VOGONS


First post, by tanasen

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So I just got this dirty 1992 made in UK Model M2 with buckling springs and while the caps and scroll lock leds seem to turn on the keyboard is not recognized by none of my systems. I've tested it in three different pc's with no success. The first thing I found on google about this keyboard was how unreliable its capacitors were and the second was how much PITA is disassembling and reassembling it.
But there is another issue that I'm not quite sure about this model. Its PS/2 connector is not like any other PS/2 keyboard; instead of the regular 6+1 pins this has only 4+1... So my main question is whether this connector is compatible with all regular PS/2 ports or does it need a special adaptor? If so, this could be its problem and not the capacitors, right?
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Sorry about the large pictures 😁

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Reply 1 of 9, by zstandig

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First off, that's a cool looking keyboard, I never saw a model M like that.

Next, that connector looks iffy, almost like the pins broke off. Maybe it can be rewired?

Reply 3 of 9, by tanasen

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Yeah this is not broken, it's just made like this...
So after further research I found out that the two leds lighting up is the common symptom of dried up capacitors. I'm going to disassemble the keyboard and check if indeed these caps are rated 2.2uF 50v and 47uF 16v, before ordering them.

PC1😜 III-S 1.4GHz, GA-6VTXE, 512MB SDRAM, Albatron FX5900XTV 128MB, SB Live! 5.1
PC2😜 III 800MHz, MS-6178, 256MB SDRAM, 3DFX Voodoo3 2000 PCI, Creative CT4810
PC3😜 MMX 200MHz, SY-5EAS5, 128MB SDRAM, Diamond Monster 3D, Diamond Viper V330, ESS 1868F

Reply 4 of 9, by Ozzuneoj

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Get ready for a nightmare. I actually just finished repairing one of these two days ago and I've had it for two years. When I received it it was pristine on the outside, possibly unused. It had bad capacitors and some blackened traces on the key matrix though, so even after replacing the caps it ended up being a complete nightmare to fix. I left it alone for two years after wasting several hours trying to fix it with winshield defogger repair epoxy (conductive paint basically). Most of the time spent is the disassembly and reassembly. All keycaps have to be removed before you take the keyboard apart. DO THIS FIRST, no matter what you picture in your head... there are no shortcuts here. If you leave the caps on, the second you unscrew the back all of the springs will pop up out of their housings and you'll have to manually set 101 springs back into their holders. It is very tedious and has to be done with the keyboard perched precariously on its edges to allow the springs to stay in place... if it slips down, they'll all shoot out of the housings again. You absolutely must take the key caps off, then disassemble the keyboard upside down with the springs elevated, separate all of the clips set into holes in the back and then remove the back without jostling the springs loose, or you'll have even more work to do. Realistcally, you should just plan on having to reset all of the springs anyway because its inevitable that you'll knock most or all of them loose...

The holder for the PCB inside is also an absolute garbage design and involves a series of plastic clips that were clearly only ever intended to hold the PCB in, not to have it removed. It is very hard to not break one. I had one break and had to replace it with a screw (thankfully there is a screw hole in the PCB in an area close to where the clip broke, and there isn't anything below it). This is absolutely essential because the PCB squashes down onto the contacts of the key matrix, and if there isn't enough pressure (due to broken clips) you'll have whole parts of the keyboard that don't work. I actually found that replacing the original screws on the back (only TWO screws holding this thing together... how cheap can they get??) with slightly longer pointed screws allowed me to tighten it together better which made it more reliable after all of my repairs were complete.

Anyway, the keyboard has the perfect layout, a great classic noisy-mechanical feel and sound, but is really really cheaply built and designed poorly. I can only hope that the repairs I did to the matrix all hold up. I used copper foil tape and defogger repair paint. I sincerely hope yours doesn't have damaged traces. Make 100% sure you use good caps and install them properly.

... have fun! 🙁

Now for some blitting from the back buffer.

Reply 5 of 9, by red_avatar

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I had two of these back in the day, both were destroyed by my brother in fits of anger. The more intact of the two had a few broken Function keys and a few non-working ones (cursor keys, - key and a few more) but I found another "broken" one (a pin broke off) so I'm now in the process of merging the two into a working keyboard.

I did a dry test - for those who are having problems, you CAN test every key WITHOUT having the top on (and thus all the springs and caps back into place) - you can see on the black sheet where the feet were before - simply put one spring there and a random key over the spring and press it. It works this way. Do this 104 times for each key and you'll know if any give you issues. Yes it's tedious but it's a LOT quicker than the alternative.

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Reply 6 of 9, by SirNickity

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Oh, fun! I got one of these recently -- appears brand new. Haven't tried it yet though. Not sure if I should just head straight to the purgatory of cap replacement, or try to get a year or three out of it first. (Either way, just wanted to say thanks for the tips.)

Reply 7 of 9, by red_avatar

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SirNickity wrote:

Oh, fun! I got one of these recently -- appears brand new. Haven't tried it yet though. Not sure if I should just head straight to the purgatory of cap replacement, or try to get a year or three out of it first. (Either way, just wanted to say thanks for the tips.)

I'm not going to bother with replacing the caps yet - if it works, it works. From what I read, bad caps won't leak but will just make the keyboard malfunction until you replace them.

Also: my earlier tip can even be made easier: just use a metal soft-tipped item to press the regions to test them.

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Reply 8 of 9, by red_avatar

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Whelp I spoke too soon. One or both of the caps must have dried out because half the time the keyboard isn't detected. Worked fine the first 5-10 times I turned on the PC but now it doesn't. Thing is, I know very little about capacitors - it says J1 47 16V on one of them - I suspect 47 = 47µF and J1 states the tolerance (5.0%)?

Retro game fanatic.
IBM PS1 386SX25 - 4MB
IBM Aptiva 486SX33 - 8MB - 2GB CF - SB16
IBM PC350 P233MMX - 64MB - 32GB SSD - AWE64 - Voodoo2
PIII600 - 320MB - 480GB SSD - SB Live! - GF4 Ti 4200
i5-2500k - 3GB - SB Audigy 2 - HD 4870

Reply 9 of 9, by SirNickity

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I'm not an expert at deciphering SMD markings, but I can't imagine they would spec 5% tolerance capacitors. I haven't seen the insides, but in a KB controller, they're almost certainly just bulk power decoupling caps. 20% is the norm there. 47uF sounds reasonable for a low-power device, and would make sense based on the markings you describe. Have a picture?