VOGONS


Maxing Intel P45 memory

Topic actions

First post, by Mamba

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Hello all,

After pushing ddr capacity of nforce4/pro, I am trying to maxing out the P45 chipset.
It is common knowledge that p45 can handle 16gb DDR2 or 3.
Single 4gb banks of ddr2 are really difficult to find (except AMD only sticks).
Is there a way to identify Intel compatible ones?

I saw OCZ and Corsair Kits with skyrocketing prices.

Thank you.

Last edited by Mamba on 2019-02-02, 16:18. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 43, by dr_st

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

I can't see any scenario in this reality where 4GB DDR2 desktop sticks are worth hunting for, if they exist.

If you want 16G RAM for P45, find a DDR3 board.

https://cloakedthargoid.wordpress.com/ - Random content on hardware, software, games and toys

Reply 2 of 43, by Mamba

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
dr_st wrote:

I can't see any scenario in this reality where 4GB DDR2 desktop sticks are worth hunting for, if they exist.

If you want 16G RAM for P45, find a DDR3 board.

Well, if your reply would be the rule for this Forum, 90% of topics would be useless (to you...)
No offense...

Reply 3 of 43, by agent_x007

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

You need Dual Ranked 4GB sticks (utilising 256MB chips).
Simply check for spec sheet or whitepaper on manufacturers website.
Example : LINK (you need ones with "256x8").
Of course it won't if BIOS or board simply doesn't like modules of this capacity (like Asus Striker II Extreme which works with two 4GB modules max.).

108080818886.png

Reply 4 of 43, by Mamba

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
agent_x007 wrote:
You need Dual Ranked 4GB sticks (utilising 256MB chips). Simply check for spec sheet or whitepaper on manufacturers website. Exa […]
Show full quote

You need Dual Ranked 4GB sticks (utilising 256MB chips).
Simply check for spec sheet or whitepaper on manufacturers website.
Example : LINK (you need ones with "256x8").
Of course it won't if BIOS or board simply doesn't like modules of this capacity (like Asus Striker II Extreme which works with two 4GB modules max.).

Thanks, The motherboard I am using is a P5Q-E, DDR2 of course.

Reply 5 of 43, by dr_st

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
Mamba wrote:

Well, if your reply would be the rule for this Forum, 90% of topics would be useless (to you...)

More like 99.9% (to me personally).

However, I try to offer help when I can. Having a P45 system, I've been in this boat and have done the research.

Ask yourself the questions:

(1) Can you even find 4GB DDR2 sticks? (I couldn't, at the time)
(2) If I can find them, how much does 4 x 4GB DDR2 sticks going to set me back? (prices can vary greatly over time)
(3) Is the cost of 4 x 4GB DDR2 going to be more or less than DDR3 board + 4 x 4GB DDR3? (maybe have to factor in the time spent on replacing the board versus just adding RAM)
(4) What do I need 16GB of RAM in my P45 system for, other than bragging rights?

In the end, if all that comes out of it is a list of P45-compatible 4GB DDR2 RAM modules, that in itself will be worth the time to investigate, even if not to buy.

Good luck in your hunt.

https://cloakedthargoid.wordpress.com/ - Random content on hardware, software, games and toys

Reply 6 of 43, by Mamba

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

The only thing I want is to exploit the possibility and investigate performance, for the good or the Bad, simple.
Just like the vast majority of people here with retro hardware.
I find your answers strange for a forum like this frankly.

Reply 8 of 43, by Ozzuneoj

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Koltoroc wrote:

I don't think that intel compatible 4GB DDR2 modules were ever produced. IIRC there were no DDR2 chips with the required capacity made.

Yeah, I've never seen 4GB DDR2 Intel-compatible modules either. There would likely be no difference at all in usability between 8GB and 16GB anyway. Most modern systems can still get by with 4GB or 8GB for the vast majority of tasks and run fine (especially with an SSD). 16GB of relatively slow DDR2 in a ~2008 era system would probably not add any functionality whatsoever. If you have a very specific use case for wanting that amount of memory, like pushing an extreme overclock to see how a maxed out P45 system handles newer games that need tons of RAM, then looking for a P45 DDR3 board (as mentioned earlier) would probably give you a better idea of what the platform can do when pushed to its absolute limit. Still, it probably won't be that much different than simply using 8GB of good DDR2 in the board you have already.

Time Machine = FIC PA-2013 2.1 - K6-2 500 - 256MB PC-100 - TNT2 Pro 16MB AGP - Labway Yamaha YMF719-E - Midiman MM401

Reply 9 of 43, by dr_st

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
Mamba wrote:

The only thing I want is to exploit the possibility and investigate performance, for the good or the Bad, simple.
Just like the vast majority of people here with retro hardware.

Don't assume that everyone in the retro hardware scene has the same end-goals as you do.

Mamba wrote:

I find your answers strange for a forum like this frankly.

I find your opinion on my answers deeply uninteresting, frankly.

https://cloakedthargoid.wordpress.com/ - Random content on hardware, software, games and toys

Reply 10 of 43, by agent_x007

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Example of 4x4GB for Intel : LINK
1) You get better performance out of 16GB, if you need/use over 8GB of RAM.
2) 2x4GB is easier on chipset/IMC (higher FSB speeds are available, and the same settings can be set at lower NB Voltage)
3) Going 4x4GB will limit max. FSB vs. 4x2GB - regardless of what chipset you get.
Also, there are no "OC specific memory" with 4GB DDR2 sticks.
You probably will go as far as it will (I think 900 - 1000MHz is reasonable... maybe at CL6 [?]).

108080818886.png

Reply 11 of 43, by Mamba

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
dr_st wrote:
Don't assume that everyone in the retro hardware scene has the same end-goals as you do. […]
Show full quote
Mamba wrote:

The only thing I want is to exploit the possibility and investigate performance, for the good or the Bad, simple.
Just like the vast majority of people here with retro hardware.

Don't assume that everyone in the retro hardware scene has the same end-goals as you do.

Mamba wrote:

I find your answers strange for a forum like this frankly.

I find your opinion on my answers deeply uninteresting, frankly.

Frankly,

You can even go everywhere else and don’t waste your percious time in my topic if we have to come to this point...

Reply 12 of 43, by Mamba

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
agent_x007 wrote:
Example of 4x4GB for Intel : LINK 1) You get better performance out of 16GB, if you need/use over 8GB of RAM. 2) 2x4GB is easier […]
Show full quote

Example of 4x4GB for Intel : LINK
1) You get better performance out of 16GB, if you need/use over 8GB of RAM.
2) 2x4GB is easier on chipset/IMC (higher FSB speeds are available, and the same settings can be set at lower NB Voltage)
3) Going 4x4GB will limit max. FSB vs. 4x2GB - regardless of what chipset you get.
Also, there are no "OC specific memory" with 4GB DDR2 sticks.
You probably will go as far as it will (I think 900 - 1000MHz is reasonable... maybe at CL6 [?]).

Thank you Agent for your insights.
16gb Kits for P45 DO exists. Google it and you will find OCZ and Corsair.

Gigabyte even validate 4x4gb kit from Crucial for their p45 mobos lineup.

I am doing it for fun, nothing else.
And my request was very specific (not related to performance at all), what kind of specs should I search for to obtain Intel compatibility?

It is a specific question, similar to what kind of 2gb ddr sticks work on nforce4 to obtain a 8gb system.

Reply 13 of 43, by s3freak

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

I tried 8GB using 2x 4GB Samsung M378T5263AZ3-CF7 sticks, which is listed in the Qualified Vendors List for the ASUS P5QL-EM motherboard, based on a 'lower end' Intel G43 chipset, but it will only recognise 4GB out of it. Why ASUS put these RAM sticks on the list, when only half of it can be recognised, I don't know.

My 486 is my real DOSBox, as well as my customised DOSBox!
I am not very active on VOGONS, please send a private message if you need a quicker response!

Reply 14 of 43, by Mamba

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
s3freak wrote:

I tried 8GB using 2x 4GB Samsung M378T5263AZ3-CF7 sticks, which is listed in the Qualified Vendors List for the ASUS P5QL-EM motherboard, based on a 'lower end' Intel G43 chipset, but it will only recognise 4GB out of it. Why ASUS put these RAM sticks on the list, when only half of it can be recognised, I don't know.

Maybe because the Max memory is 8gb, not 16gb like p5q?
In any case I prefer to trust the statements from memory manufacturers.

Reply 15 of 43, by mockingbird

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

You can certainly use 16GB on boards that document only an 8GB limit... P35 will also work.

Asus boards are very relaxed with regard to memory compatibility when it comes to using ECC memory. So if you want to find 4GB DDR2 modules, look for the ECC variety, as they should be much more common.

I bought 32GB of it a while back for literally pennies on the dollar and it worked absolutely fine in my P5K-E.

7ivtic.png

Reply 16 of 43, by The Serpent Rider

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

4gb modules DDR2 (any) are most likely horrible for overclocking with best timings per clock. Even 2gb modules were bad compared to best 1gb modules (1300mhz 5-5-5-15 / 1100 4-4-4-12).

I think 2x4Gb is not worth it and 4x2Gb will be better. You don't gain too much here by using less modules, because Intel chipsets already use Commad Rate 2T by default.

I saw OCZ and Corsair Kits with skyrocketing prices.

You can always wait it out for 3-5 years. Core 2/Phenom II will be total junk by that time and DDR2 prices will plummet as DDR1.

Get up, come on get down with the sickness
Open up your hate, and let it flow into me

Reply 17 of 43, by retardware

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

It's just fun and crazy with DDR2.
I recently bought 16GB (4x 4GB) PC2-5300F for 5 euros.
But if you need the (originally cheaper) unbuffered consumer version, you'll have to pay dearly.

Another general note regarding memories: I would advise to absolutely avoid brands like OCZ and Corsair, which are known for using inferior chips bought on the black market for rejects from the original manufacturers. Unreliable RAMs are a major fun killer...

Edit: Another potential issue... how much memory does the P45 cache controller support?

Reply 18 of 43, by dr_st

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
retardware wrote:

Another general note regarding memories: I would advise to absolutely avoid brands like OCZ and Corsair, which are known for using inferior chips bought on the black market for rejects from the original manufacturers. Unreliable RAMs are a major fun killer...

It's strange; where I am from, OCZ and Corsair are considered among the top brands. Fun story - my P45 desktop has had OCZ RAM for over 10 years; my modern desktop has Corsair RAM for almost 1 year now. Both are running with zero issues... And will probably continue to do so forever - I would bet money that the RAM would probably be the last thing to fail on these systems.

Where do you get this information about "known for using inferior chips bought on the black market for rejects from the original manufacturers"? You either made that up or quote some idiot 'on the internets'... I think that it's not a case of "unreliable RAM" as much as a case of "unreliable sources".

Could it be you are also not aware that every RAM stick manufacturer (OCZ, Corsair, Kingston, Hynix, you-name-it) has multiple lineups, from cheap low-end, high-latency "value RAM" (which may also not be super-reliable) all the way to expensive "overclockers" RAM? No, that's impossible - I am sure you are aware of that.

https://cloakedthargoid.wordpress.com/ - Random content on hardware, software, games and toys

Reply 19 of 43, by Mamba

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
mockingbird wrote:

You can certainly use 16GB on boards that document only an 8GB limit... P35 will also work.

Asus boards are very relaxed with regard to memory compatibility when it comes to using ECC memory. So if you want to find 4GB DDR2 modules, look for the ECC variety, as they should be much more common.

I bought 32GB of it a while back for literally pennies on the dollar and it worked absolutely fine in my P5K-E.

Are you sure about that?
I see Tons of “AMD only” sticks of 4gb ddr2 around.
ECC only registered (FB-Dimm),
.
Could you point to something specific?