feipoa wrote:
I've tried this. It is expensive, but it works. I think you're speed is limited by the ACARD bridge adapter and the CF card. What CPU will you be using?
The only place I have a U320 controller is on a PCI-X slot in a dual Tualatin 1.4 GHz system, along with PCI-X gigabit ethernet. The PCI-X slots are on a different bus than the regular PCI slots.
Woow! You've tried even this feipoa!! Yes, they're ridiculously expensive nowdays. Too bad I didn't foresee this hobby in the past, I could have bought them when they were cheaper.
And, you're right. When I first posted this post I didn't realize yet that the PCI bus would have been a bottleneck. Then it came out somewhere else in one the replies to some other my post.
So, basically, there's no reason to use a U320 SCSI controller in a PCI Pentium 90, Pentium 60, and even DX4-120 (the DX4 is still on paper, don't have it).
But thanks.
My conclusion, based on the precious suggestions of you all, is that to push such systems to the maximum possible edge they offer, given the PCI bus bandwidth, and without conflicting too much with the video card and a possible 3DFX Vodoo 1 3D card, an 80 MB/sec UW SCSI2 controller is the way to go. Hopefully I'll find a caching version, with about 16 to 32 MB of memory.
luckybob wrote:those scsi bridge adapters are like $200+ right?
Scsi is stupid when you have PCI. Just get a sata2 card and a cheap chinese SSD. You are trying to hammer a nail with a jackhammer here.
Yes, they're unfathomably expensive! Shame on the tiny pieces of plastic board with a few tracks and a couple of chips on them, while a modern super-advanced motherboard which are basically computers cost less.
Yes, that kind of SCSI is stupid under PCI, when I first created this post I hadn't realized this yet (see my reply to Feipoa here above ↑).
Ahahahahah hammer a nail with a jackhammer here!!! (y) THAT'S EXACTLY THE FUN 🤣!
The goal is to push the Pentium(s) (60 and 90) and a theoretical (still to be purchased and assembled) Enhanced AM486 DX4-120 WB to the maximum possible limit, to make the fastest 486-computer (also literally, meaning with "486" printed on the CPU, so, 5x86s don't qualify) on the planet. About the I/O subsystem, where 486 computers range from 1 to 3 MB/sec (older IDE 486s) to 16.6 MB (EIDE PIO MODE4 486s) and to even 33 MB/sec of some Ultra DMA computers (more wouldn't help as the hard drives bottlenecked), with a UW SCSI2 fully filled up by a UDMA7 SanDisk Extreme PRO CF card (240 MB/sec real) via a SCSI to IDE bridge + IDE to CF adapter, we would have a 486 computer running its "hard drive" at 80MB/sec constantly all the time!! Can you imagine it? Can you imagine the apps and games that were made for those 3 to 16 MB/sec. performances? Can you imagine the benchmarks!!!!!
luckybob wrote:leave that slot empty in the bios. So for one sata drive, leave the primary master slot open. Put the cd drive on the secondary master. If you have an ide drive connected, it will still prefer the onboard ide, but leaving the pri/master slot open, it gives the sata card a place to hook the sata drive into.
I did something similar with a 286 running both sata and MFM hard drive controllers.
• Wow, nice trick man!!
• And how in the freaking Laniakea galaxy supercluster in which we live did you manage to run SATA on a 286?????? (and what are MFM??? A new candy? forgive my ignorance 🤣). I mean did you find ISA SATA controllers? Or did you manage to build a DIY PCI-to-ISA converter?
oohms wrote:I can't think of any real reason to have a super fast hard drive in a retro system.
That said, maybe you can get an adaptec ult […]
Show full quote
I can't think of any real reason to have a super fast hard drive in a retro system.
That said, maybe you can get an adaptec ultra160 card and a 15K scsi drive
https://storageadvisors.adaptec.com/en-us/sup … w/ez-scsi_3.11/
I'm not sure if this will work for your application, but if you already have the hardware it's worth a shot
Yes you're right oohms, please refer to my replies above for my overlooking the PCI bottleneck.
However, the very first requirement of a retro computer for me is to get rid of hard drives (which were my nightmares) and run them on modern smooth quiet fast solid state memories. That's the whole fun of it for me.
luckybob wrote:
For dos games...A CF card is more than fast enough. I personally use a 15K scsi drive in my IBM ps/2 setup. Its fsst, but noisy. If i had the option for a quick, quiet sata drive, I'd be all over it like a fat guy on a chocolate bar.
Bob, are you sure you have to dream about it? I mean, provided the controller is fast enough (and the SCSI to IDE bridge is at least a UW2 80 MB/sec type if the controller is SCSI, otherwise, go with UATA 133), if you get a SanDisk Extreme Pro CF Card UDMA7 via a IDE to CF adapter, you get performances that are waaaaay beyond any possible no-matter-at-what-speed-spinning cluttery SCSI hard drive! Or am I wrong?
yawetaG wrote:oohms wrote:I can't think of any real reason to have a super fast hard drive in a retro system.
Apart from using a retro system for tasks requiring a fast and reliable hard disk, such as audio and video editing, or running professional CAD solutions, there are none. And even then you'd be better off with a P3 or P4-based system...
Theoretically you're right yawetaG. However, as feipoa pointed out:
feipoa wrote:For many in the retro computer landscape, doing something just because you can is reason enough. There is very little going on here that is actually practical. Uncommon and high-end hardware combinations spark excitement, which is more than half the hobby.
Retro-computing hobbies are not exclusively based on rationality and logic (wow, I feel like a starship captain dealing with a vulcan officer during a dangerous predicament) 🤣!
To me, the whole retrocomputing thing was born because old "rotating" drives have always been my nightmare, both in terms of speed (and noise) and reliability.
I was dreaming of solid state kind of drives way before they were released. In the early 2000s, I was scavenging the web looking for hardware ramdrives, and I had found a bunch of drives, the 5.25" ones were my favorite, with 4 to 8 SIMM RAM modules on them, and a SATA port. But they were so freakingly expensive!!
So, now, with all these SSDs, DOMs, CF and SD cards and plenty of converters/adapters to IDE, and such cards being super super fast, it's a philosophical concept: a past-future blend! Running an old CPU-based system like a 486 or a Pentium on such > net 50 MB/sec smooth and quiet solid state drives feels like having a 12 cylinders bi-turbo compressor squeezed in the trunk of an old Suzuki Santana.
I mean, if a Lamborghini gets to 300 kph nobody is surprised. But seeing that little Suzuki quietly hitting 900 kph (in the analogy with the computer world, being the Lamborghini the fastest hard disk possible, and the hyperdrived little Suzuki a modern SSD or card via adapter) has no equals in feelings.
They said therefore to him: Who are you?
Jesus said to them: The beginning, who also speak unto you