VOGONS


Reply 21 of 43, by appiah4

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cxm717 wrote:

I didn't notice the 98 part, my bad. The TNT2 isn't a 98 card either though

Yes it is.

EDIT: Wikipedia lists it as such but apparently it's early 1999? Regardless, it's much closer than the G450. A TNT PCI would be ideal but they are really rare I guess.

Last edited by appiah4 on 2018-06-04, 23:09. Edited 1 time in total.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 22 of 43, by cxm717

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appiah4 wrote:
cxm717 wrote:

I didn't notice the 98 part, my bad. The TNT2 isn't a 98 card either though

Yes, it is.

Do you have any proof? I had a quick look and Maximum pc had a pre release article in the april 99 issue. The anandtech review is from 99 also. Maybe the OEM versions were in 98?

Edit: I guess TNT PCI or Matrox G200 PCI. The TNT is faster IIRC

Reply 23 of 43, by dionb

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Of course you could stay period correct and get acceleration in Quake II and Tomb Raider with a Verite Rendition 2x00 PCI card too.

But in between all this stuff being discussed I am sort of missing the OP's input...

Reply 24 of 43, by Deksor

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But these aren't either 1998 cards. A riva TNT would be period correct and will probably perform as fast if not faster than voodoo 2

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Reply 25 of 43, by Aglenoth

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Thanks everyone , Iam really interested in using Nvidia TNT even iam in team Red , If I would want something midrange where should i look , I might also get S3 Savage 3 8mb , is it decent performer ?

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Pentium II 266 MHz
Diamond Voodoo Monster II 12 Mb
S3 trio 64v+ 2Mb
ESS AudioDrive 1868f
10Gb fireball HDD
256 Mb Ram
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Reply 26 of 43, by Aglenoth

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Even tho iam using 98´ cpu the PC iam using was manufactured in 2000 its Compaq Presario 7479 which I got in mint condition with all official peripherals, so for 30$ iam quite pleased 😀

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Pentium II 266 MHz
Diamond Voodoo Monster II 12 Mb
S3 trio 64v+ 2Mb
ESS AudioDrive 1868f
10Gb fireball HDD
256 Mb Ram
------------------------------------------------

Reply 27 of 43, by lazibayer

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Aglenoth wrote:

Thanks everyone , Iam really interested in using Nvidia TNT even iam in team Red , If I would want something midrange where should i look , I might also get S3 Savage 3 8mb , is it decent performer ?

No, it's quite slow.

Reply 28 of 43, by appiah4

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lazibayer wrote:
Aglenoth wrote:

Thanks everyone , Iam really interested in using Nvidia TNT even iam in team Red , If I would want something midrange where should i look , I might also get S3 Savage 3 8mb , is it decent performer ?

No, it's quite slow.

It's halfway between a Riva 128 and Riva TNT, it's basically on par with a Voodoo Banshee so no, it's not that bad. I would say it's more interesting than the TNT even, but that's just me.

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Reply 29 of 43, by dionb

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Fate has this way of making you eat your words...

Today I picked up a huge load of old hardware including about 15 VGA cards. The first one I looked at: TNT2-M64. PCI 😜

So they do exist over here in EU too. But from my sampling (and I sample *lots* of big batches of cards, in which 1998-2002 cards tend to dominate) I can still say they are uncommon in NL at least.

As for the S3 Savage4, is that a PCI card? They tend to be AGP too. Savage is a whole different kettle of fish to 3DFx and nVidia, with some very strong points (forget Quake, play UT99 with S3 Metal) but generally weak drivers. Just like with 3DFx, the community drivers made after the mother company's demise are far better than the original ones. I forget exactly which ones were good, but be prepared to dig and do quite a bit of trial and error to find the best ones for any given card.

Reply 30 of 43, by brostenen

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TNT-PCI are rare? Why?
Is it because not enough people bought them or is it something else?

Anyway. I can only say thumbs up for the Diamond Viper V550.
It has good picture quality, and can manage a little over 4500 3dMark99 points on a P4-1,8ghz.
Disabling V-Synch makes the card crash on that beefy CPU. Yeah I know, it is way overkill.
(I just had to test it out. Could not help myself) 😁

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

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Reply 31 of 43, by matze79

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don't get a m64, thats crippled tnt2.

even a proper savage 4 performs better, and if you play rune you can also play in s3 metal which looks great 😁

best bet for k6, get a 3dfx.

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Reply 32 of 43, by wiretap

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I picked up a Creative Voodoo Banshee for $32 (US) shipped on Ebay a few weeks ago. I'd call that pretty cheap. Just set search alerts for when they get listed, and use the Ebay bucks promos & coupon codes. They have routinely been offering 15-20% off promo codes.

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Reply 33 of 43, by dr.zeissler

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appiah4 wrote:

G450 PCI is an overall fantastic card but not a 1998 card...

G450 PCI?
- No Win3x drivers
- 64bit memory-bus

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Reply 34 of 43, by appiah4

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dr.zeissler wrote:
G450 PCI? - No Win3x drivers - 64bit memory-bus […]
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appiah4 wrote:

G450 PCI is an overall fantastic card but not a 1998 card...

G450 PCI?
- No Win3x drivers
- 64bit memory-bus

Yeah but what do Win3x drivers mean for a 1998 build?

64-bit DDR memory isn't that much slower than 128-bit SDR memory.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 35 of 43, by dr.zeissler

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TNT1/2 has Win3x drivers. Would be an "additional value".
I think the Savage4 has Win3x drivers and s3tc which tnt/tnt2 don't have.

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Reply 36 of 43, by dionb

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appiah4 wrote:
dr.zeissler wrote:
G450 PCI? - No Win3x drivers - 64bit memory-bus […]
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appiah4 wrote:

G450 PCI is an overall fantastic card but not a 1998 card...

G450 PCI?
- No Win3x drivers
- 64bit memory-bus

Yeah but what do Win3x drivers mean for a 1998 build?

I was still running WFW3.1 in 1998, didn't upgrade to 9x untill 98SE in 1999 😜

But OP is clear that this thing will be running Win9x, so irrelevant indeed.

64-bit DDR memory isn't that much slower than 128-bit SDR memory.

The G450 is slower than the G400 - but that just means its performance is somewhere between TNT and TNT2 instead of solidly equalling TNT2 levels. I generally wouldn't consider it a gaming card, but it can do the job well enough. Added bonus is the sharpest, crispest VGA images you can get at high Windows desktop resolutions. When I had a monitor that could do 1600x900 reliably at 85Hz refresh (45kg Sony w900) I tried several cards before settling on the G450. It might not have been my fastest option, but it ran UT99 fine and at least there was no nasty shadowing due to bad analog filters.

In the end, it sounds like OP isn't spoiled for choice so he should just get whatever more-or-less 1998 or later PCI VGA he can find for his budget.

Reply 37 of 43, by dr.zeissler

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sharp and crisp output is really true. I have a r7000-pci installed in one of my retro-systems.
i have ordered a r9250/256mb/128bit ddr just recently. it should be a lot better.
the r7000 is not bad, it has a very good image-quality in vga and dvi but some performance
and some compatibility issues with some games. but it is indeed a very good retro-card.

Retro-Gamer 😀PowerMac 6100-66/Houdini 486/66 - G4 Cube 450/Rage128pro OS9.0.1 - Macintosh LC/Apple IIe Card OS6.0.8 - Acorn A4000 Archimedes - Unisys CWD 486/66 + Aztech Washington

Reply 38 of 43, by lazibayer

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dionb wrote:
Fate has this way of making you eat your words... […]
Show full quote

Fate has this way of making you eat your words...

Today I picked up a huge load of old hardware including about 15 VGA cards. The first one I looked at: TNT2-M64. PCI 😜

So they do exist over here in EU too. But from my sampling (and I sample *lots* of big batches of cards, in which 1998-2002 cards tend to dominate) I can still say they are uncommon in NL at least.

As for the S3 Savage4, is that a PCI card? They tend to be AGP too. Savage is a whole different kettle of fish to 3DFx and nVidia, with some very strong points (forget Quake, play UT99 with S3 Metal) but generally weak drivers. Just like with 3DFx, the community drivers made after the mother company's demise are far better than the original ones. I forget exactly which ones were good, but be prepared to dig and do quite a bit of trial and error to find the best ones for any given card.

Savage4 is also a 1999 card. If the OP is OK with cards made after 1998, either TNT2 M64, Savage4, or G450 would be good choice.

Reply 39 of 43, by lazibayer

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appiah4 wrote:

It's halfway between a Riva 128 and Riva TNT, it's basically on par with a Voodoo Banshee so no, it's not that bad. I would say it's more interesting than the TNT even, but that's just me.

It's quite slow for being a 1998 card. Banshee has 128bit memory bus so it would be faster in high res or 32bit color. Savage3D is more like Riva128ZX. It only suits if the OP is really into MeTaL games and wouldn't consider Savage4.