VOGONS


First post, by Jed118

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Hello all,

So I got a JUKO NEST board, practically NIB with an NEC V30 fitted (so it is the 8086 version of the board) only because I needed a true XT board to test out a real Model F keyboard. This is a nice board, it's clean, came with the utilities and a decently photocopied manual. I already made a copy of the software, I'll upload it to the drivers site soon (not too sure how to do that ATM but will look into it tomorrow).

It also came with a NIB 8087-1, sealed with the original receipt from 1988 or so.

Turns out, this board supports 44256 chips, which I had lying around, so I contacted the seller and I picked it up today. After swapping in some 80NS parity chips (the board came with 100NS ones) and filling it with 1024k of RAM, I cobbled together an ATI VGA Wonder (after setting it to EGA mode, 8 bit bus) and an IO card on which the IDE didn't work anyhow and set the jumpers. Initially a Keyboard Locked error appeared, but the manual had a jumper I could set to unlock the keyboard (J4 I think) so I did that.

Won't boot. I tried different cables, different drives and controller cards (5.25 and 3.5, all HD but used 360k and 1.2Mb diskettes in them, as well as 1.44Mb) with different DOS versions as well as original DOS 5 diskettes and nothing but PLEASE INSERT SYSTEM DISK INTO A AND PRESS ANY KEY. I even tried an AT keyboard (this BIOS seems to not care what's plugged in) and it kept asking for the boot disk. It does try to seek something in the drive each time, but I think it doesn't like what it's finding, or it thinks something else is present - the selection of number of floppy drives ranges from 1 to 4(!) but nothing about drive types/densities.

However, I was able to test the model F in a roundabout way, as each time I pressed a key, the drive would start up and then re-prompt me to insert a system disk. I pressed each key and I was able to test them all except for shift, caps, num lock. ALT and CTRL were tested with the DEL key. So, in conclusion, the XT motherboard served its very limited purpose. However, since it's all hooked up and I have the manual, I would like to see it boot and get some diags working, comparing it to a real XT and perhaps a 5150, or some other AT machines (or my own 386 SX/16)

Let me guess - I need a low density drive for that, huh?

Pics:

https://imgur.com/a/GAyWglq

Last edited by Jed118 on 2018-05-17, 19:20. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 1 of 54, by keropi

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Nice find! V30 stuff is rare - at least where I live...
And you are correct, xt-class machines work only with low density drives and judging from your tests this is also the case for your setup... Maybe you'll be able to write a bios rom with HD-FDD support added or use an xt-ide controller ?
These are the kind of inconvenient things that xt ownership comes with 🤣

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Reply 2 of 54, by Anonymous Coward

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Nice, I'll be looking forward to seeing a scan of the manual and a copy of the disk. I've had one of these boards for a while, and always wondered if there was anything interesting hidden in the manual.

As far as I can tell the BIOS does not support HD floppies. You're going to have to boot with a 360k or 720 diskette. I suggest XT-IDE as soon as possible.

Did you say this board supports AT keyboards?

"Will the highways on the internets become more few?" -Gee Dubya
V'Ger XT|Upgraded AT|Ultimate 386|Super VL/EISA 486|SMP VL/EISA Pentium

Reply 3 of 54, by Jed118

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^^^^ I tried low density diskettes in high density drives, but it looks likeit knows they're high density drives. I *seem* to remember this issue when working on XT computers and drives in the middle of the 90s (but I was a kid then, literally) but because that was so long ago, I can't clearly recall the workaround, or even if there was one.

I'm tempted to pull apart my Hyperion machine and pull a 360k out of there (hopefully the interface is standard?) but I'm swamped with other projects of the car nature now as it is warming up and can scarcely spend the time on it. Unless I come across a low density drive soon, this will get re-sold as it has theoretically served its purpose.

It does not give me a keyboard error when I plug in an AT 101 key and boot up (even the three LED lights light up as they would in an AT POST on say, my 286 and 386) and it does respond to commands (at least, when I press the button down when it asks for another diskette) but what scan code it sends to the computer and if it maps properly, I can't be certain of until I find a low density drive.

I'll upload the utilities today if I can. I really want to try them out, as it looks like you can change the speed on the fly with a TSR program! 4.7, 7, and 10 MHz options. I wonder what that does to the Turbo LED. The manual will have to wait, but don't hold your breath, it's not terribly exciting (and has a decent amount of Engrish in it) and overall not too badly written.

Is there any way to boot this up otherwise?

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Reply 4 of 54, by carlostex

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Congrats on finding this board. I did look for one for quite a while but these are very rare and hard to find. I mitigated this by now owning a Tandy 1000 SL which i very succesfully overclocked by over 100%. Tandy were conservative with the SL as making it too fast would remove market for the TL.

You can always try and use an ISA NIC for its boot ROM, there are plenty of HD floppy BIOSes out there.

Reply 5 of 54, by Anonymous Coward

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That tandy with the decoupled ISA bus is super cool. I didn't even know that was possible with an XT. I wish they were all like that...and I wish there were faster 8087s too.

"Will the highways on the internets become more few?" -Gee Dubya
V'Ger XT|Upgraded AT|Ultimate 386|Super VL/EISA 486|SMP VL/EISA Pentium

Reply 6 of 54, by Jed118

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Would it be possible to use an 80287 on an 8086 based board, or are they not pin-compatible? IIRC there's some 25 MHz 286s, so there may even be co-pros that high.

I have several ISA NICs, how would/what do I look for? Only one is 3COM with RJ45, the other two are BNC/Vampire tap. Any way to use those, especially the latter, as they're somewhat useless to me.

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Reply 7 of 54, by Jed118

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Attached is the JUKO NEST utility diskette contents. Please upload it to your driver site.

Attachments

  • Filename
    JUKO.zip
    File size
    8.98 KiB
    Downloads
    234 downloads
    File comment
    JUKO NEST files. Cache.sys speeds up your disk access 10 times! (according to manual), control.com changes speed on the fly, EMS.sys creates 384K of EMS RAM (1024k setup only) and RDISK.sys makes a RAM disk file. Manual says to put them into config.sys, but not all at once as they all contend for the 384K of reserved memory.

    Enjoy!
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception

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Reply 8 of 54, by Anonymous Coward

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I already looked into the 80187 and the 80287. I don't believe it's possible to interface either to an 8086. The 80187 is actually very similar the 80287XL in many ways, but I don't believe they're pin compatible either.

I also had a crazy idea to interface an 8087 to an 8086 running at half the speed of the CPU, but I don't believe that's possible either. Those chips interface in a very unique way and I don't think it's possible to decouple them.

BTW, I think you're right about IIT FPUs going up to 25MHz. I know for a fact they made a -20. I think there is a -25 as well, but it must be very rare.

"Will the highways on the internets become more few?" -Gee Dubya
V'Ger XT|Upgraded AT|Ultimate 386|Super VL/EISA 486|SMP VL/EISA Pentium

Reply 9 of 54, by Jed118

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I recall seeing a Harris 25MHz up for grabs on a Polish auction site.

indeed, it exists!

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/80286/Harris-CS80C286-25.html

Oh well actually that's for the CPU.

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Reply 10 of 54, by ReL

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Jed118 wrote:
I recall seeing a Harris 25MHz up for grabs on a Polish auction site. […]
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I recall seeing a Harris 25MHz up for grabs on a Polish auction site.

indeed, it exists!

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/80286/Harris-CS80C286-25.html

Oh well actually that's for the CPU.

this is my Harris 25MHZ 😀
ywNoJh2h.jpg

Reply 12 of 54, by ReL

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mrau wrote:

what do You do with it? do You have an ems board? show us the innards please?

Conf:
Motherboard : PC 286 Advanced Computer Technology
Cpu: HARRIS CS80286-25
Memory: 4 Mb SIMM 1Mb x 4
Hdd: Western Digital Caviar 170 Mb 3,5" Ide
Fdd: 1.2 Mb 5.25", 1,44Mb 3,5", Streamer COLORADO Jumbo Tape 60 Mb
Vga: Super Vga UMC UM85C408 kartica 1Mb

I have ems memory, the computer was made when I was born, it was intended for games of course it is stronger than 386sx-25, they can not see the processor because it would be easy to remove the power since it is below it ..

cuoiVvvh.jpg
ku25MSJh.jpg

Reply 13 of 54, by ReL

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Jed118 wrote:

So I got a JUKO NEST board, practically NIB with an NEC V30 fitted

I have this board that is a bit like yours to the same thing about JUKU only a different model, so here I share with you..

CPU is NEC V20

jDCBtF0h.jpg

Reply 16 of 54, by Jed118

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Hmmm without parity (shakes finger) - I guess for a test it's OK. Do you have a manual for it?

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Reply 17 of 54, by ReL

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Jed118 wrote:

Hmmm without parity (shakes finger) - I guess for a test it's OK. Do you have a manual for it?

This is one of my old motherboards, I have the parity and memory to put in it, I just removed it since I have a lot of boards that use this memory this one can work from now with a 256k boot system which is quite enough

yea i have manual
https://imgur.com/gY1ccBW

Reply 18 of 54, by Jed118

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Looks like yours supports the Parity Off option too. I've got EGA selection on mine. Curiously, mine supports min 512K of RAM.

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Reply 19 of 54, by Jed118

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Attached is the manual. Someone please upload it to the manuals site.

(Edit - it's a scan of a photocopy, it was hard to keep straight, however it is legible)

Attachments

  • Filename
    juko.pdf
    File size
    2.53 MiB
    Downloads
    331 downloads
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception

Youtube channel- The Kombinator
What's for sale? my eBay!