VOGONS


First post, by BonesK

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

I've been lurking on this forum for a month or so now reading the knowledge base y'all have accumulated, and I must say, I really like the forum. With that out of the way, I've managed to run into an issue that I haven't found an answer for anywhere that someone here might be able to help with.

Upon going through some old boxes, i found my first motherboard. I took it out of it's original case years ago after the power supply and MFM harddrive i had hooked to it at the time failed, put it in the box and pretty much forgot about it. No idea who made it, but that's not really my issue. I've been rebuilding it (I say rebuilding, but it has really been more of planning, and finding parts so far) for fun/nostalgia, but the only original component is the motherboard and the 5.25" floppy drive, and the old MFM card.

Anyhow, after firing it up after all these years, I've got a post error I wanted to run by everyone. First errors are "CMOS Battery State Low" and "CMOS Display Type Mismatch", (different video card, dead battery; replace the battery and fix the setting is easy enough), next one however is "Keyboard Error", which then ask me to press F1 to resume, which doesn't get me far since the keyboard is non responsive. Upon turning it on, the Number, Caps, and Scroll lock keys do light up for a second,then go back off, and the corresponding keys don't turn them back on.

I took this to mean the keyboard was bad, but after checking it on another computer, i found it to be in perfect working order. The AT socket on the board is good, checked it with a continuity tester, so that rules that out. Upon checking http://www.bioscentral.com/postcodes/amibios.htm it list "Keyboard Error" as being caused by a timing error. The timing error thing got me thinking, is it because the keyboard i used is younger than the board, or is that even a thing? (Keyboard has the AT connector, but also has a windows key, so i take that as being pretty late in the AT connector life cycle)
Unable to prove that theory, I've come up with 2 others, either the keyboard chip doesn't like the dead CMOS battery, or maybe the keyboard chip is dead. Any Suggestions?

Thanks in advance, and I'm sorry that that post seems to ramble as much as it does.

Here's a picture of the board, the keyboard used and the POST screen. When the test was done, the only card installed was a VGA card, and the CMOS battery had not yet been removed. Picture of the mother

board was taken after removing the battery.

Motherboard: http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u206/blood … nt/IMG_0439.jpg

POST Screen: http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u206/blood … nt/IMG_0440.jpg

Keyboard: http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u206/blood … nt/IMG_0441.jpg

Reply 1 of 14, by fitzpatr

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

It's hard to make out from your picture. Was the CMOS battery corroded when it was removed, and do you see any damaged traces on the board around that area. Green coloured or swelling.

Last edited by fitzpatr on 2018-05-05, 05:03. Edited 1 time in total.

MT-32 Old, CM-32L, CM-500, SC-55mkII, SC-88Pro, SC-D70, FB-01, MU2000EX
K6-III+/450/GA-5AX/G400 Max/Voodoo2 SLI/CT1750/MPU-401AT/Audigy 2ZS
486 Build

Reply 2 of 14, by weldum

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

maybe the keyboard controller is causing the problem, try cleaning the socket and the chip pins (if socketed).

DT: R7-5800X3D/R5-3600/R3-1200/P-G5400/FX-6100/i3-3225/P-8400/D-900/K6-2_550
LT: C-N2840/A64-TK57/N2600/N455/N270/C-ULV353/PM-1.7/P4-2.6/P133
TC: Esther-1000/Esther-400/Vortex86-366
Others: Drean C64c/Czerweny Spectrum 48k/Talent MSX DPC200/M512K/MP475

Reply 3 of 14, by BonesK

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

There was some corrosion from the battery, but it wasn't to the extent that anything looks obviously damaged.

As for the keyboard controller, it's soldered to the board, and all the solder joints look good. I am considering putting a socket in if it looks like it needs replacement. Guess the good news is, if it comes to it, i've located replacements on ebay.

Reply 4 of 14, by Anonymous Coward

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

If you ever get it going, let me know if you ever have any luck upgrading to a DLC. I've had two of these boards, and although they are supposed to support the DLC, I have never been able to make it work with cache enabled.

"Will the highways on the internets become more few?" -Gee Dubya
V'Ger XT|Upgraded AT|Ultimate 386|Super VL/EISA 486|SMP VL/EISA Pentium

Reply 5 of 14, by PCBONEZ

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Check keyboard port fuse.

GRUMPY OLD FART - On Hiatus, sort'a
Mann-Made Global Warming. - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.

Reply 6 of 14, by PCBONEZ

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

BIOS string says Jetway.

Your pic not so good, their pic not so good, but it appears to be this one.
http://stason.org/TULARC/pc/motherboards/U/UN … VERSION-IV.html

Hope that helps.

GRUMPY OLD FART - On Hiatus, sort'a
Mann-Made Global Warming. - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.

Reply 7 of 14, by mcobit

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Did you measure continuity from the keyboard connector to the controller chip?
Sometimes corrosion can go under the solder mask and cause traces to break without you noticing on first sight.
Does the keyboard get power from the socket?

Edit: Also I hope you desoldered the bad battery.

Reply 8 of 14, by BonesK

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Appreciate the schematic PCBONEZ, it's a really close match. As for checking the keyboard port fuse, this board doesn't appear to have one.

mcobit, Did some tracing back to the chip, and just my luck, Pin 1 on the connector (clock signal per all the pin outs Ive found) isn't making it to the chip. And to complicate matters further, there are no good clues as to where it's supposed to go. Now to search for a pinout for a Jetkey v3.0 so I can shed some light on this one. and yes, the bad battery was removed

Reply 9 of 14, by quicknick

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

KB data and KB clk should have continuity to two pins of the keyboard controller, 1 and 39 (cannot tell now which is which). Check your board for a corroded trace or via in the battery/KB connector area.

Reply 10 of 14, by BonesK

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Good to know. Data is going to pin 39 per my test, so now atleast I can start at pin 1 and work my way backwards to the connector. At the keyboard connector I literally can’t see any evidence of a trace. Must have been a very fine one that got took out completely by the corrosion or it goes under some of the near by components and isn’t easily visible. I’ll let everyone know how it goes

Reply 11 of 14, by BonesK

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Tracked down the path for pin 1 on the chip after i got off work today, did a quick solder job to jump the connection, and it worked like a charm. Many huge thanks everyone for the input, just need to find a few parts and i'll post up a completed picture of the project in the appropriate place. meanwhile, I had forgotten how ugly the colors on the old bios screens were!

Reply 12 of 14, by PCBONEZ

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Congrats!

GRUMPY OLD FART - On Hiatus, sort'a
Mann-Made Global Warming. - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.

Reply 14 of 14, by BonesK

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

mcobit, F2 and F3 do work for that, but i can't believe how i didn't remember the colors clashing that bad. Pretty wild.

PCBONEZ, thanks for the congrats, and thanks again for the link to all the jumpers. Mine seems to have a minor variation based on the screened on fine print on the board, but it really helped point me in the right direction.

As for the direction of the project from here on out, the only things i'm missing at this point is a replacement for the CMOS battery, and some kind of hard drive controller, hopefully with a floppy header on it as well. The old MFM card i have isn't going to be a good fit for this project sadly due in part to the price/availability of drives and also in part due to the physical size. It's just too big for the case i'm using.

From here on out, it all depends on what i can find or buy on the an extreme budget. I'm only $20USD into this project so far (vga video card) and am really hoping to keep the total end cost under $50USD. Giving great consideration into doing a build log in the appropriate sub-forum, but it might all feel a bit too bland and unoriginal to make it worth the effort.