VOGONS


First post, by aries-mu

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I split this sub-topic creating a specific thread:

The laptop has USB 2 and USB 3 ports. Guess what? The SD/SDHC/SDXC/whatever cards reader is interfaced... with the USB 2 controller!!!!
See the little daughterboard, it's the one with the USB 2 ports, while the USB 3 port is on the opposite side of the motherboard:
samsung-ativ-book-4-NP470R5E-dual-usb-sd-board.jpg
https://www.laptopking.com/boards/samsung-ati … sb-sd-board.jpg

Which means, no matter what modern ultra-fast SD card I'll put in (even hundreds MB/sec cards), they will all be stuck at ~60MB/sec because of the USB2 bottleneck.

QUESTIONS:

1) In your opinion, isn't this another idiotic choice?

2) Is there anything I can do to "re-route" the SD-CARD reader via soldering wires to the USB 3 controller and somehow "cut" those from the USB 2 ? (I know this is crazy).

Thanks SO MUCH guys!!!

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Reply 1 of 16, by Koltoroc

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1) if it were a modern notebook, you could argue that, but back when this notebook was designed there were virtually no SD cards anywhere as fast as they are today, so USB 2.0 was sufficient for the task. Even today I would not consider USB 3.0 SD card readers essential and more as a nice to have.

2) Yes and no. You theoretically could rewire it but it would be useless. The card reader will still be a USB 2.0 device. It would function on a USB 3.0 port but it would get no benefit out of it. You would have to replace the whole card reader with a 3.0 model.

Reply 2 of 16, by aries-mu

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Koltoroc wrote:

1) if it were a modern notebook, you could argue that, but back when this notebook was designed there were virtually no SD cards anywhere as fast as they are today, so USB 2.0 was sufficient for the task. Even today I would not consider USB 3.0 SD card readers essential and more as a nice to have.

2) Yes and no. You theoretically could rewire it but it would be useless. The card reader will still be a USB 2.0 device. It would function on a USB 3.0 port but it would get no benefit out of it. You would have to replace the whole card reader with a 3.0 model.

You have a point!

As for 2, wow, sounds a major project... intriguing.... like if I buy a USB 3 card reader, pull it out of its enclosure, and somehow try to replace it on the default daughterboard of the laptop.... Only... I wouldn't know how/where to connect it to get it via the USB 3 controller on the other side of the mobo

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Reply 4 of 16, by aries-mu

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Koltoroc wrote:

more like a pointless project. It is what you would have to do, but I consider it a waste of time to even attempt it. USB 2.0 works and is generally fast enough for an sd card reader.

Because I omitted to say one thing: the computer has only 1 space for internal drive.
So I have everything on the SSD (data and software). As the data keeps growing, I keep having to replace the SSD with a larger one (now I'm at 500 GB and growing).

If I could use a high quality reliable and super fast SD Card (like a SanDisk Pro Super Hyper Maxi Mega Galactic Bombastic Fantastic Extreme Pro whatever, that kind of stuff) as secondary internal "SSD" (kind of) for the DATA (which would also make the data portable!!! Which I'd totally love), it would be fantastic.
The problem is: not at 60 MB/sec!!!

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Reply 5 of 16, by torindkflt

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If you absolutely want USB 3.0 speed storage on that laptop, they make USB 3.0 flash drives that stick out only a quarter of an inch, and USB 3.0 MicroSD card readers not much bigger than that. It would be a lot easier and quicker than ripping apart a laptop and potentially damaging something just to rewire the internal card reader, especially when the internal reader doesn't even support USB 3.0.

Reply 6 of 16, by aries-mu

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torindkflt wrote:

If you absolutely want USB 3.0 speed storage on that laptop, they make USB 3.0 flash drives that stick out only a quarter of an inch, and USB 3.0 MicroSD card readers not much bigger than that. It would be a lot easier and quicker than ripping apart a laptop and potentially damaging something just to rewire the internal card reader, especially when the internal reader doesn't even support USB 3.0.

You got another point... (and I wouldn't even know what to connect to what). If only it had more than 1 USB3 port... I use it a lot for external backupping, and at periods I have to carry the laptop around a lot... Anyway thanks for the hints!

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Reply 7 of 16, by derSammler

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Which means, no matter what modern ultra-fast SD card I'll put in (even hundreds MB/sec cards), they will all be stuck at ~60MB/sec because of the USB2 bottleneck.

SD cards are slow by design. I think you are confusing "bus speed" here, which is 624 mb/s with UHS-III cards at most. This is not the transfer rate, however. No UHS-III card will give you 624 mb/s, it's only the speed of the interface. Like with UDMA-133 IDE hard disks. They can send data that fast to the interface, but they are not able to transfer data from the media at that speed.

Reply 8 of 16, by Jo22

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I wouldn't underestimate the value of an USB 3.x card reader..
Most USB 2.0 readers never reach half the USB 2.0 performance, even.

Because of that, I've got bought my first USB 3.0 card reader more than 5 years ago.
It even outperforms various of my old USB 2.0 readers when I use old CF cards.

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Reply 10 of 16, by aries-mu

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derSammler wrote:

Which means, no matter what modern ultra-fast SD card I'll put in (even hundreds MB/sec cards), they will all be stuck at ~60MB/sec because of the USB2 bottleneck.

SD cards are slow by design. I think you are confusing "bus speed" here, which is 624 mb/s with UHS-III cards at most. This is not the transfer rate, however. No UHS-III card will give you 624 mb/s, it's only the speed of the interface. Like with UDMA-133 IDE hard disks. They can send data that fast to the interface, but they are not able to transfer data from the media at that speed.

But then what about all the benchmarks that they run in the SD cards reviews? showing MB/sec in various situations and applications?

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Reply 11 of 16, by cyclone3d

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You could always get a card reader / USB 3.0 hub such as this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4A59-All-in-1-3-Port … er/183378722718

Or a 2.5" enclosure with USB 3.0 hub built in such as one of these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hard-Drive-Enclosure … rd/113170485880
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ORICO-USB-3-0-2-5-HD … LU/163028250398

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Reply 12 of 16, by cyclone3d

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aries-mu wrote:
derSammler wrote:

Which means, no matter what modern ultra-fast SD card I'll put in (even hundreds MB/sec cards), they will all be stuck at ~60MB/sec because of the USB2 bottleneck.

SD cards are slow by design. I think you are confusing "bus speed" here, which is 624 mb/s with UHS-III cards at most. This is not the transfer rate, however. No UHS-III card will give you 624 mb/s, it's only the speed of the interface. Like with UDMA-133 IDE hard disks. They can send data that fast to the interface, but they are not able to transfer data from the media at that speed.

But then what about all the benchmarks that they run in the SD cards reviews? showing MB/sec in various situations and applications?

It really depends on the SD card reader AND the SD card.

The really fast SD cards are actually capable of the MB/s they state. They aren't going to last as long as say an SSD and really should not be used as a replacement for an SSD or HDD.

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Reply 13 of 16, by aries-mu

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cyclone3d wrote:
You could always get a card reader / USB 3.0 hub such as this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/4A59-All-in-1-3-Port … er/183378722718 […]
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You could always get a card reader / USB 3.0 hub such as this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4A59-All-in-1-3-Port … er/183378722718

Or a 2.5" enclosure with USB 3.0 hub built in such as one of these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hard-Drive-Enclosure … rd/113170485880
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ORICO-USB-3-0-2-5-HD … LU/163028250398

Oh yes I have the hub. Wow I didn't know about the enclosures with built in hub, thanks!!!!

The issue with that is the periods when I have to carry the laptop around every day... I don't want to leave a flash memory in the only usb 3 port while transporting, nor I'd be happy to plug and unplug every day, more times... it's already old. One of the USB 2 ports is already loose...
If only the manufacturer would have been a little foreseeing and interfaced the reader with the USB3...

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Jesus said to them: The beginning, who also speak unto you

Reply 14 of 16, by aries-mu

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cyclone3d wrote:

The really fast SD cards are actually capable of the MB/s they state. They aren't going to last as long as say an SSD and really should not be used as a replacement for an SSD or HDD.

Oh wow! That's what I wanted to hear!! I think reliability is the main issue here. Okay, forget using an SD card as DATA drive.

As soon as I get relieved of having a crappy built-in reader, oh gosh, I can't help but find another reason to be sad about that 🤣
If it was a USB 3 reader, I could have plugged one of those super fast SD cards just to speed up Windows and/or as virtual memory drive, to let the SSD age more slowly (good luck with moving the modern versions of Firefox and Chrome's cache memories in a RamDisk which I have... and good luck convincing Netflix to move its streaming cache in the ram disk!)

Anyway, the best option is to get a better job and buy an MSI Stealth Thin with 2 internal drives 😉 or does it support 2 drives??? 😲

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Jesus said to them: The beginning, who also speak unto you

Reply 15 of 16, by torindkflt

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Does the laptop have an optical drive? If so, do you USE the optical drive?

If not, they make caddies that allow you to install a second hard drive or SSD in place of the optical drive. Only potential issue might be finding one with a bezel that properly fits the case of your laptop, OR allows you to attach the bezel from the optical drive so it fits seamlessly.

Reply 16 of 16, by aries-mu

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torindkflt wrote:

Does the laptop have an optical drive? If so, do you USE the optical drive?

If not, they make caddies that allow you to install a second hard drive or SSD in place of the optical drive. Only potential issue might be finding one with a bezel that properly fits the case of your laptop, OR allows you to attach the bezel from the optical drive so it fits seamlessly.

Thanks so much my friends! I see how you're trying to find a solution!
I wish it did. No internal optical drive 🤣
And the laptop is so thin that a within a few months from the release date lots of RMA were sent because it overheats and they got burned (Radeon HD 8750M in a very thin case)

They said therefore to him: Who are you?
Jesus said to them: The beginning, who also speak unto you