VOGONS


First post, by Taijigamer

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Hi,

New to the forum. Loving the vintage vibe. Need some advice on a 486 build. Back in the day I had a DX2 66MHz pc but upgraded eventually to a pentium mmx 233mhz. Both now are long gone and vintage hardware has reached ridiculous prices.

Now after 20 years I'm trying to build a 486 pc for dos gaming and potentially housing a creative Labs 3DO blaster card if I ever find one for sale. I'm also building a win98/xp pc for late 90's gaming and legacy 32bit applications, but I have all necessary parts for that one.

My question is what are the better motherboards out there? I've seen pc chips and sis 85c496 on eBay but not sure what are the better chipsets or more versatile.

Reply 1 of 21, by badmojo

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The SiS based ASUS boards are well regarded, like this VLB number:

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Vintage-AT-DESKTO … NoAAOSwzppaR0yl

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Reply 2 of 21, by Skyscraper

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badmojo wrote:

The SiS based ASUS boards are well regarded, like this VLB number:

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Vintage-AT-DESKTO … NoAAOSwzppaR0yl

My vote goes to the Asus PVI-486SP3 (Asus, SiS chipset, PCI + VLB + ISA). Others will probably tell you that this board is a Jack of all trades but this Jack is one solid lad in my opinion.

Depending on revision this motherboard might need a newer replacement BIOS chip to be able to fit the latest BIOS. Stange things happen when you try to flash the later BIOS versions to the early BIOS chips. The board uses standard flash chips and they are cheap and not hard to find but you might need help with getting the BIOS in there if you are not willing to do a "hot flash" or own a programmer. I took a suitable flash chip from a non working Shuttle HOT i440LX motherboard and used the PVI-486SP3 to do the "hot flash".

These kind of quirks are common among 486 motherboards.

I don't see any Asus PVI-486SP3 boards on Ebay right now but they are rather common motherboards.

Last edited by Skyscraper on 2018-01-15, 21:13. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 3 of 21, by jheronimus

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I think there is no need to build a 486 PCI machine if you're planning to get a dedicated 9x machine. So it's probably a nice idea to limit yourself to VLB.

AFAIK there are three main late VLB chipsets: SIS471, UMC4980 and Opti895. SIS and UMC are faster, Opti is more stable and compatible (at least in my experience). I have AOpen VI15G (SIS471) and QDI V4P895GRN/SMT V1.1 (Opti895) and if you ever want to try faster chips like AMD 5x86, then Opti is definitely a better choice.

But generally with 486 boards you can't really hunt for a specific model. Just look for these things:

- CR2032 battery support (so you don't have to deal with leaking barrel batteries);
- VRM regulator (so that you could use DX4 and 5x86 chips if you ever want to);
- ZIF CPU socket (with a lever mechanism);
- 4xSIMM72 RAM slots (some SIS471 boards even support EDO RAM);
- support for write-back cache (again, only useful if you ever wish to upgrade to faster chips);
- no PCI slots (it's kind of useless on a 486 and it may impact your performance/stability);
- availability of online documentation/jumper settings.

Last edited by jheronimus on 2018-01-15, 21:21. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 4 of 21, by jesolo

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The 486 PC was quite for a long time on the market.
Although being first introduced in 1989, most people probably hang onto their 386 PC's until at least 1992, after which the prices of the CPUs started to come down due to competition from AMD & Cyrix.

I think the first thing you need to ask yourself is whether you want a motherboard with VESA Local Bus slots or PCI slots (or a combination of both).
Although the 486 started out on only the ISA bus, it would be sub-optimal to run a 486DX2 66 MHz or faster on an ISA only graphics card.

Some people firmly believe that a 486 CPU should only be paired with a motherboard that has VESA Local Bus slots (since this was specifically developed to cater for the 486 architecture).
One of my favourite 486 VESA Local Bus motherboards is the Asus VL/I-486SV2GX4 and utilises the SIS 471 chipset. What I also like about this particular Asus motherboard (and most of their later 486 motherboards) is that, unlike most other 486 motherboards from other manufacturers, this one also has a PS/2 header on the motherboard.

The SIS 496/497 chipsets (that you also referred to) was mostly used (from what I've seen) on PCI based 486 motherboards. Although, they were also used on ISA/VESA Local Bus/PCI combo motherboards as well (the Asus PVI-486SP3 being one example). Other PCI based 486 motherboards that I found to work quite well is the Luckystar LS-486E motherboard (utilising the SIS 496/497 chipset) and also the Gigabyte GA-5486AL (utilising the ALI M1489/M1487 chipsets).

There are pros and cons to each one but, in the end, I think your biggest deciding factor will be availability and price (since 486 motherboards are becoming more scarce and pricey).
PCI based 486 motherboards were introduced quite later on so that, by that time, the technology had matured already to a point where you had much more stable motherboards and, in most cases, on-board IDE, floppy, serial & parallel connections (as opposed to VESA Local Bus motherboards, where you, in most cases, required an IDE I/O controller card as well). SCSI was also an option on both of these but, normally via an interface card.
Most PCI based motherboards also had greater support for later 486 CPU's (specifically, the 3.3V DX4 100 MHz and faster CPU's including the Cyrix 5x86 & AMD 5x86 range of CPU's). Earlier motherboards either required a BIOS update (via a physical replacement of the BIOS chip) or, didn't support those at all (due to either no updated BIOS being available and/or no voltage regulator for the later 3.3V CPU's).

Reply 5 of 21, by Taijigamer

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Thank you for the replies. This have given a lot of valuable information. The build I need requires isa slots and at least 1 vesa (pci is not essential but may be useful). I regularly do solder rework and chip flashing so upgrading the bios shouldn't be an issue.

The 3DO blaster required a 386 or 486 architecture with a vesa graphics card so at least 1 vesa slot would be required. On board I/O would be useful especially ps/2 connectors. A DX4 would be the desired processor to give dos games an extra poke. As said, 486 motherboards have become scarce and pricey?! So I will have to select a balance of spec/availability/price.

Reply 6 of 21, by The Serpent Rider

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Outside of potential 3DO card expansion I see no reason to go for pure VLB 486 boards. They are extremely unpractical.

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Reply 7 of 21, by CkRtech

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The Serpent Rider wrote:

Outside of potential 3DO card expansion I see no reason to go for pure VLB 486 boards. They are extremely unpractical.

A PCI 486 is not a real 486. Either VLB or go Pentium. <mic drop> 😁

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Reply 8 of 21, by Anonymous Coward

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I prefer vlb, but it’s hard for me to recommend as the cards have become scarce and prices are too high.

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Reply 11 of 21, by fitzpatr

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squiggly wrote:
The Serpent Rider wrote:

VLB Pentium!

Wouldn't that be a Pentium Overdrive?

Not necessarily. There were a few Socket 4 and Socket 5 boards with VLB slots as well. My understanding is that the VLB implementation was not as good because VLB was closely tied to the 486 architecture.

Depending on choice of cards, look for the area beyond the card slots being clear for longer cards.

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Reply 12 of 21, by .legaCy

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CkRtech wrote:
The Serpent Rider wrote:

Outside of potential 3DO card expansion I see no reason to go for pure VLB 486 boards. They are extremely unpractical.

A PCI 486 is not a real 486. Either VLB or go Pentium. <mic drop> 😁

I share the same opinion, the "magic" of the 486 is the vlb.

Reply 13 of 21, by badmojo

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.legaCy wrote:

I share the same opinion, the "magic" of the 486 is the vlb.

+1 - and none of this fancy IO-on-the-motherboard stuff for 486, it needs to be a VLB IO and VLB VGA.

A proper 486 will fight you every step of the way.

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Reply 14 of 21, by cyclone3d

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badmojo wrote:
.legaCy wrote:

I share the same opinion, the "magic" of the 486 is the vlb.

+1 - and none of this fancy IO-on-the-motherboard stuff for 486, it needs to be a VLB IO and VLB VGA.

A proper 486 will fight you every step of the way.

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Reply 15 of 21, by oeuvre

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squiggly wrote:
The Serpent Rider wrote:

VLB Pentium!

Wouldn't that be a Pentium Overdrive?

pentium oeuvredrive

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Reply 16 of 21, by chinny22

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badmojo wrote:

+1 - and none of this fancy IO-on-the-motherboard stuff for 486, it needs to be a VLB IO and VLB VGA.

What about if its like mine? on board VLB I/O and VGA?

I think I actually prefer OEM systems round this time, as they were much quicker to use PS2 ports then hardware manufacturers and serial mice annoy me like crazy!

No matter what 486 is a compromise, and in the end it'll mostly depend on what's available. I wouldn't get to worried about "the best"

Reply 18 of 21, by amadeus777999

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If you're not after the fastest 486 possible a VLB machine is of course the classic choice.
I had one based on the SiS471 chipset and compared to the newer ones it provided good speed.