VOGONS


First post, by ultra_code

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Hello VOGONS members!

I was thinking of upgrading the 800MHz Pentium III in my Slot 1 machine with a Asus P3B-F motherboard (with a FSB of 100MHz) to a 1GHz Slot 1 PIII (naturally), but because that CPU is exceptionally rare and expensive, I turned my attention to "slockets". Now, I know PhilsComputerLab did a video on this with the 1-1.1GHz Celerons, but, I was curious: Could I do this with the 1-1.1GHz PIIIs (specifically, spec #s SL5QV and SL5QW)? They too have 100MHz FSB support, and, while my Asus motherboard doesn't explicitly mention support for those PIIIs, it does mention support for those same Celerons Phil mentioned in his video.

Has anyone tried to do this before, and if so, does it work? Is it possible? Just want to make sure before I spend some money, that's all.

Thanks!

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Reply 1 of 35, by Tiido

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You'll most probably have to mod the CPU or the slocket. A pin will have to be removed and some bridged IIRC. I did that to one of my slockets in past and a PIII-S in it has worked on all mobos I have tried even if there's no explicit BIOS support for the CPU.

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Reply 3 of 35, by gex85

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SL5QV and SL5QW should both work well. They are both Coppermine CPUs, not Tualatin (PIII-S), so no modding is needed at all.
The P3B-F supports up to 150 MHz FSB (see page 18 in the manual). However since the BX chipset is rated at 100 MHz max FSB by Intel, Asus won't officially support 133 MHz CPUs. Which obviously doesn't mean that they won't work - they usually do. Depends a bit on your graphics card as well, since the AGP bus will be overclocked if you run FSBs >100 MHz, but most cards should handle the higher frequencies without issues.

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Reply 4 of 35, by ultra_code

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gex85 wrote:

SL5QV and SL5QW should both work well. They are both Coppermine CPUs, not Tualatin (PIII-S), so no modding is needed at all.
The P3B-F supports up to 150 MHz FSB (see page 18 in the manual). However since the BX chipset is rated at 100 MHz max FSB by Intel, Asus won't officially support 133 MHz CPUs. Which obviously doesn't mean that they won't work - they usually do. Depends a bit on your graphics card as well, since the AGP bus will be overclocked if you run FSBs >100 MHz, but most cards should handle the higher frequencies without issues.

Great! Yeah, I plan to keep things in spec. Want this upgrade to be as simple as possible.

The Serpent Rider wrote:

Why would you need 100mhz FSB CPU on P3B-F?

To keep in spec.

Tiido wrote:

You'll most probably have to mod the CPU or the slocket. A pin will have to be removed and some bridged IIRC. I did that to one of my slockets in past and a PIII-S in it has worked on all mobos I have tried even if there's no explicit BIOS support for the CPU.

I'm not that daring. 😀

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Reply 5 of 35, by SnipeUout

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I have your mobo with the 1 Ghz CPU.

I have two 1 Ghz NIB but they are SL4KL coded CPU. Only difference is the box. I was trying to sell them in a par for a Tandy duel CPU setup.

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Reply 6 of 35, by ultra_code

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SnipeUout wrote:

I have your mobo with the 1 Ghz CPU.

I have two 1 Ghz NIB but they are SL4KL coded CPU. Only difference is the box. I was trying to sell them in a par for a Tandy duel CPU setup.

That's good. Backs up gex85's statement. 😀

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Reply 7 of 35, by kaputnik

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A 1.1GHz Coppermine should work without any mods at all. You just need a Coppermine compatible slotket, my personal favourite is the MSI MS-6905 Master. There might be some cosmetic errors at POST due to the BIOS not recognizing the CPU though, which can be fixed by patching in the correct microcode into the BIOS if it bothers you.

If you're ok with doing a simple pin mod on the slotket (some desoldering/soldering needed), and the mainboard VRM can deliver 1.5V, you could go for a 1.4 GHz Tualeron, which afaik would be the fastest possible CPU if you want to keep the 440BX chipset within spec.

A Powerleap iPT/3 slotket is another option if you want to run a Tualeron, which requires no modding and has an onboard VRM, but one of those will cost you an arm and a leg these days.

Reply 8 of 35, by ultra_code

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Well, I just bought a nice looking Asus slocket (to match the Asus motherboard, no less; I expect a miracle to happen 😀 ) and the only PIII 1.1GHz 100MHz-FSB socket 370 CPU I could find on ebay w/ a crappy motherboard, so wish me the best of luck.

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Reply 9 of 35, by feipoa

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kaputnik wrote:

A 1.1GHz Coppermine should work without any mods at all. You just need a Coppermine compatible slotket, my personal favourite is the MSI MS-6905 Master. There might be some cosmetic errors at POST due to the BIOS not recognizing the CPU though, which can be fixed by patching in the correct microcode into the BIOS if it bothers you.

If you're ok with doing a simple pin mod on the slotket (some desoldering/soldering needed), and the mainboard VRM can deliver 1.5V, you could go for a 1.4 GHz Tualeron, which afaik would be the fastest possible CPU if you want to keep the 440BX chipset within spec.

A Powerleap iPT/3 slotket is another option if you want to run a Tualeron, which requires no modding and has an onboard VRM, but one of those will cost you an arm and a leg these days.

I have a dual 440BX board which runs slot 1 PIII 850 MHz chips. These are 1.65 V CPUs. The motherboard must be setting voltage automatically because there is no voltage jumper setting. I own two MS-6905 v2.x slockets, which I understand does some magic with changing the signalling voltage. I have two pin-modded Tualatin PIII-S 1.4 GHz chips which I believe run ta 1.45 V. Can I use the pin-modded Tualatin chips in the MS-6905 on the 440BX board or is there still a core voltage issue?

the_ultra_code wrote:

Well, I just bought a nice looking Asus slocket (to match the Asus motherboard, no less; I expect a miracle to happen 😀 ) and the only PIII 1.1GHz 100MHz-FSB socket 370 CPU I could find on ebay w/ a crappy motherboard, so wish me the best of luck.

You bought that 'eh? I think he wanted around $45 for the set. He wouldn't reply to any of my messages about selling the CPU separately. Would he reply to you? I don't buy from people who cannot be bothered answering questions. I have two of these 1100 MHz PIII's, but both appear to have died after testing them in a dead motherboard. Actually, I lost two other CPUs that way and have had to rebuy parts of my CPU collection.

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Reply 10 of 35, by ultra_code

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feipoa wrote:
the_ultra_code wrote:

Well, I just bought a nice looking Asus slocket (to match the Asus motherboard, no less; I expect a miracle to happen 😀 ) and the only PIII 1.1GHz 100MHz-FSB socket 370 CPU I could find on ebay w/ a crappy motherboard, so wish me the best of luck.

You bought that 'eh? I think he wanted around $45 for the set. He wouldn't reply to any of my messages about selling the CPU separately. Would he reply to you? I don't buy from people who cannot be bothered answering questions. I have two of these 1100 MHz PIII's, but both appear to have died after testing them in a dead motherboard. Actually, I lost two other CPUs that way and have had to rebuy parts of my CPU collection.

Yep, sure did. Here's the original listing. I paid in total $54.90 for the combo, and just bought a GeForce 5200 256MB PCI GPU to test the motherboard, since my only other PCI GPU is being used in a P1 system. I don't believe I asked him any questions, but, usually, even if I ask a seller something and they don't respond, if I believe that I can easily find out after I buy said item and won't be too concerned regarding the answer (which is most of the time), I'll buy the item regardless. While I find is incredibly stupid for sellers not to take like 5 minutes of their time to answer a simple question soon after the question has been asked, I'm not one to judge [much]. One time, I bought a cheap 700 series GPU, never received anything within a month, tried talking to the seller, got no response, took it up with ebay, was sided with, and finally, after all of that, the seller told me that he was away at the time and had left matters in the hands of his girlfriend. She apparently didn't do anything, and that was why I didn't receive the GPU. I just said to him to give me a refund, and thankfully the situation ended without much trouble, but I had to wonder if that whole story was a lie or not. Regardless, the point I'm trying to make is that it could be that the seller can't respond, and not that they don't want to. That's what I like to assume, at least. 😀

As for your dismal luck with your CPUs, I can only offer my condolences. I had a crappy socket 775 Linux Mint system with a supper sh*tty ECS motherboard in it that I was using for a while, and one day I decided to try to upgrade the CPU from a Core 2 Duo to a Core 2 Quad. I don't know if the motherboard couldn't handle it, didn't officially support it via BIOS, and/or the CPU itself was bad at the time, but after installing it, I noticed the BIOS started acting weird and glitchy, I think Linux Mint too started acting a little weird as well, and after some time, the video card suddenly stopped displaying a video signal. After some troubleshooting, it turned out that the PCIe slot was fried, while the card itself was just fine (thankfully). At that point, I just put the original CPU back in, and used it until I was able to recycle/trash the system. Upon later testing, I found out that that Core 2 Quad I had tried upgrading to would make other, good-working boards not POST, so i had to sell it on ebay for parts.

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Reply 11 of 35, by kaputnik

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feipoa wrote:

I have a dual 440BX board which runs slot 1 PIII 850 MHz chips. These are 1.65 V CPUs. The motherboard must be setting voltage automatically because there is no voltage jumper setting. I own two MS-6905 v2.x slockets, which I understand does some magic with changing the signalling voltage. I have two pin-modded Tualatin PIII-S 1.4 GHz chips which I believe run ta 1.45 V. Can I use the pin-modded Tualatin chips in the MS-6905 on the 440BX board or is there still a core voltage issue?

Well, the CPU requests a voltage from the VRM by having a combination of its VID pins powered, which ones depends of what voltage the specific CPU wants. This pulls the corresponding inputs on the mainboard VRM up. If the VRM understands the combination, it will supply the requested voltage, otherwise it will do nothing at all, and the CPU simply won't get any power. Couldn't find a complete datasheet for the VRM 8.4 guidelines, but have a look at page 9 here, and it will probably clear up. It's the 8.3 ones, but they're more or less identical to the 8.4 ones in this respect 😀

The MS-6905 circumvents that mechanism by bypassing the CPU VID pins and generating the signal via jumpers, if it's not jumpered for auto voltage selection of course, which passes the selection on to the CPU.

So, in short, you can use your pin modded Tualatins with the MS-6905, as long as the mainboard VRM can supply the requested voltage. It doesn't matter if you set the voltage clamp jumpers to auto, or do the selection manually. The problem is that many 440BX boards only complies to the VRM 8.1 guidelines, and can't deliver lower voltages than 1.8V. It's easy to test your board; just plug the CPU in, set the voltage to something lower than 1.8V, and try booting. If the VRM can't supply the requested voltage, the CPU won't get any power, and nothing happens.

Oh, and a little tip, ran into a few slockets where the connector tabs inside the socket had oxidized/gotten dirty through the years. Just insert the CPU and open/close the socket 20-30 times or so the first time you use it, to rub off oxides/dirt, and make sure everything makes contact 😀

Reply 12 of 35, by PARKE

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kaputnik wrote:

Well, the CPU requests a voltage from the VRM by having a combination of its VID pins powered, which ones depends of what voltage the specific CPU wants. This pulls the corresponding inputs on the mainboard VRM up. If the VRM understands the combination, it will supply the requested voltage, otherwise it will do nothing at all, and the CPU simply won't get any power. Couldn't find a complete datasheet for the VRM 8.4 guidelines, 8><CUT

In case it is needed.

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Reply 13 of 35, by feipoa

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Considering that my motherboard officially supports Coppermine Slot 1 CPUs at 1.65 V, it is likely that the VRM conforms to VRM 8.2. If I install the PIII-S Tualatin and leave the MSI's VID set to auto and the MB's screen stays blank, then could I set the MSI to 1.5, 1.55, 1.60, and 1.65 to see if any of these values are agreeable to my MB's VRM? I understand that this is over-voltaging the CPU.

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Reply 14 of 35, by kaputnik

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feipoa wrote:

Considering that my motherboard officially supports Coppermine Slot 1 CPUs at 1.65 V, it is likely that the VRM conforms to VRM 8.2. If I install the PIII-S Tualatin and leave the MSI's VID set to auto and the MB's screen stays blank, then could I set the MSI to 1.5, 1.55, 1.60, and 1.65 to see if any of these values are agreeable to my MB's VRM? I understand that this is over-voltaging the CPU.

Yep, I agree. The VRM definitely can do the voltages any officially supported CPUs asks for, they would never officially support anything that would run out of voltage spec.

Never seen a board that only can do parts of the spectrum, it's either down to 1.8 or 1.3 volts. I'd say your board almost certainly can do 1.45 volts too. Try forcing that instead if it for some reason won't work in auto mode 😀

If you have a Coppermine CPU, you could use that if you still want to test the settings between 1.5 and 1.65 volts. It should boot at lower voltages than spec, at least if you underclock it. Running a Tualatin 1.13 GHz / 133 MHz FSB @ 850 MHz / 100 MHz FSB in my 1999 retro lan rig on 1.3 volts, which is a 0.15V undervoltage. A Coppermine CPU should be able to do the same.

Reply 15 of 35, by feipoa

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Well, being a Dell motherboard, who knows what fancy business is going on with the VRM. It will a few weeks or months before I can get to testing this. Thanks for the advice!

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Reply 16 of 35, by kaputnik

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feipoa wrote:

Well, being a Dell motherboard, who knows what fancy business is going on with the VRM. It will a few weeks or months before I can get to testing this. Thanks for the advice!

Can't imagine that even Dell uses custom stuff, should be some off the shelf VRM. While you're waiting, you could always google for its datasheet, should contain some useful info 😀

Reply 17 of 35, by ultra_code

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An update: I finally got the Asus slocket today, so I just threw the PIII 1.1GHz CPU into it, attached the StarTech CPU cooler I have for it, made sure the jumpers on the slocket were at defaults, stuck it into my PC, made sure I enabled JumperFree mode on the motherboard (figured that's what it would have to be), and... no post. None.

I went ahead to confirm that the CPU was working on that same Gateway board mentioned above, just to make sure, and it indeed was. So, at this point, should I try to manually set the dip switches on my Asus P3B-F motherboard for the CPU (there are no mentioned ways though to manually set the multiplier to 11x via the dip switches), or is the slocket confirmed DOA?

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Reply 18 of 35, by kaputnik

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the_ultra_code wrote:

An update: I finally got the Asus slocket today, so I just threw the PIII 1.1GHz CPU into it, attached the StarTech CPU cooler I have for it, made sure the jumpers on the slocket were at defaults, stuck it into my PC, made sure I enabled JumperFree mode on the motherboard (figured that's what it would have to be), and... no post. None.

I went ahead to confirm that the CPU was working on that same Gateway board mentioned above, just to make sure, and it indeed was. So, at this point, should I try to manually set the dip switches on my Asus P3B-F motherboard for the CPU (there are no mentioned ways though to manually set the multiplier to 11x via the dip switches), or is the slocket confirmed DOA?

If that Gateway board is a S370 one, and you tested the CPU without the slotket, begin with what I suggested earlier in the thread; "... ran into a few slockets where the connector tabs inside the socket had oxidized/gotten dirty through the years. Just insert the CPU and open/close the socket 20-30 times or so the first time you use it, to rub off oxides/dirt, and make sure everything makes contact". Don't forget to loosen the heatsink retention clamp before 😀

I'd try forcing 1.75V and 100MHz FSB. If there are setting jumpers on the mainboard, use those, and leave the ones on the slotket in auto mode. If not, use the ones on the slotket.

The multiplier setting will do nothing, the CPU just ignores it. All Slot1/S370 CPUs but the earliest PIIs are multiplier locked.

Last edited by kaputnik on 2018-10-07, 03:14. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 19 of 35, by feipoa

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That's unfortunate. Perhaps try the 1000/100 and continue going lower until you find a speed that works? My Dell Precision Workstation 410 maxed out at 850 MHz slot 1's. 1000's booted, but were not reliable. This is perhaps something I should revisit in the future. Maybe the issue was dried out heatsink compound? If you feel like selling the 1100/100, let me know. I killed both of mine and need to rebuild that part of my collection.

Did you buy the 1U startech coolers that are pure copper? I also bought a pair of those for my dual MSI slocket experiment with modded Tualatin chips. I ordered two units of these Startech coolers and one of them rubs on the housing. I suspect the quality control was rather lax.

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