VOGONS


First post, by PLB-389

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Hi All,
Not sure if this is the right subforum so apologies in advance if I've posted incorrectly. I'm building my old 486 system which has been in storage for years. The goal is to max out every option possible on it and turn it into the mean machine I wanted it to be in my youth. I used to be able to run Need for Speed SE at about 4 frames per second in DOS, so my goal is to see if I can get it to run at a playable frame rate.

The machine is a Dell OptiPlex 4100/L. It's got a lot of goodies already but here's the gist of it:

CPU: Intel DX4-100 CPU
Video: Tseng Labs ET4000/W32i onboard (integrated with mobo) with 1mb ram
Expansion: Mobo seems to have EISA (or is it VLBus?) but only has one slot. The installed riser is ISA only.
Cache: There's a small slot-type connector for an external cache card. The cache card isn't installed and I'm actively looking for one.
Memory: I've maxed out the memory - 64mb FPRAM installed, up from 16.
Hard drive: 341mb IDE drive installed with Win95 taking up a significant portion of that. 2.1gb drive on the way.
Sound: Soundblaster 16
External media: Installed a 32x CD-ROM. Also just bought a Teac FD-505 off ebay for a ridiculous amount of money only for it to be DOA. Trying to fix it.

Questions:
Does anyone know of a better ISA video card than the integrated ET4000 that I can get? I've been doing my research but without going to a VLBus card (which would mean finding a new riser) the ET4000 looks to be about as good as it gets.
Does anyone know anything about a cache card to suit the optiplex 4xx/L and 4xx/LV machines? Part number? Possible sizes? Any leads at all?
Does anyone have any other suggestions for improvements to make to the machine?

Reply 1 of 17, by Disruptor

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I guess your onboard graphics ET4000/W32i is direcly connected to the 486 bus.
So the performance is the same as on a VL bus.
Therefore I do not recommend to use a graphics card on ISA bus.
However, the amount of graphics ram is a bit low.

Reply 2 of 17, by BinaryDemon

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I think the cache ram is the most important performance upgrade. From reading old reviews in PC Mag it seems that ET4000 is already tied to VLB and offers pretty good DOS performance.

Check out DOSBox Distro:

https://sites.google.com/site/dosboxdistro/ [*]

a lightweight Linux distro (tinycore) which boots off a usb flash drive and goes straight to DOSBox.

Make your dos retrogaming experience portable!

Reply 3 of 17, by cyclone3d

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Cache and possibly upgrade to a 5x86-133 CPU.

Can you post pics of the cache slot? It may just be a standard COAST module.

I am not finding anything specific about this model except for an ad in Infoworld.

Yamaha modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG repository
YMF7x4 Guide
Aopen AW744L II SB-LINK

Reply 4 of 17, by DeafPK

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If memory serves me well, the cache slot in mention is proprietary and looks like a very short brown MCA/VLB style connector.

"an occasional fart in their general direction would provide more than enough cooling" —PCBONEZ

Reply 5 of 17, by PLB-389

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Thanks for the advice. I think I managed to find the cache card, it's on its way now:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DELL-39077-9427-O … 872.m2749.l2648

Here's the connector where it slots in:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/4WnUDyEgwJhE2fZT9

There's also two 34 pin headers for a video ram upgrade. Again, no information on what I could connect to them, so I'm still trying to find out more information on that:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/3xJSQD5gqsGGoVSSA

The OKI chips in between the headers appear to be the onboard VRAM - 4x 256kb chips in total. The ones next to them are 128kb chips which I assume are related but have no idea what they are actually for.

Looks like the cache card occupies the single VLB slot so it's either a cache card or a VLB riser on this system, unless anyone has more information on it?

Reply 6 of 17, by stamasd

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Actually both the OKI M514256 and the V53C104HK45 are 256kx4bit DRAM. Each pair of these should provide 256kbyte RAM, so 8 of them=2MB.
http://pdf.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheet/oki/MSM514256C.pdf
https://www.datasheets360.com/pdf/6806924364049024400

I/O, I/O,
It's off to disk I go,
With a bit and a byte
And a read and a write,
I/O, I/O

Reply 7 of 17, by derSammler

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Disruptor wrote:

However, the amount of graphics ram is a bit low.

Why? There's no benefit in having more than 1 MB of video memory on a 486. It simply can't handle the additional resolutions you could do with 2 MB. With 1 MB, you can run Windows in Hi-Color mode at 800x600 or in 8-bit color mode at 1024x768.

Reply 8 of 17, by Logistics

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derSammler wrote:
Disruptor wrote:

However, the amount of graphics ram is a bit low.

Why? There's no benefit in having more than 1 MB of video memory on a 486. It simply can't handle the additional resolutions you could do with 2 MB. With 1 MB, you can run Windows in Hi-Color mode at 800x600 or in 8-bit color mode at 1024x768.

Yeah, I was gonna say something. Back around '94 I built a system with stuff around the PC shop I was working at, and I ended up with a Diamond Speedster 24X, which is technically, a step above the ET4000, with its Western Digital processor. But at the time, it's full, 1MB of memory was not so common,and yes I could run 24-bit color in 800x600. However, I wonder if his onboard setup is technically, faster in this case due to not technically being an ISA card.

Reply 9 of 17, by PLB-389

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stamasd wrote:

Actually both the OKI M514256 and the V53C104HK45 are 256kx4bit DRAM. Each pair of these should provide 256kbyte RAM, so 8 of them=2MB.

Thanks for that. They must serve different purposes because the BIOS only reports 1mb onboard video memory. I tried to find an equivalent 512kb DIP20 package to the OKI chips but I don't think one exists, and I don't know if it would even be a plug and play sort of upgrade anyway - there's probably a good reason there are memory upgrade headers there.

derSammler wrote:

There's no benefit in having more than 1 MB of video memory on a 486. It simply can't handle the additional resolutions you could do with 2 MB.

Thanks for this advice, it's good to know and makes me less concerned about trying to find a memory upgrade module for this system. I'll still spend a little bit of effort trying to do it though, for no other reason than because I can 😀

Reply 10 of 17, by badmojo

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Cool sounding system!

Yes 1mb video memory is heaps and the ET4000 is a great chipset. 64MB RAM is too much in IMHO, might even cause trouble on a 486. I'd stick with 16MB.

Life? Don't talk to me about life.

Reply 11 of 17, by chinny22

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Also think 64MB is a bit too much, Depending on your setup will depend on how much RAM is cashable which is what your after.
That's if your after raw performance, I also have 64MB in my 486 as I get my kicks from having the thing maxed out more then raw performance and the difference is only a few extra fps' at best.

CD-ROM: 32x CD-ROM is a bit fast, It may casue bottleneck as it'll keep having to wait to spin up and down unless its constantly been read from. Although you can use slow down utilities to fix that.
FDD: If your after pure performance, something like a gotek floppy emulator will be quicker as it will never have problems reading from a physical disk.
HDD: CF or SD card is the same story as above but for the HDD
CPU: POD or 586 133Mhz

Now with all that said your PC is pretty close as much as a 486 can go. any game that struggles on a DX4 isn't going to go much better unless you upgrade to a Pentium.
Not saying it isn't worth it, just keeping your expectations realistic, I was bit disappointed when I upgraded from a Dx2 66, VLB to a PCI 586 133 and Duke3d still wasn't smooth because my expectations were so unrealistic.

Reply 12 of 17, by dionb

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derSammler wrote:

Why? There's no benefit in having more than 1 MB of video memory on a 486. It simply can't handle the additional resolutions you could do with 2 MB. With 1 MB, you can run Windows in Hi-Color mode at 800x600 or in 8-bit color mode at 1024x768.

Caveat: this applies in DOS (moreover, there are hardly any DOS games that do over 800x600 at any number of colours).

If you intend to run Windows, even if it's Win3.11, that extra MB makes a lot of difference. I soldiered through the second half of the 1990s with a 1MB S3 868 card in my Pentium 60 (which performs on par with a DX4-100 in most tasks) running DOS 6.22 and Win3.1. For gaming: no problem.
But I also had to do my coursework and even do some DTP on that beast - and then things got problematic. 1024x768 would have been ideal for plain word processing, but even dropping down to 16b colour was less than ideal for DTP, let alone 8b. In the end, I kept changing resolution moving from compromise to compromise, wasting time and getting sore eyes and back. Don't be like me, get that. extra MB of RAM. It's on a separate little card with the sockets to match those pins, and two 4Mbit DRAM chips in between. If you can find it, it will be (almost) for free. I can know, I gave away two some months back 😉

Reply 13 of 17, by zyga64

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There was interesting topic here about expanding video ram: Does one extra megabyte of video ram make a difference?

In case of ET4000, the difference is noticeable.

1) VLSI SCAMP /286@20 /4M /CL-GD5422 /CMI8330
2) i420EX /486DX33 /16M /TGUI9440 /GUS+ALS100+MT32PI
3) i430FX /K6-2@400 /64M /Rage Pro PCI /ES1370+YMF718
4) i440BX /P!!!750 /256M /MX440 /SBLive!
5) iB75 /3470s /4G /HD7750 /HDA

Reply 14 of 17, by tayyare

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stamasd wrote:

Actually both the OKI M514256 and the V53C104HK45 are 256kx4bit DRAM. Each pair of these should provide 256kbyte RAM, so 8 of them=2MB.
http://pdf.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheet/oki/MSM514256C.pdf
https://www.datasheets360.com/pdf/6806924364049024400

I think your calculation is a bit off...

Yes, two 44246 chips mean 256KB per pair. But there are 8 chips, so there are only 4 pairs. Which results in 256 x 4 = 1024 KB. The board has 1MB of video RAM just as its BIOS shows.

This aside, I also agree that 1MB is enough for a 386-486 system for almost all practical reasons.

GA-6VTXE PIII 1.4+512MB
Geforce4 Ti 4200 64MB
Diamond Monster 3D 12MB SLI
SB AWE64 PNP+32MB
120GB IDE Samsung/80GB IDE Seagate/146GB SCSI Compaq/73GB SCSI IBM
Adaptec AHA29160
3com 3C905B-TX
Gotek+CF Reader
MSDOS 6.22+Win 3.11/95 OSR2.1/98SE/ME/2000

Reply 15 of 17, by PLB-389

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Thanks all for your input. I do intend on installing Win95 on this machine, so I think the extra video memory would be nice just to generate a prettier desktop. Under no illusions that it'll improve gaming performance in DOS though. That said, the memory upgrade module for this machine seems to be unobtainium, so I'll have to stick with what I have unless I get lucky and it pops up on ebay or something.

I might have an old 8x cd rom somewhere too. I was thinking I would like a slower CDROM drive but the problem with all the drives is the drive door belts go dry and they stop opening and closing. I need to find some o-rings or something else suitable to replace them!

Reply 16 of 17, by tayyare

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PLB-389 wrote:

Thanks all for your input. I do intend on installing Win95 on this machine, so I think the extra video memory would be nice just to generate a prettier desktop. Under no illusions that it'll improve gaming performance in DOS though. That said, the memory upgrade module for this machine seems to be unobtainium, so I'll have to stick with what I have unless I get lucky and it pops up on ebay or something.

I might have an old 8x cd rom somewhere too. I was thinking I would like a slower CDROM drive but the problem with all the drives is the drive door belts go dry and they stop opening and closing. I need to find some o-rings or something else suitable to replace them!

Aliexpress had all kinds of them for cheap. Here is an example:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10pcs-lot-OD5 … .3da24c4d1cpZM3

GA-6VTXE PIII 1.4+512MB
Geforce4 Ti 4200 64MB
Diamond Monster 3D 12MB SLI
SB AWE64 PNP+32MB
120GB IDE Samsung/80GB IDE Seagate/146GB SCSI Compaq/73GB SCSI IBM
Adaptec AHA29160
3com 3C905B-TX
Gotek+CF Reader
MSDOS 6.22+Win 3.11/95 OSR2.1/98SE/ME/2000

Reply 17 of 17, by chinny22

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You can pretty much get away with no CD drive these days if you have a large HDD and network card.
I've got drivers and Win95 install files on a separate partition, and once Windows is up I can transfer files aver the network if needed.
and just about all my games are no-cd cracked, partly to help performance, partly to save wear and tear on the CD's. but I do loose music in games that use redbook audio.

But get for some people that's part of the nostalgia fun