Which dual slot1 PIII motherboard ?

Discussion about old PC hardware.

Which dual slot1 PIII motherboard ?

Postby okenido » 2018-2-02 @ 18:08

I'm currently looking on ebay for a reasonably-priced motherboard with dual slot1 cpu support. I'd like it support my PIII 933mhz so i can buy a second one, and it needs to have an AGP slot

I found some mobos, but it's always very hard to know if they support coppermine CPUs. Some don't have the required VRMs, some have outdated BIOS, some doesn't have any info on the net (like the following Fujitsu-Siemens).

Which motherboard would you recommend ? I don't want to spend more than $100... No Tyan or Supermicro mobos :lol:

There is this Dell motherboard : https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Dell-3768U-Mainboard-Intel-Dual-Slot-1-SCSI-ISA-PCI-X-IDE-USB-fur-Precision-410/372210960241?hash=item56a9808771:g:sE0AAOSwe6Zac1Er
Image

A Fujitsu-siemens : https://www.ebay.fr/itm/FSC-Fujitsu-Siemens-D1031-A22-GS-5-Dualprozessor-Board-Slot1-mit-Rechnung/371247923310?hash=item567019c06e:g:eGcAAOSwxYxUzKtW
Image

A Gigabyte GA-6BXDS rev 1.7
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Gigabyte-GA-6BXDS-Dual-slot1-SCSI-motherboard/122936671350?hash=item1c9f98bc76:g:dtQAAOSwB-1Y7i1X
Image
okenido
Newbie
 
Posts: 93
Joined: 2017-9-21 @ 20:42

Re: Which dual slot1 PIII motherboard ?

Postby dionb » 2018-2-02 @ 19:17

As a general rule, avoid OEM motherboards if you possibly can.

All three boards seem to use the i440BX chipset, which has a max FSB of 100MHz, so that P3-933EB will require overclocking, or you'll have to run it at 7x100MHz instead. But before you can get there your board needs to support Coppermine CPUs. With the Dell that depends on revision, and the seller doesn't mention that. Given he states that it supports PII (and not PIII regardless of version) makes me worry. The Fujitsu is rev A22 which supports Coppermine, so that is OK, but it requires a separate VRM (that slots into the beige connector next to the second CPU slot) for dual CPU operation. The GA-6BXDS is at least still supported on the Gigabyte site, so it's clear enough: Coppermine is supported from PCB revision 1.8 and BIOS F1 or later. See http://faq.gigabyte.com/FileUpload/FAQ/ ... rtlist.pdf So if the seller can tell you which PCB revision it has, you will know. Unfortunately, this board does not have OC options, so 100MHz FSB is the limit unless you want to do some serious modding (and the same undoubtedly applies to the other two).

If you want dual slot 1 with official 133MHz FSB support AND no Tyan or Supermicro, you're in very rare territory. Most dual CPU 133MHz FSB boards have the Via 694D chipset, which was generally paired with So370 FC-PGA, and I'm not aware of any Slot1 implementations. You might find slot 1 Serverworks III chipsets, but that's Tyan territory. Or there's the Intel OR840, which is rare, buggy and it means using RDRAM. Another RDRAM option is the i820, but the only common board with that combo (Asus' P3C-D) almost never works. I literally tested 5 over a 4-year period and not one booted (an Intel VC820 single slot 1 board proved that all CPUs, RIMMs and PSU used were OK). Chances you'll find one working now is about zero.

So you choose:
- abandon the 'no Tyan or Supermicro' bit
- abandon the 133MHz FSB bit
- abandon Slot 1 and look for FC-PGA boards
Last edited by dionb on 2018-2-02 @ 20:10, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
dionb
Oldbie
 
Posts: 546
Joined: 2017-12-23 @ 15:35
Location: Amsterdam

Re: Which dual slot1 PIII motherboard ?

Postby Skyscraper » 2018-2-02 @ 19:18

I'm temped to say the Fujitsu-Siemens board but that one seems to need a VRM module.

Go with the Gigabyte GA-6BXDS, dual CPU i440BX is always nice!

Avoid Dell if you don't want to research non ATX but ATX like PSU connector pinouts...


EDIT

As mentioned above, for 133 MHz FSB you need to look for something else.

Should the Gigabyte GA-6BXDS be of the non Coppermine friendly kind (I just checked and it is in fact revision 1.7 = non Coppermine friendly) that can most likely be solved with two FCPGA Slotkets with VID selection (set for 1.8V). The MSI 6905 Master Slotket can be found for 5 euro on Ebay. Use cheap 2$ FCPGA P3 1000(133)@750(100) CPUs. Then you can also use P3 1100(100) MHz CPUs in the future when you stumble on a couple of cheap ones. I paid about $10 each for a pair I bought a bit more than a year ago.

/EDIT
Last edited by Skyscraper on 2018-2-02 @ 19:39, edited 6 times in total.
Main PC: Dual Xeon X5690@4.6ghz, Evga - SR-2, 48gb memory, Intel X25-M g2 SSD and a Nvidia GTX 780 Ti.
Retro PC #3: K6-2 450@500mhz, PC-Chips m577, 256mb sdram, AWE64 and a Voodoo Banshee.
Skyscraper
l33t
 
Posts: 3301
Joined: 2013-9-18 @ 15:36
Location: Sweden

Re: Which dual slot1 PIII motherboard ?

Postby dionb » 2018-2-02 @ 19:31

If you're not averse to OCing, the Asus P2B-D and P2B-DS rev 1.06 pcba D03 or higher would be good options, with i440BX chipset, CuMine support, bulletproof build quality and at least the options to go up to 133MHz FSB.
User avatar
dionb
Oldbie
 
Posts: 546
Joined: 2017-12-23 @ 15:35
Location: Amsterdam

Re: Which dual slot1 PIII motherboard ?

Postby Cyrix200+ » 2018-2-02 @ 19:58

Personally, I would be looking for a Socket 370 board with the VIA 694D chipset. Something like the Abit VP6 or MSI 694D Pro or Asus CUV4X-D. It should be easy and cheap to find a pair of nice CPU's to go with it.

But also, I do feel that Slot 1 had a higher wow-factor :)

I am not a fan of overclocking the BX chipset to a 133MHz FSB, I have tried a few times in the past, but I found it to be more trouble that it's worth.
Retro workhorse: Asus P2B-LS | Tualatin Celeron 1400MHz | Matrox G400
-
Image gallery
User avatar
Cyrix200+
Oldbie
 
Posts: 675
Joined: 2015-5-11 @ 15:52
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Which dual slot1 PIII motherboard ?

Postby okenido » 2018-2-02 @ 21:06

Thank you for your great advices ! Here is the Fujitsu with the VRM module :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FUJITSU-SIEMENS-S26361-D1031-A22-GS4-2x-SLOT1-VRM-/172724060021
Image

Unfortunately the price is ridiculous, I'll try to search for this little module.

The Asus P2B-D are sold at about $250 :depressed:

I searched a bit and people on some forum thread said it should be ok to use any PII/PIII VRM board that fits into the slot. I'm quite doubtful about that

-- EDIT

Found some PII/PIII Intel and HP VRM, they looks quite similar compared to the one that comes with the Fujitsu mobo :

(this Intel looks identical)
Image

Image
Last edited by okenido on 2018-2-02 @ 21:30, edited 8 times in total.
okenido
Newbie
 
Posts: 93
Joined: 2017-9-21 @ 20:42

Re: Which dual slot1 PIII motherboard ?

Postby Skyscraper » 2018-2-02 @ 21:19

Fujitsu-Siemens is (was) a great brand when it comes to quality. Some of their lower end consumer stuff used cheapish motherboards like the Socket 370 Biostar M6VCG but even these hold up very well and all I have seen have worked just fine. On higher end consumer stuff they used top tier motherboards but with their own BIOS or their own motherboards which qualitywise is second to none.

If you manage to find that VRM module for a low cost then 45 euro (or offer) seems like great price for that motherboard.

Also note that this board seems to use the 6 pin auxiliary power connector. It's not a very uncommon connector and many ATX power supplys from year 1999 to 2002 or so have it but it's something to keep in mind. You need to find and download the motherboards manual to see if the 6pin needs to be connected but in any case even if it's not needed it's probably good for voltage stability during heavy load.

https://www.computerhope.com/jargon/a/auxconn.htm
Main PC: Dual Xeon X5690@4.6ghz, Evga - SR-2, 48gb memory, Intel X25-M g2 SSD and a Nvidia GTX 780 Ti.
Retro PC #3: K6-2 450@500mhz, PC-Chips m577, 256mb sdram, AWE64 and a Voodoo Banshee.
Skyscraper
l33t
 
Posts: 3301
Joined: 2013-9-18 @ 15:36
Location: Sweden

Re: Which dual slot1 PIII motherboard ?

Postby dionb » 2018-2-02 @ 21:55

Second the great build quality of Fujitsu-Siemens - but at the same time options are limited -forget 133MHz FSB on it. Then again, EUR 45 is vastly cheaper than those P2B-D(S)s and even than that Gigabyte board.

Note that it's the VRM that needs to be able to supply 1.8V to support Coppermine CPUs, so you need to be sure any VRM you buy can do that.
User avatar
dionb
Oldbie
 
Posts: 546
Joined: 2017-12-23 @ 15:35
Location: Amsterdam

Re: Which dual slot1 PIII motherboard ?

Postby okenido » 2018-2-02 @ 21:56

Well, i'll take the risk. I bought the mobo and found a VRM for 20 euro. Total = 75 euro including shipping !

I hope it's a standard ATX connector, not like some Dell(?) that used perfectly compatible connectors but with swapped mapping... :dead:
okenido
Newbie
 
Posts: 93
Joined: 2017-9-21 @ 20:42

Re: Which dual slot1 PIII motherboard ?

Postby dionb » 2018-2-02 @ 22:09

Never had a F/S dual slot 1 board, but various other ones including a regular Slot 1 affair - all standard ATX as far as I can remember (and if it had been anything else I'm pretty sure I would have remembered the smoke...).
User avatar
dionb
Oldbie
 
Posts: 546
Joined: 2017-12-23 @ 15:35
Location: Amsterdam

Re: Which dual slot1 PIII motherboard ?

Postby Skyscraper » 2018-2-02 @ 22:15

I'm pretty sure Fujitsu-Siemens never used any odd power connector.

If the board actullay needs the 6pin AUX and you dont have a PSU with it you might need to get a cheap used $10 PSU from Ebay with said connector though as the 3.3V makes it hard to use use an adaper or hack on a connector from an old AT PSU.

This one should be perfect if you end up needing to buy a "new" PSU. In my experience Cheiftecs PSUs made by Sirtec holds up pretty well, or at least the ones that survived the first 5 years.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vendo-Aliment ... SwR21ZwWMM
Main PC: Dual Xeon X5690@4.6ghz, Evga - SR-2, 48gb memory, Intel X25-M g2 SSD and a Nvidia GTX 780 Ti.
Retro PC #3: K6-2 450@500mhz, PC-Chips m577, 256mb sdram, AWE64 and a Voodoo Banshee.
Skyscraper
l33t
 
Posts: 3301
Joined: 2013-9-18 @ 15:36
Location: Sweden

Re: Which dual slot1 PIII motherboard ?

Postby okenido » 2018-2-03 @ 22:47

Nice i'll check if I have a power supply with this connecteor.

The VRM I bought seems ok for PIII it uses a HIP6004CB chip which have a 1.3 - 3.5V range : https://www.intersil.com/content/dam/In ... ip6004.pdf

Do you think this motherboard is standard EATX size ? I'd need to buy a case since i only have atx ones :confused:
okenido
Newbie
 
Posts: 93
Joined: 2017-9-21 @ 20:42

Re: Which dual slot1 PIII motherboard ?

Postby luckybob » 2018-2-03 @ 23:32

(how did I miss this thread?)

Its likely to be 90% standard. There might be a few screws that don't line up, or are missing. It's a trivial thing to mod a case to include. That said, I would avoid any chassis that has huge holes in the motherboard tray.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes.
User avatar
luckybob
l33t
 
Posts: 3231
Joined: 2009-4-30 @ 04:43

Re: Which dual slot1 PIII motherboard ?

Postby okenido » 2018-2-12 @ 22:31

Hello !

The motherboard doesn't want to boot with my two PIII 933mhz (133fsb) :(

Image

It will only boot if I put at least one 100mhz fsb CPU (eg : 933mhz/133 + 650mhz/100). I guess only the 650 is recognized.

Do you know a way to make the mobo think it's 100mhz fsb CPUs ? I planned to use my two pIII 933 at 700mhz (133->100mhz fsb)

Strangely, the mobo completely ignores the dip switch frequency settings.

I found the motherboard doc here but it's not very detailed : http://manuals.ts.fujitsu.com/file/3296/d1031-thb-en.pdf

Also, i found NO information about the panel header connector, i ended up finding the power button pins by randomly trying :/
okenido
Newbie
 
Posts: 93
Joined: 2017-9-21 @ 20:42

Re: Which dual slot1 PIII motherboard ?

Postby luckybob » 2018-2-12 @ 22:44

its common to ignore the switch settings except for the FSB. I'd wager you are needing an updated bios. I don't know this machine personally, but hopefully it is available somewhere.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes.
User avatar
luckybob
l33t
 
Posts: 3231
Joined: 2009-4-30 @ 04:43

Re: Which dual slot1 PIII motherboard ?

Postby okenido » 2018-2-13 @ 00:33

I can't find a BIOS anywhere for this motherboard :'(
It's already the A22 revision, not sure there is a higher one... the user manual only mention cpu speeds up to 800mhz/100

I'm trying to look for a pin mod, forcing my pIII 133mhz fsb to look like a 100mhz fsb.

Found that on a forum :
Since on the 133MHz chips both BSEL0(A14) and BSEL1(B21) are already not connected, I think what you need to do is connect A14 to ground.


So it seems i have to connect A14 to the ground to make the CPU looks like 100mhz fsb. Did somebody already tried that ?
okenido
Newbie
 
Posts: 93
Joined: 2017-9-21 @ 20:42

Re: Which dual slot1 PIII motherboard ?

Postby feipoa » 2018-2-13 @ 05:25

I, too, somehow missed this thread. Here are my comments after reading all postings.

Why don't you want dual slot1 from Tyan or SuperMicro? Feature limited BIOSes? I have a dual slot 1 Tyan which I believe does not support the Coppermines. There is a write-up online about how to modify it though.

I also have that Dell 410 board. It is a great performer and is stable, but I also have the Dell 410 case and PSU it came in. Bought it new in 1998. It came with dual PII 400's. It runs fine with Coppermine PIII-850 chips. I have dual Coppermine 1 GHz chips, but for some reason I get system hangs after a few hours of uptime. Not complete hangs though - the mouse still moves, but it will take almost a minute for each click of the mouse to respond to your desired command. It might take you 15 minutes to turn off the computer in this stage This only happens with the dual 1 GHz slot1 chips.

You need an updated firmware to run coppermines. I know A14 works with Coppermines.

Has anyone else had issues using dual 1 GHz Coppermine slot1's in 440BX boards? I'm curious if there is an issue with my CPU(s) or if the issue is just with this MB model, or was it a common issue with 1 GHz?

Do those MSI 6905 Slocket adapters have a VRM on them? Do any of them have the VRM? If so, which? What is that IC on the MSI slocket for?

I tend to agree: Dual slot 1 has a much higher "WOW" factor compared to dual socket 370. If you are going for dual socket 370, I like to get dual Tualatin supporting boards, another difficult find if you want AGP, don't want VIA, and have a limited budget.
User avatar
feipoa
l33t
 
Posts: 4834
Joined: 2011-3-07 @ 13:54
Location: Canada

Re: Which dual slot1 PIII motherboard ?

Postby dionb » 2018-2-13 @ 07:04

feipoa wrote:I, too, somehow missed this thread. Here are my comments after reading all postings.

Why don't you want dual slot1 from Tyan or SuperMicro? Feature limited BIOSes? I have a dual slot 1 Tyan which I believe does not support the Coppermines. There is a write-up online about how to modify it though.

I believe price has something to do with it. A Tyan Thunder 2500 would of course be perfect, but not very likely he could find that for the same price as this Fujitsu-Siemens board ;)
User avatar
dionb
Oldbie
 
Posts: 546
Joined: 2017-12-23 @ 15:35
Location: Amsterdam

Re: Which dual slot1 PIII motherboard ?

Postby luckybob » 2018-2-13 @ 07:12

Yeah well, you get what you pay for.

That thing looks like it has an intel chipset. Probably a 440 affair. it is super unlikely to get anything above 100mhz fsb.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes.
User avatar
luckybob
l33t
 
Posts: 3231
Joined: 2009-4-30 @ 04:43

Re: Which dual slot1 PIII motherboard ?

Postby slivercr » 2018-2-13 @ 09:07

okenido wrote:...
I'm trying to look for a pin mod, forcing my pIII 133mhz fsb to look like a 100mhz fsb.

Found that on a forum :
Since on the 133MHz chips both BSEL0(A14) and BSEL1(B21) are already not connected, I think what you need to do is connect A14 to ground.


So it seems i have to connect A14 to the ground to make the CPU looks like 100mhz fsb. Did somebody already tried that ?

For 133 MHz operation, BSEL0 and BSEL1 are pulled up to 3.3 V with 220 Ohm resistors, 100 MHz needs BSEL0 pulled up and BSEL1 connected to ground (pages 22-23,
Intel ® Pentium ® III Processor for the SC242 at 450 MHz to 1.0 GHz, document number 244452-009). Please refer to datasheets!

If I were you, I'd first try to locate another 650 MHz cpu to check the VRM you bought works properly.

feipoa wrote:...
Do those MSI 6905 Slocket adapters have a VRM on them? Do any of them have the VRM? If so, which? What is that IC on the MSI slocket for?
...


There are a few versions of the MS-6905, I've worked with version 2 quite a bit. They feature a linear regulator to take the 5v coming from the slot and turn them into 2.5v to feed CuMines (pin Z36). The IC is a TVC16222, a 22 bit voltage clamp. It takes various APIC signals from the slot and lowers their voltage for use on the socket.
Outrigger: OR840 / 2x P3-S 1400 / 2 GB RDRAM / QuForce FX 5800 / Voodoo2 SLI / Win2k
User avatar
slivercr
Member
 
Posts: 259
Joined: 2017-2-16 @ 18:00
Location: Groningen

Next

Return to General Old Hardware

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: .legaCy, noshutdown and 2 guests