably hasn't been taken apart for a long time. Curious about the BIOS version inside...
...Also about the memory... I would love to get some additional memory for my T3200SX. Apart from the 1MB built-in it only has a pair of 2x1MB, giving it 3MB total. Not bad, but could be better as well...
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Re: A couple of retros I'm working on.

Postby Vipersan » 2018-1-18 @ 16:19

jaZz_KCS wrote:Heh, you can totally see what went one there.
The one-use-only label that is used to cover the screws of the display has been ripped only half way. Somebody probably wanted to look inside the machine and after experiencing this was like: "Nope! Not touching that.."

It probably hasn't been taken apart for a long time. Curious about the BIOS version inside...
...Also about the memory... I would love to get some additional memory for my T3200SX. Apart from the 1MB built-in it only has a pair of 2x1MB, giving it 3MB total. Not bad, but could be better as well...


I'll image the bios and upload it here ..when I get it of course..
;)
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Re: A couple of retros I'm working on.

Postby Vipersan » 2018-1-18 @ 21:20

Took a look inside the T4900CT floppy drive and found it was belt driven..
And surprise surprise ...the black neoprene rubber had turned to goo ..
thus nothing is spinning ..
the belt or whats left of it is melted and bonded to all drive surfaces.
This is not easily accessible and cleaning it will be a nightmare ..if at all possible..due to compactness and size.
I estimate the thickness of this belt which is either square section or round section (hard to tell) cannot exceed 0.6 or 0.7mm
approx diameter is around 60mm to 70mm.
Getting replacements is easy diameter wise ..but nothing less than 1mm cross section ..which is much too thick.
Any suggestions ..
???
this is a very thin belt and no wonder it decomposed..
rgds
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Re: A couple of retros I'm working on.

Postby jaZz_KCS » 2018-1-18 @ 22:44

Vipersan wrote:Any suggestions ..
???
this is a very thin belt and no wonder it decomposed..
rgds
VS



My advice would be to find out whether the end of the ribbon cable that connects to the planar has the normal super slim-drive pinout. Then you could easily swap it with another readily available 1/3rds height drive that's not belt driven. That's a very old superslim drive then. (Even butcher so called "USB-Floppy Drives" from nowadays which normally are just refurbishedor NOS TEAC drives or equivalent...) If the cable is soldered onto the Floppy drive, fine, but maybe it's the normal pinout? :)
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Re: A couple of retros I'm working on.

Postby Vipersan » 2018-1-18 @ 23:49

So ..as you can probably tell ..this is no easy strip down ..
The plastics are thin and brittle ...and just releasing ..not disconnecting the floppy requires complete disassembly..
..at least you should now be able to see how the floppy drive is connected ..
Proprietory again ??
rgds
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Re: A couple of retros I'm working on.

Postby jaZz_KCS » 2018-1-19 @ 10:34

No, that doesn't look proprietary. Just as I thought, the cable is not soldered to the floppy drive. You can detach it by pulling it out (carefully). It seems to be a standard 26-pin ZIF cable, that most 1/3rd height 3.5" floppy drives use.

Just to make sure I took out one of my spare super slim-drives and it turned out to be a "Citizen" FDD like the one you have. It looks almost identical:

Image

I don't think that the pinout is proprietary, it looks like a standard ZIF connector. Carefully rip out the cable from the floppy drive, and attach a standard spare 1/3 super slim drive. It should work. (If you don't have any spare super slim drives, you can easily buy a replacement for 10 bucks or less, they are widely available.You can even buy a cheap "USB-Floppy" and take it apart, as there are always refurbished 1/3rd height drives in there with some sort of USB adapter on the ZIF connector.) Also, if you have any other laptops that make use of external FDDs in some form of caddies, you can use them as well, as almost always inside those you will find 1/3rd height drives with ZIF connectors.
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Re: A couple of retros I'm working on.

Postby Vipersan » 2018-1-19 @ 11:03

jaZz_KCS wrote:No, that doesn't look proprietary. Just as I thought, the cable is not soldered to the floppy drive. You can detach it by pulling it out (carefully). It seems to be a standard 26-pin ZIF cable, that most 1/3rd height 3.5" floppy drives use.

Just to make sure I took out one of my spare super slim-drives and it turned out to be a "Citizen" FDD like the one you have. It looks almost identical:



I don't think that the pinout is proprietary, it looks like a standard ZIF connector. Carefully rip out the cable from the floppy drive, and attach a standard spare 1/3 super slim drive. It should work. (If you don't have any spare super slim drives, you can easily buy a replacement for 10 bucks or less, they are widely available.You can even buy a cheap "USB-Floppy" and take it apart, as there are always refurbished 1/3rd height drives in there with some sort of USB adapter on the ZIF connector.) Also, if you have any other laptops that make use of external FDDs in some form of caddies, you can use them as well, as almost always inside those you will find 1/3rd height drives with ZIF connectors.


Thanks for taking the time to look JZ ..
I guess I'm on the hunt now for a suitable 1/3 height ultra slim with what looks like a ZIF ..though I can't see a latching mech for the release of the cable ..and boy is it tight in there ..
though you have clearly removed one as shown by your picture..
rgds
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