Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Discussion about old PC hardware.

Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby jaZz_KCS » 2018-2-19 @ 19:41

I went the way and ordered a 34->26 pin FDD converter, which should arrive shortly and should work out of the box.

Welcome to the world of old Toshibas :)
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby IanB » 2018-2-19 @ 20:13

kultakala wrote:So i guess to make an adapter cable like Ian described should make it possible to get a normal floppy drive working without further modifications ?

Hi kultakala,
Yes, both myself and vipersan have made up the cable and got standard floppy drives working with the T5200.

kultakala wrote:My first T5200 was built in Japan in 1988 according to the date codes on the ICs.
There is no actual BIOS, i can only start setup via the test3.exe from the DOS path and it shows no time or date in it and is just plain text, without ascii graphics.
Does not look like any i saw here as a screenshot. Seems to be a very old bios. It runs DOS 4.11.
Second one was built in the US in 1992. It has a more modern BIOS (Award ?) and runs DOS 6.22 with Win 3.1 installed.

Sounds like your machines might have earlier and later bios versions to the ones we have so far.
If you get your floppy drive working, perhaps you could dump your BIOS and maybe your VGA BIOS as well to floppy and post them here for me to look at.
To dump the main BIOS, download the following zip file:
http://www.bockelkamp.de/software/disco ... os1351.zip
Extract the file BIOS.EXE from the above downloaded zip file and copy it to a bootable floppy.
Also copy DEBUG.EXE from a standard MSDOS install to the floppy

Boot the T5200 using the floppy and at the A:\> command prompt type:

BIOS D A:\BIOS.BIN

which should create a 64K file called BIOS.BIN on the floppy
To dump the VGA BIOS type the following followed by enter after each line at the A:\ prompt:

DEBUG
N VGA.BIN
M C000:0 FFFF 8000:0
R BX
1
R CX
0
W 8000:0

You should end up with a file VGA.BIN on the floppy

I think files from your newest board would be most useful, but you can post both sets if you want.

kultakala wrote:If i would like to change the BIOS to swap the Conner disk against something else... would it be possible to use any newer patched BIOS or would i need to stick with the version which is installed now ?

I would recommend the 5.30 Award 1990 BIOS as that is the most recent we have so far (file on first page of this thread) but if your one is more recent I will look at patching that one as well.
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby kultakala » 2018-2-19 @ 21:09

I hope my cable will work... still have 26 pin ribbon cable and 26 pin headers but need to get 34 pin ones...
If its working i will make the Bios dumps of course.

Btw, this is the setup screen of the newer mainboard:
Tosh Bios New.jpg


The chips containing the bios are on the lower left under the keyboard, right ?
These are the ones with the newer bios:
Tosh New.jpg


And these are the old ones:
Tosh Old.jpg


The 5200 with the older bios is not starting after i changed some lines in the config.sys.
After booting it halts with "internal stack error".
I can fix it when the floppy works again... or i can swap the hard disk, then i can start it up.
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby Vipersan » 2018-2-19 @ 21:28

The bios is in the 1024 Eprom chip AM27C1024
and the Toshiba 1024D
IC30

Paper labels 002A & 006A
rgds
VS
If you can get access to an Eprom programmer these chips are easily read ..
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby IanB » 2018-2-19 @ 22:41

kultakala wrote:The chips containing the bios are on the lower left under the keyboard, right ?
These are the ones with the newer bios:

Yes, as vipersan says the 002A and 006A ones are the BIOS chips. The other similar chip (012A) is the keyboard controller.
The VGA BIOS is on a separate EPROM on the video board which is accessed via the ISA slots panel on the back of the machine
Based on those labels and the screen grab, this is probably what you have:
002A is Award 1988 V1.20 which was the original ROM in my machine and won't recognise 8MB RAM SIMMs.
006A is Phoenix 1989 V3.00 (This is the same as the original ROM in vipersan's machine).
But I can confirm that if you post the dumps.

We are both now running the Award 1990 V5.30 BIOS so that will likely work for you as well.
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby Hamby » 2018-2-20 @ 15:50

IanB wrote:
We are both now running the Award 1990 V5.30 BIOS so that will likely work for you as well.


You aren't running my bios?
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby IanB » 2018-2-20 @ 16:23

Hamby wrote:You aren't running my bios?

That is your BIOS! (With patches)
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby Vipersan » 2018-2-20 @ 16:52

Indeed ..
The sticker on mine even acknowledges this ..
rgds
VS
Attachments
DSCF0123.JPG
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby Hamby » 2018-2-22 @ 19:03

IanB wrote:
Hamby wrote:You aren't running my bios?

That is your BIOS! (With patches)


oh. I thought mine was 92.
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby Hamby » 2018-2-23 @ 05:42

IanB, I have Yet Another Question for you:

Is there any way around the 14mb RAM limit?
In the original PC/XT/AT, you could add an ISA RAM card to expand the memory. Could such a card be plugged into the T5200 with the memory mapped beyond the 14mb limit, providing a theoretically 32 or even 64mb of total RAM?

---
Earlier in the thread, I believe you said to someone, "Welcome to the world of old Toshibas!"

It made me think...

the first computer I ever touched was my high-school's lone TRS-80 Model 1 with level II basic.
The first computer of my own was a Commodore Vic-20.
The first *DOS* computer I ever owned, however, was a brand new Toshiba T1100 Plus.
A computer store had just opened locally, and while taking my mom shopping somewhere I dropped in. They were having a prize drawing for a brand new (and I mean the machine had just come out) Toshiba T1100 Plus. I jabbered away trying to explain what it was, but all she got was, basically, that it was a computer thing and I was excited about it. That's all she ever needed to know, bless her heart. She not only talked me into entering, she entered, too.

She won it. Completely computer illiterate and completely uninterested in them.
And gave it to me, as she intended all along.

Thanks for inadvertently giving me back that fond memory :happy:

---
edit to add: I also just remembered... I eventually sold it to buy a 75mb HD for my Amiga 2000. As usual, I screwed up in reverse; I shoulda sold the Amiga to buy development software and textbooks for the T1100 Plus... Hindsight=2020.
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby Hamby » 2018-2-23 @ 08:31

IanB wrote:
6. Fitted 2 extra ISA cards in the space where the Hard Drive was originally fitted giving 4 ISA cards total.


How did you fit 2 extra ISA cards when you only had 2 slots (and one of them 8-bit)?
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby kultakala » 2018-2-23 @ 08:45

Hamby wrote:the first computer I ever touched was my high-school's lone TRS-80 Model 1 with level II basic.
The first computer of my own was a Commodore Vic-20.
The first *DOS* computer I ever owned, however, was a brand new Toshiba T1100 Plus.


First computers i touched were some of commodore's CBM 4000 and 8000 series, my first own one was the Vic-20, too :happy:
First "DOS computer" was actually a HP 95LX if that counts.

Meanwhile i was able to get 34-pin IDC connectors, they were sold out at the main online shops here so i had to visit a local electronics store.
The weekend will show if my floppy adapter will work.

Regarding the other modifications... what would be a simple solution to get rid of the conner disk ?
Would it be possible to just replace it with a cf card with adapter ?
How does the modded bios work ? Do you have to put the disk geometry in like in the original bios or is it self detecting ?
Sorry for asking silly questions but i have no experience with this so far.

Regards,
Olaf
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby Vipersan » 2018-2-23 @ 10:02

Not actually tried this yet ..but it should be possible to re-use the Conners after reformatting and with the modified bios ..
They simply aren't useable by a modded bios as is ...due to the geometry differences.
..and yes ...the new bios is auto recognising of hard drives.
This is definately the way to go imo..new bios = new lease of life for these classic computers ...and more options.
If like me you want to keep the Conners original drive contents ...
find a way to get the data off the drive ..and transfer this to a new drive after formatting and using under the new bios.
rgds
VS
Last edited by Vipersan on 2018-2-23 @ 10:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby jaZz_KCS » 2018-2-23 @ 10:03

kultakala wrote:
Regarding the other modifications... what would be a simple solution to get rid of the conner disk ?
Would it be possible to just replace it with a cf card with adapter ?
How does the modded bios work ? Do you have to put the disk geometry in like in the original bios or is it self detecting ?
Sorry for asking silly questions but i have no experience with this so far.

Regards,
Olaf


You could replace the Connor with either another IDE drive or with an SD/CF2IDE adapter, indeed.

In both cases it comes down to the BIOS you have, as some versions do accept other drives out of the box and some will refuse to boot with anything else than a Connor detected.
If your BIOS indeed by itself supports drives other than Connor, you could use an adapter (SD/CF) or another IDE drive (the BIOS will let you use the same amount of disk space that the Connor drive would have) and could easily get access to the rest of the drive space using overlay software like EZ-BIOS or On-Track.

If you BIOS does not support HDDs other than the aforementioned Connor drives they came with, your options would be to either flash or have somebody flash for you (with an EEPROM burner) another BIOS (preferably with the XT-IDE BIOS included (talk to IanB) for maximum compatibility and options) or by using an XT-IDE ISA card (which would be the same route, albeit more expensive.)

TL;DR If your BIOS version DOES support different drives other than Connors than were supplied with it, then you just need another IDE drive / CF/SD-adapter and use overlay software, that will "translate" the cylinder/head/sector data for you.
If it DOESN'T then you need to patch the BIOS version (preferably by a fellow vogoner), and replace your BIOS chip.

Sadly, these old Connors, even if they still work, might cease to do so any given time now, they are a ticking time bomb. (They can leak oil over your MB, even, after they have given up completely.)
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby kultakala » 2018-2-23 @ 10:20

Right now, there is nothing on the disks except DOS, so i would not need to keep the data from the Conner disk.

Can you recommend a CF card Adapter i could try ?

First thing is to get the floppy working...
Then i could get a cf adapter incl. cf card and try to replace the conner.
Given that the bios would allow it i then could just install new DOS from floppy to the cf card or which steps are necessary ?
How and were needs an overlay software to be installed ?
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby kultakala » 2018-2-23 @ 10:22

jaZz_KCS wrote:I went the way and ordered a 34->26 pin FDD converter, which should arrive shortly and should work out of the box.


Where did u get that converter ? I was not able to find one yet...
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby kultakala » 2018-2-23 @ 10:38

I just looked around for a cf card adapter and found this, a PATA Flash Module... do you think this would work instead of a cf card ?
https://us.transcend-info.com/Embedded/Products/No-819
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby jaZz_KCS » 2018-2-23 @ 10:55

This is the 34-pin-26pin FDD converter I have ordered, with it I should be able to simply switch the 26-pin FDD with proprietary connector for a generic 34-pin one. (you can also make an adapter cable by hand, intructions for that are earlier in this thread)

http://www.ebay.de/itm/1pcs-34-Pin-Flop ... 2749.l2649

A PATA flash drive would/should also work, albeit I have to say that I almost purely use SD2IDE adapters instead. But the principle is the same. Although CF cards are PATA compatible and SD are not, in the end I have to use overlay software anyways since the SD cards are to big anyways in terms of capacity so in order to be able to use it all I refer to overlay software always.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Secure-Digital-4 ... 2749.l2649 (although this is an example of a 2.5" one)

It comes down to whether you have a BIOS version that allows drives other than Connor. If it does, it doesnt really matter WHAT you attach (IDE/CF/SD). When using CF/SD you will want to install overlay software right after plugging it in, BEFORE installing DOS or any OS, as the overlay software needs to boot first in order to translate the C/H/S settings for the BIOS.

If you decide to go the XTBIOS or XT-Card route, you won't have to use overlay software as the improved BIOS will be able to handle all kinds of drives/solutions as for example CF/SD.

My T3200SX (very similar in this regard to the T5200) didn't accept anything else than Connor.
A fellow vogoner sent me a chip with a modified BIOS.
Then I could attach a SD2IDE adapter with SD card. It then booted, which it wouldnt before without a Connor.
Then I installed overlay software to be able to use the whole 2GB SD card (not only 40MB like the Connor)
Then DOS. All fine.
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby kultakala » 2018-2-23 @ 11:08

I will try to make me an adapter cable at the weekend... otherwise i will wait for your report about the converter after you tried it out.

Guess i would go for a IDE Flash drive after switching to a new bios... we will see :)

Thanks so far for all of your help!
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby IanB » 2018-2-25 @ 00:02

Hamby wrote:IanB, I have Yet Another Question for you:
Is there any way around the 14mb RAM limit?
In the original PC/XT/AT, you could add an ISA RAM card to expand the memory. Could such a card be plugged into the T5200 with the memory mapped beyond the 14mb limit, providing a theoretically 32 or even 64mb of total RAM?

ISA slots can only address the first 16 MB as they only have 24 bits of address space so you couldn't plug in 32 or 64MB or RAM that way and even if you could it would be very slow as the ISA bus is slow compared to the rest of the system. The BIOS won't detect any larger SIMMs if they are plugged into the RAM slots so I think 14MB is probably the limit on this system.

Hamby wrote:How did you fit 2 extra ISA cards when you only had 2 slots (and one of them 8-bit)?

The ISA bus is just that, a bus and all signals are identical on all ISA slots so I just used a ribbon cable to carry all the ISA slot signals from the back of the ISA slot PCB over to some new ISA slot connectors plugged onto the extra cards.
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