If you are going to stay with DOS games than a voodoo 1 with a s3 virge 2d card offers the best compatibility. A voodoo banshee isn't a back pick either. It does 2d really fast and is faster in glide, but you will have to edit some config files to get the rare game that only supports voodoo 1 working in glide mode. Finding a PCI version might be a little bit harder too, but they are definitely some out there.

I have read that the image quality on early voodoo cards isn't always as good, so a card with 2d and 3d accelerators might offer better performance and better image quality for not a lot of down sides, assuming you can fine a PCI version.

A super socket 7 board with a voodoo 3 would be the minimum if you want to do some windows gaming. It supports AGP, but it is really buggy, so a slot 1 or better board would be more ideal if you wanted to get a geforce 256 or something like that. Super socket 7 boards with a k6 2+ or a k6 III+ CPU can be configured to run different speeds in software, are a popular choice for DOS + windows gaming PCs. Finding the right parts can be a little harder though (or at least it was for me) and also sometimes a bit more expensive.

mothergoose729 wrote:

If you are going to stay with DOS games than a voodoo 1 with a s3 virge 2d card offers the best compatibility. A voodoo banshee isn't a back pick either. It does 2d really fast and is faster in glide, but you will have to edit some config files to get the rare game that only supports voodoo 1 working in glide mode. Finding a PCI version might be a little bit harder too, but they are definitely some out there.

I have read that the image quality on early voodoo cards isn't always as good, so a card with 2d and 3d accelerators might offer better performance and better image quality for not a lot of down sides, assuming you can fine a PCI version.

A super socket 7 board with a voodoo 3 would be the minimum if you want to do some windows gaming. It supports AGP, but it is really buggy, so a slot 1 or better board would be more ideal if you wanted to get a geforce 256 or something like that. Super socket 7 boards with a k6 2+ or a k6 III+ CPU can be configured to run different speeds in software, are a popular choice for DOS + windows gaming PCs. Finding the right parts can be a little harder though (or at least it was for me) and also sometimes a bit more expensive.

Cheers. Yep this one would be for DOS gaming, I have a Tualatin with a GeForce4 Ti and the P3-600 V2 SLI so a Voodoo1 or similar build would have DOS games covered.

A 2D+3D card would be fine but other than a Voodoo I’m just stuck choosing one of the era that’ll perform well in both 2D and 3D by comparison.

A Voodoo Rush would be a nice period correct card but most advise against it as it’s slower than a standalone Voodoo1? But probably still faster than it’s competitors.

I like the idea of the K6 and being able to change CPU speeds to make a more versatile system.

britain4 wrote:

Looking for recommendations on a 3D GPU for a 1997-ish Pentium 1 gaming build... obvious choice would be a Voodoo 1 (or perhaps 2) but are there any really worthwhile alternatives performing similarly?

In case of DOS, forget the Voodoo. The DOS games supporting it can be counted on the fingers of a somewhat amputated hand.

Also just out of interest were there ever any other 3D-only chips that required a 2D card as I can only find the 3DFX stuff?

Chips & cards are apples and oranges, but that aside, yes there were other types of 3D accelerator that needed a secondary card. PowerVR's PCX-series immediately come to mind, as does Creative's 3D Blaster VLB (a VLB standalone 3D accelerator).

The only cards I have on hand are an ATI Rage Pro Turbo which is in a system with 2 Voodoo2s in SLI, and I don’t want to split those up, and a Voodoo3 which is a bit too new. Also the card needs to be PCI really

Tbh, for DOS, go with an S3 Virge. Best VESA compatibility and 2nd half 1990s performance to go with it. Plus cheap&easy to find.

dionb wrote:

In case of DOS, forget the Voodoo. The DOS games supporting it can be counted on the fingers of a somewhat amputated hand.

3dfx was by far the best supported 3d hardware acceleration vendor for DOS, far ahead of Rendition, Creative, and the others.
Revised list of Voodoo games for DOS.

dionb wrote:

In case of DOS, forget the Voodoo. The DOS games supporting it can be counted on the fingers of a somewhat amputated hand. […]
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britain4 wrote:

Looking for recommendations on a 3D GPU for a 1997-ish Pentium 1 gaming build... obvious choice would be a Voodoo 1 (or perhaps 2) but are there any really worthwhile alternatives performing similarly?

In case of DOS, forget the Voodoo. The DOS games supporting it can be counted on the fingers of a somewhat amputated hand.

Also just out of interest were there ever any other 3D-only chips that required a 2D card as I can only find the 3DFX stuff?

Chips & cards are apples and oranges, but that aside, yes there were other types of 3D accelerator that needed a secondary card. PowerVR's PCX-series immediately come to mind, as does Creative's 3D Blaster VLB (a VLB standalone 3D accelerator).
[q]The only cards I have on hand are an ATI Rage Pro Turbo which is in a system with 2 Voodoo2s in SLI, and I don’t want to split those up, and a Voodoo3 which is a bit too new. Also the card needs to be PCI really

Tbh, for DOS, go with an S3 Virge. Best VESA compatibility and 2nd half 1990s performance to go with it. Plus cheap&easy to find.[/quote]

Well, the ideal combo seems to be a Voodoo1 and an S3 Virge to make the system more versatile with the Windows 3D stuff. Thanks for the info about the standalone 3D accelerators, that’s interesting. I know I’m getting my terminology mixed up, it was very late when I wrote that haha.

Looks like I’ve found my combo, now just to wait for some to turn up at a reasonable price (very mad I missed out on a pair of cheap Voodoo1s on eBay, I bid but got sniped)

In my active socket 7 MMX 233 DOS (and W9x, from time to time) macine, I first started with Matrox Millenium + Voodoo 2 since they were the best on my hands at that time. It was a fun and non-problematic setup to play with. Later on, I miraculously had a chance to grab a Voodoo 3 PCI locally, now it is in the rig and I'm more than happy, too.

To say the truth, I've never been a PC (i.e.: period correct 🤣) type of guy, and I always believe the best kill is the overkill when it comes to retro rigs. I had been dealing with enough of these shitty below spec computers back in the day, so today, I just don't want to. 😊

I suggest both options above as good ones (providing that it also very much depends on what you wanted to do).

Most S3 cards seem to have their black level set wrong, fixable but another thing to deal with.

Back in the day, I ran a Diamond Viper v330 (Riva 128) card. It is period correct and was top of the line for the time. I paired it with a Voodoo 1. When I recently rebuilt that system, I did the same thing.

I'm under the impression you are building a 9x system. What adds to the nostalgia for me is, Tom's Hardware and AnandTech still have reviews published on the card. That, for me, reinforces the choice being a good one. I can almost remember reading the reviews 20 years ago and making my choice to by it then. Its fun to be able to read those some reviews 20 years later.

Diamond Stealth 3D 2000 also works wonders

virge with a voodoo 1, virge is near perfect dos compatibility, and v1 is v1.

I’m going to try for a Virge and a V1 I think, or if I can’t find another V1 I might use a V2. Seriously annoyed I managed to miss out on the ones on eBay, I would have bid double what they went for if I hadn’t forgot and it still would have been a fair price...

I know the Voodoo Rush is a bit slower than a Voodoo1 but not sure if it’s a good option or not?

For early 3D gaming well within the scope of P1, and still maintaining the best compatibility.

One of the following (with 2mb):
- Cirrus Logic 5446 PCI.
- S3-Trio64v+ PCI
- S3-Virge325 PCI

And combine with a Voodoo1. That is the combo that I have had the best compatibility-vs-speed with, when dealing with a Pentium1 system.

lvader wrote:

Most S3 cards seem to have their black level set wrong, fixable but another thing to deal with.

That is why I love CL5446. Better black level, perfect picture quality, warmer color. Yet the speed is a bit lower than Virge325 or Trio64. If you game on lowest resolution, you will not really notice any speed difference.

It all boils down to if you want slightly faster or slightly better picture.

Thanks for all the advice guys. Most common choice seems to be an S3 VIRGE 325 so that's what I went for. Just need to find a Voodoo1 or maybe a Voodoo2 now (the former would be more period correct but the latter a little easier to find and obviously higher performing)

I have a brand new beige desktop case on the way now (£15 but nearly as much again in shipping 🙁 ), a socket 7 board with CPU and RAM which was a gamble if it doesn't work then I will have to rethink the plans, optical + floppy drives, just need to pick a hard drive and find a PSU and a sound card (I do have an ESS Audiodrive in my V2 SLI system at the moment which I may transfer to this one as that's mainly going to be for Windows) and it'll be ready to build!

brostenen wrote:

lvader wrote:

Most S3 cards seem to have their black level set wrong, fixable but another thing to deal with.

That is why I love CL5446. Better black level, perfect picture quality, warmer color. Yet the speed is a bit lower than Virge325 or Trio64. If you game on lowest resolution, you will not really notice any speed difference.

It all boils down to if you want slightly faster or slightly better picture.

Do you know anything about the CL5434 and how it compares to a 5446? Reason I ask is that I do have another socket 7 system I trash picked years ago (wish these were still turning up in skips) with integrated CL5434 video which would be perfect for just adding a Voodoo1 or 2 info along with maybe a faster CPU.

britain4 wrote:

Thanks for all the advice guys. Most common choice seems to be an S3 VIRGE 325 so that's what I went for. Just need to find a Voodoo1 or maybe a Voodoo2 now (the former would be more period correct but the latter a little easier to find and obviously higher performing)

I have a brand new beige desktop case on the way now (£15 but nearly as much again in shipping 🙁 ), a socket 7 board with CPU and RAM which was a gamble if it doesn't work then I will have to rethink the plans, optical + floppy drives, just need to pick a hard drive and find a PSU and a sound card (I do have an ESS Audiodrive in my V2 SLI system at the moment which I may transfer to this one as that's mainly going to be for Windows) and it'll be ready to build!

Sounds like a nice build. I would love to see pics. If the Socket 7 board doesn't work for you I have an Asus TX97-XV or an Intel E139761 (socket 7) I can help you with. Where did you find the case? Honestly, the hardest things I've found to source are cases. I also have a group of period correct sound cards and a Voodoo I i would be willing to part with. Shipping to the EU can be painful though.

Side bar; Vogons needs a marketplace.

britain4 wrote:

brostenen wrote:

lvader wrote:

Most S3 cards seem to have their black level set wrong, fixable but another thing to deal with.

That is why I love CL5446. Better black level, perfect picture quality, warmer color. Yet the speed is a bit lower than Virge325 or Trio64. If you game on lowest resolution, you will not really notice any speed difference.

It all boils down to if you want slightly faster or slightly better picture.

Do you know anything about the CL5434 and how it compares to a 5446? Reason I ask is that I do have another socket 7 system I trash picked years ago (wish these were still turning up in skips) with integrated CL5434 video which would be perfect for just adding a Voodoo1 or 2 info along with maybe a faster CPU.

I am sorry to say, that I have no data on the 5434.
I do however tried a 5430-PCI, and that was a big letdown compared to 5446 and the two S3's that I have mentioned. The 5430 was slow and it had shitty image quality. Anyway...

Phil's computerlab has a video with benchmarks and such, that takes vesa-compatibility into the test as well. I think he mentioned, that it depends on what TSR's you are running, what price you can get them for and what image quality you are going for.

pico1180 wrote:

britain4 wrote:

Thanks for all the advice guys. Most common choice seems to be an S3 VIRGE 325 so that's what I went for. Just need to find a Voodoo1 or maybe a Voodoo2 now (the former would be more period correct but the latter a little easier to find and obviously higher performing)

I have a brand new beige desktop case on the way now (£15 but nearly as much again in shipping 🙁 ), a socket 7 board with CPU and RAM which was a gamble if it doesn't work then I will have to rethink the plans, optical + floppy drives, just need to pick a hard drive and find a PSU and a sound card (I do have an ESS Audiodrive in my V2 SLI system at the moment which I may transfer to this one as that's mainly going to be for Windows) and it'll be ready to build!

Sounds like a nice build. I would love to see pics. If the Socket 7 board doesn't work for you I have an Asus TX97-XV or an Intel E139761 (socket 7) I can help you with. Where did you find the case? Honestly, the hardest things I've found to source are cases. I also have a group of period correct sound cards and a Voodoo I i would be willing to part with. Shipping to the EU can be painful though.

Side bar; Vogons needs a marketplace.

Thanks, I hope so. Cases are tough but there’s Evercase in the EU who sell new beige cases, I got mine from acmetechnologyltd on eBay.

Thanks for the heads up on the parts!

No worries about the 5434 brostenen, I cant imagine it setting the world on fire being integrated graphics from 1996 so I might have to rethink it...

I am personally using a CL-5446-PCI in my 5x86-133 build and my DX4-120 build uses one as well for the moment (going to use S3-805-Vlb and SCSI-Vlb in the near future).

The DX4-120 uses a VLB/PCI/ISA motherboard. The FIC 486-VIP-IO. It has weak PCI, yet the VLB is fine. (Not perfect)

My P1-166-nonMMX have an S3-Trio64vx and Orchid Voodoo1.