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First post, by keenmaster486

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Does the perfect computer exist?

Technology is always changing, i.e. getting more sophisticated and faster, and new standards are always being developed and implemented.

Some of this is actual innovation, and the rest of it is just companies trying to artificially render the old hardware obsolete so that everyone has to buy new. Also, this never results in a faster UI experience, as the software gets slower at about the same rate as Moore's Law. In fact, DOS 6.22 booted up faster in 1992 than Windows 10 boots up today on a typical machine, just as an example.

I think one of my goals is to break out of this neverending and expensive cycle and only ever use one computer for the rest of my life. Hahaha. What a pipe dream, right?

Everything degrades and breaks over time, eventually.

I have this idea of a sort of minimalist computer, probably a laptop. Its feature set is clearly defined and set in stone. There is no artificial planned obsolescence involved. A focus is placed on robustness, stability, simplicity of usage, and longevity. The software is developed to satisfy the predetermined feature set, ruthlessly beta tested, and then code-frozen except for bugfixes and security updates. The user interface is simple, and built with the highest respect for the end-user in mind. The hardware is sufficient for the tasks it is meant for, with no gimmicks that don't do anything useful, strange proprietary ports, or arrogant corporate illusions about being "innovative" when it's really just different for no real reason. It has a modular design, with each component discrete and easily replaceable (that is, to take care of external changes in technology such as new Wi-Fi standards). Also, the battery lasts 24 hours, and the whole thing costs $250.

At least, if I owned a computer company, this is what I would tell the engineering team to make. Wow. Maybe I'll also find a million dollars in my closet.

I also think hardware has gotten so cheap and so fast nowadays, but we are not taking as much advantage of it as we could because of software bloat. Suppose all I want my computer to do is word processing and web browsing, just like most consumers today who aren't gamers or developers. If you make the software efficient enough, you could do that using hardware similar to what was offered 10 years ago, at much less cost due to advances in manufacturing technology that have made everything cheaper.

There's also an issue with "development for its own sake", for example Gmail changing their look every couple of years without changing functionality, just so the developers have something to do.

My view is that something like a mail client, or an operating system (on the same hardware, that is) has a theoretical state somewhere out there in which it is "mature," i.e. fully functional without bugs, security holes, works great, does what it's supposed to do and does it well, etc. Few software ever gets to this point and STAYS THERE because once it gets there, the incentive to continue development is still there. This leads to change for its own sake without real improvement. A good example of this is Microsoft Office. It's had the same functionality, the core features that everyone uses and very few people step outside of, since Office '97 or so. But MS has an incentive to keep releasing new versions of the product whether or not it needs it, just to hang the shiny apple of something new to people and make them think the old version is somehow deficient in some way. Obviously sometimes it is. But honestly now I, as a normal semi-developer user, can use Office 2000 with no issues as my daily driver office suite because I simply am not among the 3% or whatever it is of people who need the new version.

Anyway, rant over... just some things that have been going through my head lately. Any thoughts?

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Reply 1 of 142, by doaks80

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It's called the law of diminishing returns. Greater and greater investment is needed for minimal outcomes. The work to go to 10nm or 7nm node infrastructure is immense, but clock speeds are still stuck at roughly 4ghz. The grunt needed to power 4k gaming is crazy, but most people won't tell the difference between that and 1080 gaming (that's why we are heading to a new games crash, which has already observably begun). VR is supposed to be the next frontier but there is little evidence people want to sit around with plastic boxes on their heads.

This is why retro gaming is so fun - hardware is very bespoke and needs to be tweaked just right to make things work. The games are better and original, with all the political correctness of the 80s and 90s stuffed in. We have to jiggle thing around in memory and make CPUs run slower, but the reward is greater because of it.

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Reply 2 of 142, by Intel486dx33

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Yes, Ever since the first computers IBM and Apple have been looking for the “perfect” computer.
Since the Macintosh Apple has been looking for the Perfect computer, Since the Osborne and laptop and note books people have been looking for the perfect All-in-one computer.

People are still looking for the perfect computer that’s why there are so many computer manufactures and types and why so many people own more than one type of computer.

Well the perfect all-in-one computer does exist.

It’s called the “iPad”

Too many reasons to list as to why the All-in-one iPad is the perfect computer.

It can do it all and anyone can learn to use an ipad in minutes.

The iPad is the Perfect computer so much so that Apple does not even consider it a computer because it is so easy to use and so powerful. It’s applications are endless.
It can even teach you how to make it, build it, assemble it, repair it, and how to write code for it.

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Reply 4 of 142, by BinaryDemon

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Intel486dx33 wrote:

Too many reasons to list as to why the All-in-one iPad is the perfect computer.

So I'm curious, I mean just comparing your argument to the OP's points- there have been several iterations of the iPad. The hardware and software has changed and evolved - at least under the hood if not visibly to the end user. Which one is perfect, the original? Are they all perfect?

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Reply 5 of 142, by Ozzuneoj

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Intel486dx33 wrote:
Yes, Ever since the first computers IBM and Apple have been looking for the “perfect” computer. Since the Macintosh Apple has be […]
Show full quote

Yes, Ever since the first computers IBM and Apple have been looking for the “perfect” computer.
Since the Macintosh Apple has been looking for the Perfect computer, Since the Osborne and laptop and note books people have been looking for the perfect All-in-one computer.

People are still looking for the perfect computer that’s why there are so many computer manufactures and types and why so many people own more than one type of computer.

Well the perfect all-in-one computer does exist.

It’s called the “iPad”

Too many reasons to list as to why the All-in-one iPad is the perfect computer.

It can do it all and anyone can learn to use an ipad in minutes.

The iPad is the Perfect computer so much so that Apple does not even consider it a computer because it is so easy to use and so powerful. It’s applications are endless.
It can even teach you how to make it, build it, assemble it, repair it, and how to write code for it.

I don't even know what to say about this...

Now for some blitting from the back buffer.

Reply 6 of 142, by emosun

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i think the perfect machine should be able to replicate images that are just as high of quality as our eyes can see. be portable and repairable

so essentiually some kind of 8k+ laptop or tablet , but i'd like the display to be permanetly on my eyes via glasses or implants so it seemlessly blends in with normal vision.

so essentially a very powful computer that just augmented into yourself and always with you and useable at all time. that sounds pretty good.

Reply 7 of 142, by treeman

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Intel486dx33 wrote:
Yes, Ever since the first computers IBM and Apple have been looking for the “perfect” computer. Since the Macintosh Apple has be […]
Show full quote

Yes, Ever since the first computers IBM and Apple have been looking for the “perfect” computer.
Since the Macintosh Apple has been looking for the Perfect computer, Since the Osborne and laptop and note books people have been looking for the perfect All-in-one computer.

People are still looking for the perfect computer that’s why there are so many computer manufactures and types and why so many people own more than one type of computer.

Well the perfect all-in-one computer does exist.

It’s called the “iPad”

Too many reasons to list as to why the All-in-one iPad is the perfect computer.

It can do it all and anyone can learn to use an ipad in minutes.

The iPad is the Perfect computer so much so that Apple does not even consider it a computer because it is so easy to use and so powerful. It’s applications are endless.
It can even teach you how to make it, build it, assemble it, repair it, and how to write code for it.

😵 and best of all it can throw random error codes that have no meaning and force you to be connected to itunes + Internet.
What really tops it, if you ever opened a ipad its a trap made in such special inefficient way so it will break and won't assemble in a user friendly way. 30 screws all different sizes and lengths, insert a longer screw in a shorter screw place and you break something. The software is just as bad.
this is exactly the opposite of perfect 🤣

Reply 8 of 142, by Ozzuneoj

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emosun wrote:

i think the perfect machine should be able to replicate images that are just as high of quality as our eyes can see. be portable and repairable

so essentiually some kind of 8k+ laptop or tablet , but i'd like the display to be permanetly on my eyes via glasses or implants so it seemlessly blends in with normal vision.

so essentially a very powful computer that just augmented into yourself and always with you and useable at all time. that sounds pretty good.

Sounds like the human brain...

Now for some blitting from the back buffer.

Reply 9 of 142, by cyclone3d

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Ozzuneoj wrote:
emosun wrote:

i think the perfect machine should be able to replicate images that are just as high of quality as our eyes can see. be portable and repairable

so essentiually some kind of 8k+ laptop or tablet , but i'd like the display to be permanetly on my eyes via glasses or implants so it seemlessly blends in with normal vision.

so essentially a very powful computer that just augmented into yourself and always with you and useable at all time. that sounds pretty good.

Sounds like the human brain...

So we just need to build a biometric interface for peripherals, external storage, and custom programs for our brains?

I think there would still need to be something for super-high speed calculations. Pretty sure we would have a hard time crunching all the data as fast as current computers do.

As far as the "perfect computer" goes.. I would want something with a massive number of ISA, PCI, AGP, and PCI-E slots with everything working perfectly together. The OS would also have to be able to use drivers for any hardware or other OS.

The CPU would have to be able to slow down to 8086 speeds and up to at least the speed of a current computer and be infinitely up-gradable. The CPU speed would be able to automagically adjust to the perfect speed for speed sensitive games and applications.

Speed sensitive ISA cards would not have speed sensitivity issues even with the CPU running at max speed.

Different slots would be able to be enabled and disabled at the push of a button while the computer is on and without crashing as long as you are not running a game/application that is utilizing a card in a slot that you disable - and if it was, then it would not let you disable that slot until you exited the program that was using it.

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Reply 10 of 142, by .legaCy

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emosun wrote:

i think the perfect machine should be able to replicate images that are just as high of quality as our eyes can see. be portable and repairable

so essentiually some kind of 8k+ laptop or tablet , but i'd like the display to be permanetly on my eyes via glasses or implants so it seemlessly blends in with normal vision.

so essentially a very powful computer that just augmented into yourself and always with you and useable at all time. that sounds pretty good.

Image looking good doesn't need a insane resolution, it is mostly about ray tracing, the DPI is also important(so bigger screens uses a bigger resolution).
Nowadays you can't see the difference on 3d ray traced objects put into scene, of course that requires time to render and couldn't be used on games yet because no one will enjoy playing a game with 1 frame per 40h.

doaks80 wrote:

It's called the law of diminishing returns. Greater and greater investment is needed for minimal outcomes. The work to go to 10nm or 7nm node infrastructure is immense, but clock speeds are still stuck at roughly 4ghz. The grunt needed to power 4k gaming is crazy, but most people won't tell the difference between that and 1080 gaming (that's why we are heading to a new games crash, which has already observably begun). VR is supposed to be the next frontier but there is little evidence people want to sit around with plastic boxes on their heads.

This is why retro gaming is so fun - hardware is very bespoke and needs to be tweaked just right to make things work. The games are better and original, with all the political correctness of the 80s and 90s stuffed in. We have to jiggle thing around in memory and make CPUs run slower, but the reward is greater because of it.

Old games are fun but some new games are too, like games that weren't technically feasible, for example i play a lot of Space Engineers, it is in early access, it is not a graphical advanced game, but the features like the freedom to build, the size of the game area, the game lacks aerodynamics but it the physics are nice.

treeman wrote:
:dead: and best of all it can throw random error codes that have no meaning and force you to be connected to itunes + Internet. […]
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Intel486dx33 wrote:
Yes, Ever since the first computers IBM and Apple have been looking for the “perfect” computer. Since the Macintosh Apple has be […]
Show full quote

Yes, Ever since the first computers IBM and Apple have been looking for the “perfect” computer.
Since the Macintosh Apple has been looking for the Perfect computer, Since the Osborne and laptop and note books people have been looking for the perfect All-in-one computer.

People are still looking for the perfect computer that’s why there are so many computer manufactures and types and why so many people own more than one type of computer.

Well the perfect all-in-one computer does exist.

It’s called the “iPad”

Too many reasons to list as to why the All-in-one iPad is the perfect computer.

It can do it all and anyone can learn to use an ipad in minutes.

The iPad is the Perfect computer so much so that Apple does not even consider it a computer because it is so easy to use and so powerful. It’s applications are endless.
It can even teach you how to make it, build it, assemble it, repair it, and how to write code for it.

😵 and best of all it can throw random error codes that have no meaning and force you to be connected to itunes + Internet.
What really tops it, if you ever opened a ipad its a trap made in such special inefficient way so it will break and won't assemble in a user friendly way. 30 screws all different sizes and lengths, insert a longer screw in a shorter screw place and you break something. The software is just as bad.
this is exactly the opposite of perfect 🤣

as an iPad owner i can say it is true, to be honest no Apple device are made to be repaired, even iMacs, the engineering is poor to the point that they make a connector featuring 24v for LCD backlight line right next to a data line that goes to the mux chip(that change seamslessly the use of the gpu between the integrated gpu present on intel cpus), or in the worst case the cpu itself(and you can imagine how terrible are the results of sending 24v to the cpu).
The 3rd video that you watch Louis Rossmann repair a macbook or watch Jessa Jones from iPad Rehab repair iPhones or iPads you will see that Apple devices are overpriced devices poorly put together from a evil company that don't wanna their customers repairing their devices because of money.
and this is coming from a person who had a MacBook Air, Apple TV, iPhone since iPhone4, iPad since iPad 2.
i will never buy it again.
About the software side, they were reasonably good, i mean iOS and their apps works pretty well on the underpowered and overpriced hardware present on Apple devices, MacOS X was good for me until mavericks.

Reply 11 of 142, by treeman

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ill give Apple 1 thing, their software on the iPhones and ipads is optimised very well on exactly what you said underpowered and obsolete hardware, and yes it is a evil company going from the design to what happens in the foxconn factories in china, there is some good documentaries on youtube. Nets in windows so the workers can't jump out to suicide

Reply 12 of 142, by Intel486dx33

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You laugh but watch out. I see the iPad becoming more and more powerful. And smaller like the iPhone as to be more mobile.It is already more powerful than most dual core laptops and even the dual core Mac mini and MacBook Pro.

And loaded with sensors there will be nothing the iPad will not be able to do.

Just like a device out of Star trek.

The Perfect computer will be all-in-one device that will allow you to build on it’s one creation.
With the iPad it comes with a built in keyboard, and allows you to write apps for it’s IOS.
The iPad can do it all.
Once you use an iPad you will never switch to another type of tablet.

It just works. It is magical.

You can’t build a good computer with all the spec of the iPad for the price of the base model iPad $250 - $330

Last edited by Intel486dx33 on 2018-12-17, 15:20. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 13 of 142, by Intel486dx33

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emosun wrote:

i think the perfect machine should be able to replicate images that are just as high of quality as our eyes can see. be portable and repairable

so essentiually some kind of 8k+ laptop or tablet , but i'd like the display to be permanetly on my eyes via glasses or implants so it seemlessly blends in with normal vision.

so essentially a very powful computer that just augmented into yourself and always with you and useable at all time. that sounds pretty good.

That’s not human. That's BORG tech.

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Last edited by Intel486dx33 on 2018-12-17, 15:55. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 14 of 142, by oeuvre

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iPads and Android tablets are toys. They're literally just bigger versions of smartphones. Mobile browsing sucks, typing on them is clumsy, they have next to zero connectivity, cannot be upgraded, and can't even do half the things a laptop can do. Oh and the prices of them, especially the higher end tablets, are insane.

And they're pretty decently powered but what good is it when every app you use takes up the entire screen? It was always a gimmick from day one and it will still be.

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Reply 15 of 142, by .legaCy

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Intel486dx33 wrote:
You laugh but watch out. I see the iPad becoming more and more powerful. And smaller like the iPhone as to be more mobile.It is […]
Show full quote

You laugh but watch out. I see the iPad becoming more and more powerful. And smaller like the iPhone as to be more mobile.It is already more powerful than most dual core laptops and even the dual core Mac mini and MacBook Pro.

The Perfect computer will be all-in-one device that will allow you to build on it’s one creation.
With the iPad it come with a built in keyboard, and allows you to write apps for it’s IOS.
The iPad can do it all.
Once you use an iPad you will never switch to another type of tablet.

It just works. It is magical.

AFAIK to design apps on iPad you need to have a Apple computer with xcode and a pay a yearly subscription fee to Apple to sign your app, jailbreaking your device will allow you to execute unsigned code but you don't develop apps directly on it, with Cydia Impactor you can also install a fake certificate.
you are mixing hardware and software, iOS is pretty well optimized, the hardware on iPad is not powerful at all.
The iPad itself is pretty limited, you are restricted to what Apple wants you to run except on jailbroken devices, and Apple reject tons of stuff, like YouTube video downloaders, gab.ai social network app, etc etc etc...

oeuvre wrote:

iPads and Android tablets are toys. They're literally just bigger versions of smartphones. Mobile browsing sucks, typing on them is clumsy, they have next to zero connectivity, cannot be upgraded, and can't even do half the things a laptop can do. Oh and the prices of them, especially the higher end tablets, are insane.

And they're pretty decently powered but what good is it when every app you use takes up the entire screen? It was always a gimmick from day one and it will still be.

Agreed, but they have their use, 90% of my youtube time is on a tablet, for serious gaming and work you need something like a laptop or a desktop yet.

Reply 16 of 142, by realnc

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Intel486dx33 wrote:

You can’t build a good computer with all the spec of the iPad for the price of the base model iPad $250 - $330

Why would a computer need the specs of an iPad though? On my computer, I need a keyboard, a mouse, and a 27" monitor so I can actually enjoy the content rather than looking at a small display where half of it is covered and obstructed by my hands.

I don't see how the iPad can even remotely compete here. Or that it needs to, for that matter.

Reply 17 of 142, by Intel486dx33

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realnc wrote:
Intel486dx33 wrote:

You can’t build a good computer with all the spec of the iPad for the price of the base model iPad $250 - $330

Why would a computer need the specs of an iPad though? On my computer, I need a keyboard, a mouse, and a 27" monitor so I can actually enjoy the content rather than looking at a small display where half of it is covered and obstructed by my hands.

I don't see how the iPad can even remotely compete here. Or that it needs to, for that matter.

I did not say it was the perfect desktop computer. Just the best all around computer.
For gaming you probably want some kind of thrustmaster chair setup with a steering wheel, pedals, controllers and a large displays.

The iPad is:
Small
Mobile
Portable
Built-in UPS
Dual cameras ( lacks rear light )
Retina display
A10 CPU is very powerfull, more powerfull than most intel dual core CPU's and even older quad core CPU's
With the iCloud everything get backed up automatically, You never loose anything. You can always perform a device restore and backup.
Apple store provide only apps that are supported on the iPad.
Photos are automatically backed up.
Notes are automatically backed up.
Docs are automatically backed up
With the iPad iWorks apps and MS Office apps are FREE !
Lots of FREE apps
Games play good on an iPad.
A Thrustmaster or similar game console / controller maybe in the works for the iPad ? ( Steering wheel, pedals, chair ).

Just to many items to list as to why the iPad is the best All-in-One computer.

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Reply 18 of 142, by gdjacobs

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Intel486dx33 wrote:
You laugh but watch out. I see the iPad becoming more and more powerful. And smaller like the iPhone as to be more mobile.It is […]
Show full quote

You laugh but watch out. I see the iPad becoming more and more powerful. And smaller like the iPhone as to be more mobile.It is already more powerful than most dual core laptops and even the dual core Mac mini and MacBook Pro.

And loaded with sensors there will be nothing the iPad will not be able to do.

Just like a device out of Star trek.

The Perfect computer will be all-in-one device that will allow you to build on it’s one creation.
With the iPad it comes with a built in keyboard, and allows you to write apps for it’s IOS.
The iPad can do it all.
Once you use an iPad you will never switch to another type of tablet.

It just works. It is magical.

You can’t build a good computer with all the spec of the iPad for the price of the base model iPad $250 - $330

Umm, it won't be able to run software Apple doesn't like. That's a big minus.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 19 of 142, by realnc

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It seems you're comparing it to a laptop, not a desktop computer. You can have automatic backups on a PC or Mac too. You also get tons of free applications, and also don't need an "app store." Games are way better on PC, with much better graphics, much, much better controls (choice between PCMR mouse&keyboard or get a console controller,) and on a nice big screen.

Just because the iPad is cheap doesn't mean it's "the best all around computer". It's not bad or anything, I just can't view it as competing with a desktop.

Also, it's locked down and DRM infected, which is what actually keeps me away from it. I can install whatever I want on a PC and use it in whatever way I want. With an iPad, it feels like even though you bought it, you're only given permission to use it and you kind of "own" it only on paper, which is atrocious.