VOGONS


First post, by KCompRoom2000

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

...does it seem like I have pretty bad luck when it comes to scoring old computer hardware?

For example: The first time I went to RE-PC back in June 2013, I was in need of a computer for 9x gaming, the oldest machines I've found in their complete systems (including without operating systems) selection are a generic beige K6 tower of some sort and a Dell Dimension 4300S, between those two systems, the one I chose ended up being the Dell. Also, I felt like getting components to build an Athlon XP rig to fill up a spare case, the motherboard I chose was a Chaintech 7NIL1 which (along with the Dell) was mentioned by yours truly in a thread for discussing hardware that you regret buying due to interference with the dead (and idiotically soldered on) CMOS battery. Due to the problems I've had with that motherboard in conjunction with the impatience of the typical 13-year old kid that I was at that time, I ended up settling for the Dell. That too was problematic due to me resorting to a sound card shopping spree thanks to its shitty Analog Devices chipset not supporting DirectSound, but that's not the only reason I hated buying that system later on, the other reason is that the Dell Dimension 4300S has some garbage specs (Willamette Pentium 4, Low-profile AGP, AND PC-133 SDRAM? no thanks) and I didn't even know that it sucked until after I joined this forum. 😢

Another example is when I finally realized I was doing my 9x setup wrong and bought a different computer to use instead, I bought an ATI Radeon 7200 graphics card because some fool here claimed it had better image quality than the Geforce cards from the same era. As I'm sure you know, image quality isn't everything and the ATI cards lack a couple important features (table fog and 8-bit palettized textures) that some DX3-5 games needed, as a result I recently replaced the Radeon with a Geforce4 Ti4200 to rectify that gap.

And (although more of a stupid rant based on a misinterpretation) one final example is the motherboard in my Slotket Celeron build, originally it had an ASUS P2B-VT motherboard with a VIA Apollo Pro (can't remember if it was 133) and an integrated nVidia Riva TNT video card, but when my Dell E773c CRT died in 2015, it took the video chipset's VGA port with it. Instead of simply buying some sort of AGP video card to use in place of the non-functional RIVA, I ended up replacing the P2B-VT board with a P2B-VE which has an Intel 440BX chipset and integrated ATI Rage (non-128) Pro video. In terms of reliability, it was a godsend because I no longer had to deal with the prior issues I had with the P2B-VT board (i.e. CD drives losing functionality upon reboot and having to manually turn off the computer due to an incompatibility with Windows 95's APM/ACPI implementation), but in terms of features (particularly the video chipset), it was worse and I didn't realize it until after I came here, (Stupidity starts here) once I read the arguments on VIA vs Intel chipsets, I immediately felt like a fool for replacing a defective VIA motherboard with a working 440BX motherboard (but that was before I realized that kanecvr's comment was targeted towards people using the 440BX chipset in builds where it shows its age - particularly Tualeron and late Coppermine builds). In addition, sometimes people here say bad things about ATI video cards from the 9x-era due to weaker (compared to S3) DOS compatibility, poor 3D performance, and (on newer models) lack of the two features mentioned above. With that put into consideration, I probably should've bought a Slot 1/early Socket 370 board without integrated video and just used a regular old AGP/PCI video card of some sort instead. (End of stupidity)

Does anyone else here have the same problem as me?

EDIT: Added a stupidity bracket in the last paragraph so you know when to ignore the misinterpretation towards the chipset differences.

Last edited by KCompRoom2000 on 2018-06-29, 20:37. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 3, by canthearu

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
KCompRoom2000 wrote:

I immediately felt like a fool for replacing a defective VIA motherboard with a working 440BX motherboard. In addition, sometimes people here say bad things about ATI video cards from the 9x-era due to weaker (compared to S3) DOS compatibility, poor 3D performance, and (on newer models) lack of the two features mentioned above. With that put into consideration, I probably should've bought a Slot 1/early Socket 370 board without integrated video and just used a regular old AGP/PCI video card of some sort instead.

What the hell are you carrying on about.

First of all, working motherboard is ALWAYS better than defective motherboard.

Secondly, the Intel 440BX is a good chipset. It probably isn't suitable for much beyond a PII or PII at 500mhz-600mhz, but below that, it is a kickarse chipset. Don't worry about ATA66/100 or AGP 4x/8x, as at the speeds that the 440BX chipset is good for, the CPU becomes a much more significant bottleneck. The good things going for the 440BX are excellent overall PCI and ISA compatibility, strong software compatibility and excellent memory performance (for the CPUs it is good with).

Thirdly, looking at the picture of the motherboard, if you run into problems due to lack of performance or compatibility of the onboard ATI video solution, you have an AGP slot. So if your onboard video doesn't work out, just drop in a Geforce 4 MX board, they are basically like cockroaches, everywhere and for really cheap prices. They are a good match for the lower end performance of the sub 500mhz PII. Edit: Use rivatuner to enable 8bit palette support on the Geforce 4 MX if that is important for your games.

As long as you didn't pay through the nose for the 440BX board or are trying to run a > 750mhz CPU on it, I wouldn't worry about it at all.

Edit 2: But no, your definitely not the only person who has to go through a heap of hardware to find the best working stuff. A lot of people will post about the awesome hardware they assembled, but many don't spell out too much of the trials and tribulations that it took to get here. For me, this is half the fun.

Reply 3 of 3, by KCompRoom2000

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Okay, looking back at this thread, I realized that the whole VIA Apollo v.s. Intel 440BX thing was a misinterpretation because as it turns out, that post I linked to was targeted more towards people using 440BX boards in builds with tail-end CPUs (i.e. Tualerons and high-end Coppermines), not people who used them for what they were meant for.

canthearu wrote:

What the hell are you carrying on about.

First of all, working motherboard is ALWAYS better than defective motherboard.

Secondly, the Intel 440BX is a good chipset. It probably isn't suitable for much beyond a PII or PII at 500mhz-600mhz, but below that, it is a kickarse chipset. Don't worry about ATA66/100 or AGP 4x/8x, as at the speeds that the 440BX chipset is good for, the CPU becomes a much more significant bottleneck. The good things going for the 440BX are excellent overall PCI and ISA compatibility, strong software compatibility and excellent memory performance (for the CPUs it is good with).

Yeah, I should've realized that sooner than I did, I don't even remember if my old (P2B-VT) board had an Apollo Pro or an Apollo 133, but even if it did it wouldn't matter because of the CPU I'm using (A 433 MHz Mendocino Celeron salvaged from a dead Gateway tower a long time ago), the hard drives I've used (period-correct 1999 HDDs that were actually designed for ATA33), and the OS I enjoy the most on that system (Windows 95 OSR2.5, which is limited to ATA33 support anyway). Despite that comment and how I misunderstood it, I actually like the 440BX chipset more than the VIA chipsets from its time. I'll take a stable 440BX motherboard over an unreliable VIA Apollo (non-133) Pro motherboard anytime. I don't care what any diehard VIA motherboard user says.

canthearu wrote:

Thirdly, looking at the picture of the motherboard, if you run into problems due to lack of performance or compatibility of the onboard ATI video solution, you have an AGP slot. So if your onboard video doesn't work out, just drop in a Geforce 4 MX board, they are basically like cockroaches, everywhere and for really cheap prices. They are a good match for the lower end performance of the sub 500mhz PII. Edit: Use rivatuner to enable 8bit palette support on the Geforce 4 MX if that is important for your games.

As long as you didn't pay through the nose for the 440BX board or are trying to run a > 750mhz CPU on it, I wouldn't worry about it at all.

I know that. For the most part I don't like wasting integrated devices on such motherboards, but since I now have another machine with its integrated audio and video turned off in favor of dedicated cards, that OCD habit is wearing off. Despite the caveats that others have noticed, the ATI Rage Pro is doing fine for what I use the system for, but just in case I find an issue with it, I have an nVidia RIVA TNT2 Ultra video card as a backup solution (as for the Geforce4 MX, I actually have two MX440 cards to spare, so that's always an option if I decide to use Windows 98 instead of 95).

IIRC both of those motherboards were pretty cheap when I bought them and once again I'm not interested in pushing an overkill CPU into my system. My impulsive worries are irrelevant.

canthearu wrote:

Edit 2: But no, your definitely not the only person who has to go through a heap of hardware to find the best working stuff. A lot of people will post about the awesome hardware they assembled, but many don't spell out too much of the trials and tribulations that it took to get here. For me, this is half the fun.

That's a good way to look at my situation. This is the last time I'm going to let someone else's negative comments get the better of me, who cares if anyone hates what I have? It's my computer, not yours. So what if someone here doesn't appreciate ATI video cards, Intel chipsets, Creative sound cards, Windows 3.x/NT/95/ME/2000, Dell computers, membrane keyboards, ball mice, beige cases, floppy disks, or good old mechanical hard drives? That doesn't mean I should stop liking any of those things.