I use an Athlon cooler on my PCI 486, works nicely. I did have to mod the retention clip a little to make it attach to the socket (it has Pentium style mounting tabs).

Tiido wrote:

I use an Athlon cooler on my PCI 486, works nicely. I did have to mod the retention clip a little to make it attach to the socket (it has Pentium style mounting tabs).

What kind of mod you had to do? I actually might have a athlon cooler if cooler for athlon xp is ok.

I checked the athlon cooler and I think it is too big and would block the hard drive cage.
Anyone has any ideas related to my original questions? What kind of cooler/fan I would actually need for running 486 at the speeds I mentioned?

Depends. Some models work just fine with high temperatures, some don't.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/586-CPU-Fan-Heats … 6IAAOSw2olZcmyk

I use one of these on my 5x86 amd 133 oc at 160 4x40fsb

I don't really try touch it alot but the first few tiems I tried after 10 or 20 minutes the heatsink was actually cold

Thing is I had to glue the heatsink just to the edges of the cpu because its so hard to find anything that clips into 486 sockets

I got pictures in my old thread here
Turbochip amd 133mzh cpu fan upgrade

You could always use a laptop heatpipe cooler. Just have to make sure the base is the correct size to cool the 486 and then you have something really low profile, is cooled by a fan, and won't block any cards if the CPU socket is in a horrible location like a lot of 486 boards are. Also have to rig up some way to mount it.

Other than that, I would just try sticking a fan on that heatsink. A bit of air movement will do wonders compared to just a passive heatsink.

definitely a fan will make the biggest difference

Baoran wrote:

I have one of those amd 486 dx4 100Mhz cpus that say heatsink&fan required on the chip. I currently only have arctic silver past […]
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I have one of those amd 486 dx4 100Mhz cpus that say heatsink&fan required on the chip.
I currently only have arctic silver paste and this heatsink that was originally in a 90Mhz pentium system there temporarily but I don't have any fan I can attach to it.

cooler1.jpg

Yesterday I overclocked the cpu by changing jumper that changed the multiplier to 4 and I tested it as 133Mhz cpu. Because I felt unsure if it would overheat, I only tested it for 10 minutes or so. The heatsink was so hot that I was only able to hold my finger there for a second or less.
What kind of cooling I would need if I wanted to run it at 133Mhz in the future?
Would the cpu be faster if I ran it using 40Mhz fsb and 3x multiplier instead at 120Mhz?
Should I not run it even at 100Mhz with just that heatsink and no fan?

First of all, please don't do that, please don't abuse old and very limited stock items by overclocking. What's the purpose of running a 486 "faster" I really don't understand.

This aside, back in the days, CPUs were thougher, their maximum operating temperatures are much higher, so 60-70 degrees celcius was considered very normal. Just a as an example, my tiny teeny 386SX-16 from 1992 literaly blistered my fingers more than once (its operating envelop is 0 to 100 degrees celcius, according to formal documentation). It never had any cooling and was working in a cheapo AT minitower case, of which the only "cooling" comes from the PSU fan. And it still works after more than a quarter century later.

The first CPU cooling requirement ever come in to place with later 486 CPUs, before that nobody was caring about it for normal usage. And even then, the thing called "CPU cooling" was a "40mm shitty fan plus some flimsy tiny teeny heatsink" combination, in 99% of the situations. There was no "which termal paste is better" craze, because nobody was using them 🤣

In short, for a 486 class CPU, what you need is a decent heatsink and just to be on the safe side, a 40mm fan. Your heatsink looks like a good one (as you already mentioned, it is designed for Pentium class CPUs so it should be more than enough). I would add a fan on top of it (you can use proper screws, or just a cable tie to connect it) and be done with it.

For the 40 x 3 or 33 x 4 question... Which is faster is depends on what you do. But 40MHz is about the limit when you start having stability problems if you are using VLB cards in your system.

But again, what's the purpose? I would rather stick to the specs.

tayyare wrote:

First of all, please don't do that, please don't abuse old and very limited stock items by overclocking. What's the purpose of r […]
Show full quote

Baoran wrote:

I have one of those amd 486 dx4 100Mhz cpus that say heatsink&fan required on the chip. I currently only have arctic silver past […]
Show full quote

I have one of those amd 486 dx4 100Mhz cpus that say heatsink&fan required on the chip.
I currently only have arctic silver paste and this heatsink that was originally in a 90Mhz pentium system there temporarily but I don't have any fan I can attach to it.

cooler1.jpg

Yesterday I overclocked the cpu by changing jumper that changed the multiplier to 4 and I tested it as 133Mhz cpu. Because I felt unsure if it would overheat, I only tested it for 10 minutes or so. The heatsink was so hot that I was only able to hold my finger there for a second or less.
What kind of cooling I would need if I wanted to run it at 133Mhz in the future?
Would the cpu be faster if I ran it using 40Mhz fsb and 3x multiplier instead at 120Mhz?
Should I not run it even at 100Mhz with just that heatsink and no fan?

First of all, please don't do that, please don't abuse old and very limited stock items by overclocking. What's the purpose of running a 486 "faster" I really don't understand.

This aside, back in the days, CPUs were thougher, their maximum operating temperatures are much higher, so 60-70 degrees celcius was considered very normal. Just a as an example, my tiny teeny 386SX-16 from 1992 literaly blistered my fingers more than once (its operating envelop is 0 to 100 degrees celcius, according to formal documentation). It never had any cooling and was working in a cheapo AT minitower case, of which the only "cooling" comes from the PSU fan. And it still works after more than a quarter century later.

The first CPU cooling requirement ever come in to place with later 486 CPUs, before that nobody was caring about it for normal usage. And even then, the thing called "CPU cooling" was a "40mm shitty fan plus some flimsy tiny teeny heatsink" combination, in 99% of the situations. There was no "which termal paste is better" craze, because nobody was using them 🤣

In short, for a 486 class CPU, what you need is a decent heatsink and just to be on the safe side, a 40mm fan. Your heatsink looks like a good one (as you already mentioned, it is designed for Pentium class CPUs so it should be more than enough). I would add a fan on top of it (you can use proper screws, or just a cable tie to connect it) and be done with it.

For the 40 x 3 or 33 x 4 question... Which is faster is depends on what you do. But 40MHz is about the limit when you start having stability problems if you are using VLB cards in your system.

But again, what's the purpose? I would rather stick to the specs.

Reason for trying it was so see if I could manage with putting my voodoo 1 card in a 486. I have two 486 builds at the moment. I also have two K6-III+ build which have some issues that need to be fixed at least in one of them. I was thinking that my voodoo 2 card would be better in K6-III+ build, so that left me testing voodoo 1 in the 486 buid that had pci motherboard and seeing what would be the best case scenario if it was overclocked to 133Mhz. I know overclocking is not good for old hardware and I most likely won't keep it overclocked in the future.

I know I should build a pentium system for voodoo 1 but I have so many systems and so little space...

Of course it's your hardware to do with as you wish.

But also have to ask what is the point? the 33mhz, sure maybe it'll give you an extra fps or 2 but its not going make any real world difference, a game that runs slow will still run slow.
Anything above 66Mhz is already fast in 486 era, and DX4 and above your pretty much pushing the limit of Socket 3, its the lack of FPU thats now the cause of slowness.

Games will still run slow but the few that work in a 486 a Voodoo isn't a bad idea as the voodoo does the 3d work that otherwise the 486 with its weak FPU would have to do in software mode.

I believe Voodoo1 is a very good fit for 486 systems. 1995-1996 was the time during which original Voodoo was introduced and most popular. And during the same years, a Pentium was still an expensive proposition and high end 486 (DX4 100, 5x86,etc. ) was the mainstream PC for most of the common folks, at least in where I live. I had my first 486 in late 1994 and my first Pentium in early 1997.

For me things wouldn't feel right if I diddn't overclock! 😁

I overclocked every overclockable desktop CPU I used back in the 90s and I still do today.

Taking an AMD DX4-100 with a working 4x multiplier to 133MHz or even higher isn't risky simply because they are DX5/5x86 CPUs in disguise. These CPUs don't even put that much stress on the motherboard VRMs unless overvolted and pushed beyond 160MHz.

A Cyrix 586-100 running at stock uses about 4W which is about the same as an AMD 486 DX5/5x86 @160MHz. Use a heatsink + fan or a large heatsink and everything will be alright.

The older versions of the AMD DX4-100 without 4x multiplier support are often crappy overclockers and some won't even do 120MHz. For those owning one of these an upgrade to a chip with the newer core is probably a better choice than trying to overclock the old one.

tayyare wrote:

I believe Voodoo1 is a very good fit for 486 systems. 1995-1996 was the time during which original Voodoo was introduced and most popular. And during the same years, a Pentium was still an expensive proposition and high end 486 (DX4 100, 5x86,etc. ) was the mainstream PC for most of the common folks, at least in where I live. I had my first 486 in late 1994 and my first Pentium in early 1997.

One thing that surprised me was that when I first tried voodoo 1 in 486 playing tomb raider, I tried it with 33Mhz cpu and after that I tried it with that cpu and 133Mhz overclock and there wasn't huge difference in how playable tomb raider was between 33Mhz and 133Mhz.
I skipped voodoo 1 back in 90s even though I built pentium 90Mhz pc back in 1995. I only got voodoo 2 card for it when voodoo 2 was launched.

tayyare wrote:

I believe Voodoo1 is a very good fit for 486 systems. 1995-1996 was the time during which original Voodoo was introduced and most popular. And during the same years, a Pentium was still an expensive proposition and high end 486 (DX4 100, 5x86,etc. ) was the mainstream PC for most of the common folks, at least in where I live. I had my first 486 in late 1994 and my first Pentium in early 1997.

Voodoo 1 was released in late 1996, 486s were certainly no longer commonplace by then. I had a DX4-100 at the time, and a good friend of mine had a Pentium 90. In early 1997 he got a Voodoo 1, a Pure3D card. While I envied his setup, my first upgrade was to get a Pentium 133. My experience mimics that of the poster above, I did not get a 3D accelerator until 1998 when I upgraded to a Pentium II 300 and got a Diamond Monster3D II 8MB. I don't recall anyone I know going for a 3D accelerator before a Pentium (and in some cases, a few weird friends who went for a Cyrix mII - the K6 was nonexistant where I grew up) but I would be interested in hearing any stories of people who actually used a Voodoo card in a 486..

Funny thing though, the 486 pci motherboard I am using is from end of 1996 which is pretty much exactly when voodoo 1 was launched. The cpu and the pci video card I am using are also from 1996. I think a lot of people still used 486 when voodoo 1 was launched, but that doesn't mean performance is good, but it means I could make a period correct 1996 486 build.

appiah4 wrote:

tayyare wrote:

I believe Voodoo1 is a very good fit for 486 systems. 1995-1996 was the time during which original Voodoo was introduced and most popular. And during the same years, a Pentium was still an expensive proposition and high end 486 (DX4 100, 5x86,etc. ) was the mainstream PC for most of the common folks, at least in where I live. I had my first 486 in late 1994 and my first Pentium in early 1997.

Voodoo 1 was released in late 1996, 486s were certainly no longer commonplace by then. I had a DX4-100 at the time, and a good friend of mine had a Pentium 90. In early 1997 he got a Voodoo 1, a Pure3D card. While I envied his setup, my first upgrade was to get a Pentium 133. My experience mimics that of the poster above, I did not get a 3D accelerator until 1998 when I upgraded to a Pentium II 300 and got a Diamond Monster3D II 8MB. I don't recall anyone I know going for a 3D accelerator before a Pentium (and in some cases, a few weird friends who went for a Cyrix mII - the K6 was nonexistant where I grew up) but I would be interested in hearing any stories of people who actually used a Voodoo card in a 486..

During that time (late 1994 to late 1996) me and my mates were a considerably large gang of computer users, newly graduated younglings, generally having their first jobs ever, earning their own money for the first time. Almost nobody was rich, but at least not dependent to their families anymore. By 1995, everyone of us had a 486. Earliest one was in early 1994, mine upgraded from an 386SX in summer 1994.

In early 1995, I was still upgrading HP Vectra 386s of the research institiute that I was working for at that time, to 486s. First Pentiums (P90s) start coming in early 1996. Serious work was being done on DEC, HP, SG workstations, PCs was not there yet for rocket science. 🤣

First ever Pentium upgrade in my gang of mates came in late 1996. I was also one of the early ones, which happened in very early 1997, from Cx 5x86 120 to P120.

So looking at this, you are probably right, Pentium was the thing to get during late 1996/early 1997, although probably already installed computers were still mostly 486s.

Two of my mates (the heavy gamers of the gang, and the richer ones 😊) had already their voodoos in their 486s by mid 1996. I still clearly remember our awe, watching the falling snow in Need for Speed for the first time, which we mortals with S3 cards had no chance to see before 🤣

Personally, I never had a seperate 3D accelerator, Voodoo or other, back in the days.

Wow, I'm telling stories about my youth and really enjoying it. I'm formally an old fart now... 🤣

As already said - the fan made the biggest difference for me albeit for some more extreme cases you also may need a meetier heatsink.
I used a iDX4 at 2x66mhz and 5V for some time in combo with an Intel SS7 cooler... those last 13mhz were a battle.

The only real problem with heatsinks is if they can be correctly attached and ain't too heavy given you have positioned your board vertically in a tower.

amadeus777999 wrote:

As already said - the fan made the biggest difference for me albeit for some more extreme cases you also may need a meetier heatsink.
I used a iDX4 at 2x66mhz and 5V for some time in combo with an Intel SS7 cooler... those last 13mhz were a battle.

The only real problem with heatsinks is if they can be correctly attached and ain't too heavy given you have positioned your board vertically in a tower.

That is the main problem, I can't see how I could attach a fan to the pentium heatsink and since the cpu is vertical only things holding the heatsink to the cpu are the sticky arctic silver thermal paste and a small lip the heatsink has.
So I in any case I am looking for a better solution to cool it.

Baoran wrote:

amadeus777999 wrote:

As already said - the fan made the biggest difference for me albeit for some more extreme cases you also may need a meetier heatsink.
I used a iDX4 at 2x66mhz and 5V for some time in combo with an Intel SS7 cooler... those last 13mhz were a battle.

The only real problem with heatsinks is if they can be correctly attached and ain't too heavy given you have positioned your board vertically in a tower.

That is the main problem, I can't see how I could attach a fan to the pentium heatsink and since the cpu is vertical only things holding the heatsink to the cpu are the sticky arctic silver thermal paste and a small lip the heatsink has.
So I in any case I am looking for a better solution to cool it.

You can find some scews that can get a hold between the heatsink fins. And cable ties might also help.