For me, it depends on the condition of the case, the internal components, etc. If the case is in a decent condition, I'd probably try and leave the original motherboard in there, though I'd remove the motherboard temporarily just to give the case a good cleaning. I'd probably personally keep it as stock, if most of it came together in a package like that. I have a (much newer) Dell Dimension 3000 that I have kept fully stock because not only did it come with everything (including monitor/keyboard/mouse/speakers), but it also had the HDD in it and I was able to recover it back to the original configuration.

I'm guessing that one didn't come with all the stock components, so upgrading could be an option.

I find motherboards from that era with AGP to be a much better option. I got a Gateway Tabor III motherboard from eBay for quite cheap (which is basically just a bogg-standard AGP Intel i440 chipset motherboard), and it has worked alright, though it's taken some time to get around all the problems with installing an OEM board into a case that's not what it originally came in. But for US$28, you can't beat it, and it also came with a 500MHz Pentium III Katmai.

You might also run into issues with the front panel leads in that case. Companies often liked to use proprietary front panel connectors, so if you put in a mobo from a different computer/a custom one, the front panel may not fit and you might end up with one or more missing indicator lights (even though the problem was reversed in my case, it took me months to figure out the front panel connector pinout for the Tabor III- for quite a while I had to use an external PCI IDE controller just to get the HDD indicator light working).

I'd probably go with using the other case and put in a cheap OEM mobo of some kind. If you *really* want a custom-bought board, the price for them can be significantly higher, in the US$60 range.

I am probably missing a bunch of things, but I should think of them later and be able to post that as well.

the branding... those are wrong feathers! Dell does not make components.
Or does that? The chips are Signetics, Texas Instruments, Hitachi... The connectors are AMP or Molex... and so on. Also those network adapter cards which I have seen were from Compaq computers were made by Intel, if there is an onboard SCSI then it is Symbios Logic or Adaptec.
Just like HP, also Nokia and Dell did not not really produced their monitors but just added more for the price compared to the producers own factory name monitor (they used Sony, NEC, LG, Samsung contents... if I remember correctly). Also the same with optical drives -- The CD-writing program imgburn warns that before updating the writers firmware you should check the "real producer" of the drive.

And cases with their letters or names, well, never mind.
Do you remember those desktop cases with LED number segments? Those were "expected to show" the CPU speed with its numbers on the front panel, however man can set that for anything and so we did, to show hexadecimal numbers instead and actually the better impression gave situation where real modest configuration was a way much faster than expected! 😁 😁

One my friend has placed on his computer the sticker which was in origin on a washing machine in "Before powering the machine make sure that the screws are removed".
My mirror in a toilet has a sticker "Sounds Best on Soundblaster 24bit" and keyboard has "ATI radeon" sticker.
So, I would not flinch if ever seeing the similar stickers on the toilet seat like "Intel Inside", and not on a desktop case.

The idea or recommendation -- just get the both options or machines and then let it soak into your mind. Perhaps there is a need for spares too or actually all the dell motherboard will be moved to some custom no-name case instead (which perhaps you make yourself).

IMHO trouble with those branded motherboards are that they are in a non-standard size and mount points, thus requiring its own case too and other motherboards wont fit. And do not believe if the sticker on HDD says that it is made by DELL.

jxalex wrote:

the branding... those are wrong feathers! Dell does not make components.

I probably should've been more clear. I meant the components the computer came with. Not actual Dell manufactured components, but components licensed to be put into the computer by Dell, those with OEM markings of some kind, or custom motherboard model numbers. The parts themselves are third party but made for Dell.. or something like that.

jxalex wrote:

And cases with their letters or names, well, never mind.

I do understand your point, I once removed an Intel sticker on an old case I had because I threw an AMD system into it. I'm not worried about the stickers, but about keeping the desktop itself historically accurate, so to speak. If the OP could, over time, figure out what components came with it, he could possibly reconstruct a computer as somebody who would've bought that kinda of PC would've got. Of course, take my words with a grain of salt; this is really a subjective view, and it depends on what you value or don't value.

Some good points. Basically the computer came with everything in the tower with regards to a floppy, CPU, 128MB of RAM, a PCI modem and PCI NIC. onboard Yamaha XG (that I really wanna try out).

The CPU on the way cost me $35 - I don't mind sticking it in there to see what it can do. I have a lead on a PCI Geforce FX5200 for $30. extra RAM would be dirt cheap to find, and so would a spare HDD.

So for est ~$125 or less total investment. Could work out. No so sure on the FX5200, it seems capable of most things at 1024x768 though and its PCI.. so maybe it'll make do for now and later on I could relegate it to a "mid-90s gaming platform" and not try and run some of the later stuff on it.

+jxalex: Not every part in your car is made by Ford, Chrysler, Mercedes, etc. Its still got the badge on there though.

Neco wrote:

The CPU on the way cost me $35 - I don't mind sticking it in there to see what it can do.

I wouldn't count on it. Depending on what chipset it is, it most likely won't accept a CPU that fast. Most slot 1 motherboards, especially lower-end ones, use an 100MHz FSB, and anything beyond 700MHz or so uses a 133FSB. Put that CPU in there and it can sometimes force an FSB overclock, which can force the rest of the system to OC, particularly the AGP bus. That could cause damage theoretically, but it's not likely it will happen. Seeing as we physically can't worry about the AGP bus in this case, it might be worth a shot. I'm not too sure on that one.

Neco wrote:

Could work out. No so sure on the FX5200, it seems capable of most things at 1024x768 though and its PCI.. so maybe it'll make do for now and later on I could relegate it to a "mid-90s gaming platform" and not try and run some of the later stuff on it.

I have an AGP nVidia GeForce FX 5200 256MB DDR, and it does run fine for most games released in the late '90s and a bit into the early 2000's, though the major bottleneck would be your CPU. Theoretically, your solution fixes that, but as I said, the motherboard likely does not support that, and it might not even boot if there isn't a BIOS update to support that particular CPU.

What you seem to be wanting is a very high-end mid to late '90s gaming rig, in which case I would advise to get a new motherboard for that and use the other case. I know they're expensive, but for something to support a 1GHz PIII, you might need to specifically try and look up motherboards with a 133MHz FSB. I'm not an expert on this, but I do know that anything using the i440 based chipset is not going to like a 1GHz PIII. If it's not a i440bx, you're either in luck because it's newer, or you are kind of screwed because it is older, thus removing the bar for any upgrades even lower.

If the system came with a Pentium II instead of a Pentium III, there is no way you'll be able to upgrade to a 1GHz, because that might mean that the chipset is even older.

No, what I want is a working and capable machine for as little money as I can spend (the challenge).
What I would like is a high end gaming machine. These are two different things.

Regarding the CPU. It's a Socket 370 on a Slot 1 adapter. It will let me set voltage (if I want) but more importantly FSB speed. I don't know if it'll let me force a multiplier or not or if the system will interpret that differently. However, be that as it may you should consider this. I've got a Socket 370 P3 Coppermine @ 1ghz. i can always move that CPU to a separate, appropriate board later on. I have no AGP port to worry about (hence the search for a PCI 3D card)

You're correct on the BIOS update issue. Dell's web site is absolutely horrid in regards to actually finding the BIOS and drivers you want for your system. But for $35 I'm willing to take that chance. Why? Because if you actually look for a Slot 1 Pentium III @ 1ghz with a 100Mhz FSB - well you're gonna pay anywhere from $100 (one source I found) to between $300 - $1000 on ebay.

the $35 gamble is the safer option, even if I have to go all-in on a new motherboard for it.

Neco wrote:

Not every part in your car is made by Ford, Chrysler, Mercedes, etc. Its still got the badge on there though.

The difference is that the IBM PC compatibles are modular and their parts are interchangeable by design. It's pure marketing, come on... A PC is not an appliance like a microwave oven or a fridge, despite an OEM company's efforts to make your computer hard to customize or upgrade (on purpose and for profit: less to tinker with = less tech support calls, and weird motherboard layouts = no other way to replace them but first-party).

Maybe the first few canonical IBM x86 models can indeed be considered their own unique thing, but the rest is just fancy system building with generic parts.

Neco wrote:

No, what I want is a working and capable machine for as little money as I can spend (the challenge).
What I would like is a high end gaming machine. These are two different things.

That's a fair point. I assumed you wanted something like that because you bought a 1GHz PIII. I have a similar project running, which is why I made the Average PC Specs for the '90s thing. I have a PIII system with a 500MHz core and a 100MHz FSB with 192 megs of PC100 (probably PC 133 that has downclocked itself), and the fate of the GPU in it has yet to be decided.

Neco wrote:

Regarding the CPU. It's a Socket 370 on a Slot 1 adapter. It will let me set voltage (if I want) but more importantly FSB speed.

That solves that issue. Also, if you figure out that it's a i440 based board, try and see what that Pentium III uses as far as voltage consumption and set it to that. I have a PIII Coppermine 600MHz processor and when I found out about it taking 1.6v and the motherboard being gauged to run a 2v processor, I thought I had surely damaged the CPU at least slightly. To this day it still gives off a chemical smell if you smell at the top of the card. I took the heatsink off, and looked at it, and it seemed fine. Not sure where that came from, or even if it's related to that at all, considering that processors (should) only draw what power they need.

Neco wrote:

Because if you actually look for a Slot 1 Pentium III @ 1ghz with a 100Mhz FSB - well you're gonna pay anywhere from $100 (one source I found) to between $300 - $1000 on ebay.

$1000 is absolutely ridiculous. Anyways, with a slocket that allows you to manually adjust the FSB, I don't think it would be any more or less effective at dealing with motherboards that have an 100MHz FSB than an actual processor with an 100MHz FSB. I think your biggest problem and the worst case scenario (hopefully, at least) is the lack of a BIOS update that allows it to boot with a 1GHz processor.

As far as keeping it original goes, I'd make sure that all the upgrades done to it were reversible, so that when you get a motherboard that better supports that PIII 1GHz, you can just undo all the upgrades you gave that one and have it as a good example of a cheap(ish) '90s Dell computer.

Yeah in this case, everything is reversible. I'm not doing any physical mods. Not throwing out the CPU it came with (P2 350mhz).

VRM on the Slocket should handle any concerns with overvolting. You have jumper settings for auto, and then stages between 1.6v and 2.6V depending on board revision. The Particular one I purchase was the MSI 6905 MASTER Version 2. Just wish it had come with the locking tabs. (You can get a 6905 Dual, earlier board rev, CIB w/locking tabs for $17)

VRM with regards to CPUs works MUCH differently than general applied assumptions about electricity out of the wall socket. A computer PSU may only draw what the components are demanding it feed it, same with a car alternator, etc. But that is because those supplies are regulated in some way, in a way the user typically can't modify. On a motherboard its different. We have dip switches, jumpers, and later in the future, software controls in the BIOS that allow us to tell/force the motherboard to supply X voltage no matter what. on more modern PC's you can set a an upper/lower limit I think but typically people leave things on "auto" unless going for an extreme overclock.

when you set 2volts on a motherboard jumper, it is going to feed that CPU 2volts whether it wants them or not 😀

Neco wrote:

when you set 2volts on a motherboard jumper, it is going to feed that CPU 2volts whether it wants them or not

See, that's the thing. I can't tell if it damaged it or not because it ran like that for around 2 or 3 months, give or take, and the BIOS even recognized what the processor was. The problem is, there is absolutely zero documentation available for that motherboard anymore. Even if the jumpers are there, I don't have any way of identifying what they are because they aren't labeled on the board itself. It took me 3 months to find the front panel pinout, much less what the various jumpers do on the board. Oh, well.

If you have any friends who are electrical engineers and work on computer type stuff, you might try asking them if they can document what goes where on your motherboard.... but that's probably a long shot.

Neco wrote:

If you have any friends who are electrical engineers and work on computer type stuff, you might try asking them if they can document what goes where on your motherboard.... but that's probably a long shot.

I highly doubt that's going to be possible right now, but by the time it would be possible, I'll have probably moved on to a custom motherboard with better documentation, and more features. I guess this one works for now, and considering the two, the Katmai doesn't really perform terribly worse than the Coppermine.

Anyways, good luck on your build! I hope it goes well. The fact that it came with a PII 350 worries me somewhat, but like you said, it's a gamble. It may or may not work.

This discussion got me motivated to try and do something on it while waiting for the CPU to show up.

Well, I got an old 30GB Seagate HDD put into it, and the floppy at least appears to work... the DVD-ROM however does not. Drive door initially jammed, I used the pinhole release. it started making funky motor sounds and the tray floats in and out freely so I'm not sure if the teeth are toast or it just came off the rails or what...lmao

also exhaust fan bearing for the CPU are shot its really annoying 😀

I'm actually kind of mad now because I don't have a spare IDE interface optical or even a SATA - > IDE converter

also mad about this case I can tell someone else has tried to get inside it, probably to try and replace the DVD-ROM

....I can't figure it out I'm ready to go hulk on it...considering abandoning it over this 🤣

I am refurbishing a similar PC; a Dell Dimension XPS D333. All I changed from the original config was add a Voodoo 2 with an eye towards an SLI setup later and replace the non-stock CDROM it came with with a functional DVDROM (as per original config).

Its my usual drill with OEMs. If I can add to it (RAM, USB 2.0, Network, Sound and Graphics if they were originally Onboard) I will otherwise I keep or revert them to stock. I will not replace cpu, expansion cards and if functional hard drives. I already have enough custom built crap to max out.

I changed the HDD in my Deskpro EN to a 80gb drive for storing ISOs on it and two days later already feel it was a wrong decision, the 20gb goes back in tonight; ISOs can be served from network or USB...

Its just me though..

Yeah I am sort of leaning towards leaving this one alone. If I can get a cheap IDE CD/DVD-ROM to replace this busted one, and maybe put my voodoo2 in it to see if it works or not (I bought it shortly after 3dfx went bankrupt for the princely sum of $45, and now I regret not getting two or three).

Not sure what I'm gonna do with that CPU now though...lmao. I know from poking around the Vogons wiki there is the ASUS P5PE-VM that can take a Celeron 400 series CPU and be compatible all the way down to Windows98 so that is kind of one option. I'd rather avoid anything Pentium 4 + RDRAM. The first option is about as expensive as picking up a good socket 370 board for the P3, a CUSL or TUSL has a bit of a price difference but I'm not sure if it matters are those clock speeds ultimately, which CPU you want to go for (C vs T)

If it's a 100MHz FSB P3 1GHz with a working slocket, sell it to me (if you are in Europe that is). 😎

To be honest, I could easily trade a working Socket 370 motherboard, CPU and RAM setup for a 1GHz P3 and working slocket, I have more Socket 370 stuff than I need.

Unfortunately I'm not in Europe. If it works in this machine (to such a degree as I can do testing) maybe we can work something out. Depending on what it'll cost to ship (seems even sending a letter is ridiculously expensive these days)

🤣 so I went looking up replacements for this busted DVD drive.

It's a Toshiba SD-M1202 ver. 02 manufactured in 1999. Can't seem to locate one on ebay, the ones listed have no volume adjustment knob. One cheap the rest start hitting $20 range and up I think.
I did find a similar model that looks the same externally w/volume etc. It's the M-1212 also made in 1999

not sure if I wanna spring on anything right now tbh.. I am starting to regard this machine as more of a toy to play with, I wanna get a real machine up and running.