I'd just get a cheap display that has VGA input to be honest. Easier, and gives you a dedicated display for the systems, as I imagine that you're using your current display on another computer at the moment?

RichB93 wrote:

I'd just get a cheap display that has VGA input to be honest. Easier, and gives you a dedicated display for the systems, as I imagine that you're using your current display on another computer at the moment?

That would be ideal, and I could even go for a CRT monitor, but space is super limited. There's no way I can fit an extra display anywhere. I have this Dell as my main Mac/Windows monitor, and I have a 14" Sony TV for 8-bit computers, and that's it. Any more and my wife is kicking me out of the house 😀

There are VGA => HDMI converters, but they need external power, since there has to be active conversion of video signal. But if you don't have problem to get there power from some other source, it's also an option.

https://www.alzashop.com/premiumcord-vga-audi … mi-d2147592.htm

DVI => HDMI with new GPU is certainly an option too, and I would say even better one (DVI => HDMI are passive converters, so it's really painless connection).

Srandista wrote:

There are VGA => HDMI cables, but they need external power, since there has to be active conversion of video signal. But if you don't have problem to get there power from some other source, it's also an option.

https://www.alzashop.com/premiumcord-hdmi-con … sb-d2920660.htm

DVI => HDMI with new GPU is certainly an option too, and I would say even better one (DVI => HDMI are passive converters, so it's really painless option).

I have a cheapie cable like that (not exactly like that), but it just plain doesn't work with my computer at boot time (or later for that matter). And it has trouble with my laptop. I think most of those cables are intended for 640x480 or 800x600 resolutions, and I believe the BIOS screen for example is 720x400 (at 70Hz). So a cable would be great, but I was hoping someone would have tested them and vouch for one.

If not, are all the DVI -> HDMI cables reliable? That might be the easiest solution in that case.

llopis wrote:

Are all the DVI -> HDMI cables reliable? That might be the easiest solution in that case.

I'm not using DVI => HDMI cable, but plain converter (from one of my old GPU), like this:

I'm using this with my Radeon 9500 to connect to my current FullHD monitor with standard HDMI => HDMI cable, never had any issues.

Had a Hammerhead, but it needs a strong clear signal for best results. As it doesn't scale, make sure the screen you are using it on supports the resolutions your software uses. It's available under different names/brands. I currently use a Gefen VGA -> HDMI scaler, which I can recommend. It scales well, no problems with various resolutions (DOS games, demoscene productions, etc) and does ADC for your analog audio which can be handy.

I'm alternating/testing a S3 Savage4 and a Matrox G200, both with flatpanel outputs - > HDMI. The image quality is even better than the Gefen that way, but hooking up your screen like that might have some impact:

- Both the S3 and the Matrox output 320x200 games as 640x480 with black bars @60Hz;
- Timing is different because of that, which influences games (the S3 stutters with Lost Vikings, the Matrox slows down when playing Lotus);
- Some troublesome games work well with the S3 (Jazz Jackrabbit for example, no out of range/tearing etc);
- It might be less laggy, as there is no conversion from analog to digital;
- Easy for capturing videos.

llopis wrote:

[...]

I have a cheapie cable like that (not exactly like that), but it just plain doesn't work with my computer at boot time (or later for that matter). And it has trouble with my laptop. I think most of those cables are intended for 640x480 or 800x600 resolutions, and I believe the BIOS screen for example is 720x400 (at 70Hz). So a cable would be great, but I was hoping someone would have tested them and vouch for one.

If not, are all the DVI -> HDMI cables reliable? That might be the easiest solution in that case.

Single Link DVI-D is basically the same as the video component of HDMI 1.0 - which is why a passive adapter does the job, as does a cable.

So long as you can supply single link DVI-D it will work.

The biggest risk is that some very early DVI outputs only do DVI-A, which is just VGA over some of the DVI pins.

With newer systems you hit problems once you want to go past the 1920x1200 max resolution of single link DVI (or HDMI 1.0). DVI supports more with dual link, which doubles the bus width. HDMI also supports (much) higher resolutions, but does so by increasing the signal clock. So higher res DVI and HDMI are not compatible and will display as max single link DVI.

Been doing some experimenting with the kit I have tonight...

This is a USB powered VGA-HDMI converter branded 'eSYNiC' - https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00PAGKZP4 - I paid £11

This works well, but the output resolution over the HDMI matches the input resolution (i.e. not HD/FullHD but actually 800x600 or 1024x768 etc.). This can cause problems if your HDMI device only expects normal HD resolutions. Because of this, this device didn't always get BIOS screens for example or other slightly odd resolutions.

Next are two Portta branded devices. First one a small plastic 720p and 1080p upscaler. I paid £22 for this and now it's only a fiver!! https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00ATNF346

This one works well too - the output can be 720p or 1080p (not the native input resolution). The button on the side switches the output between 720p and 1080p when pressed quickly. Press and hold for a couple seconds then release to auto adjust the image (if it's not centred for example). I did have this one once which didn't want to display an output (old Thinkpad in CRT high performance mode - whatever that is!)

This is my favourite one as I have a cheapo eBay HDMI capture card (about £30 seems to be a Timeleak HD72A or a YK762H Video Capture Card) which only really does 720p/1080i (well does a couple of other odd resolutions and 1080p/24 which isn't very useful!) so I can capture anything VGA that goes into this device.

The other Portta branded one is a metal chassis device that will take component or VGA and analogue audio and outputs 1080p (only) HDMI and also digital optical and coax audio. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008HZU2LM I paid £29 for this.

This device never failed to display any VGA input from the tests I was just doing on an old ThinkPad 360CS.

They were all similar quality output with the USB powered one probably being the best as my VGA lead seems to be introducing a bit of noise and I can't find another at the moment! They were all decent anyway. For all three DOS seems to end up at 640x480, even in games like Doom.

An example capture from the plastic 720p Portta one is here - https://youtu.be/DKrblR4U1FU (YouTube compression seems to impact the quality a bit)

Hope this helps! If anyone wants anything tested just shout. I recommend that one that's only £4.99 now 😀

Cheers,
Steve

Rawit wrote:

- Both the S3 and the Matrox output 320x200 games as 640x480 with black bars @60Hz;
- Timing is different because of that, which influences games (the S3 stutters with Lost Vikings, the Matrox slows down when playing Lotus);

This seems like a big deal to me. Why aren't these mentioned in the DOS vga compatiblity chart that everyone references? Is this just an LCD issue, and does it occur when using standard VGA?

I was never able to get the Portta to sync to a 720x400 DOS or BIOS source. I ended up going with a used Startech VGA2HDMIPRO scaler, which I found to be much more robust, offers a lot more options, and is better built. It's handled every signal I've thrown at it so far, including ones that my monitor refused to accept. I'm aware that there are better units like the OSSC and Extron out there, but this one was cheap, relatively compact, and also handles audio. They were also sold under the Atlona brand.

Ozzuneoj wrote:

Rawit wrote:

- Both the S3 and the Matrox output 320x200 games as 640x480 with black bars @60Hz;
- Timing is different because of that, which influences games (the S3 stutters with Lost Vikings, the Matrox slows down when playing Lotus);

This seems like a big deal to me. Why aren't these mentioned in the DOS vga compatiblity chart that everyone references? Is this just an LCD issue, and does it occur when using standard VGA?

That only occurs when using the DFP out (digital flat panel connector, passive adapter to DVI-D/HDMI). So the chart is correct, but it doesn't mention digital outputs. But it could be worse, some nVidia cards scale almost all common DOS resolutions to 1024x768 when using DVI.

A discovery I made yesterday about the Gefen: it mutes/drops audio sometimes. I was testing my setup with different recovery times and thought the drop is audio was because of that. Then I connected my soundcards straight to my amp and the problem was gone.

SteveC wrote:

Hope this helps! If anyone wants anything tested just shout. I recommend that one that's only £4.99 now 😀

That's awesome! That's exactly what I was hoping for. Thanks so much for all the testing and the report.

I decided to get the Portta cheapie one to check it out. If it works, it would be an ideal solution.

Hi llopis and everyone.

Just so you know, my Leadtek Winfast 280 Geforce 4Ti4200 128 MB as well as SPARKLE SPAG43DH GeForce 6600 256MB appears to work fine with my Dell U2715H when I use simple DVI=>HDMI cable or adapter. Both cards output digital signal with timings acceptable for the monitor over HDMI. DOS compatibility is very good and BIOS screen works as well, all with no adapters or upscalers needed!

I really recommend that Geforce 4 Ti card, it is one of the best cards you can have for DOS and Windows 98/ME.

XCVG, thank you for letting us know about Startech VGA2HDMIPRO. Is there anything else that can upscale BIOS and DOS screens to HDMI properly? Upscalers are still the only option when playing with older hardware.

supaplex wrote:

Hi llopis and everyone.

Just so you know, my Leadtek Winfast 280 Geforce 4Ti4200 128 MB as well as SPARKLE SPAG43DH GeForce 6600 256MB appears to work fine with my Dell U2715H when I use simple DVI=>HDMI cable or adapter. Both cards output digital signal with timings acceptable for the monitor over HDMI. DOS compatibility is very good and BIOS screen works as well, all with no adapters or upscalers needed!

I really recommend that Geforce 4 Ti card, it is one of the best cards you can have for DOS and Windows 98/ME.

Thanks! That's great to know. Unfortunately my motherboard doesn't have an AGP slot, just ISA and PCI. I think that rules out those cards for me 🙁

I have tried to search to these Portta VGA to audio metal ones, but it seems that its USA only thing and on eBay shipping prices to Europe are insane as for other US only stuff.. I wonder how much really cost shipping such item to Europe?

I finally got around to trying the Portta VGA -> HDMI converter and it was a disappointment. It didn't handle the BIOS screen at all, and once Windows 98 switches to 800x600 it actually displays an image, but it's constantly wavering and shifting (just a few pixels everywhere).
I guess I'm back looking for better/more expensive solutions.

llopis wrote:

I finally got around to trying the Portta VGA -> HDMI converter and it was a disappointment.

Above are at least 2 model, which one you have tried?

ruthan wrote:

Above are at least 2 model, which one you have tried?

The first one listed, and the only one I could find on Amazon Spain for cheap:
https://www.amazon.es/gp/product/B00ATNF346/r … e?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I would be willing to live withou the BIOS screen, but the shimmering on regular resolutions makes it unusable. Again, this is just testing it on my monitor Dell U2715H. Maybe it's better on other monitors.

I had mine plugged into an HDMI capture card or my LG TV. It seemed to depend on the PC I used as the source - most of the time I was on an old 486 ThinkPad and maybe it's the video modes it uses are different? I'll have another play a bit later if I get a minute.

I assume you did try pressing the button so it resynced the VGA signal?