XTIDE ROM - 3COM 3C509B-C - W27E512-70

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XTIDE ROM - 3COM 3C509B-C - W27E512-70

Postby muon » 2019-2-11 @ 20:36

Is it possible to use a W27E512-70 (64k x8) chip in the 3COM boot ROM socket (32kx8) to store Universal XTIDE ROM?


If the answer is YES , is it neccesary to copy 12KB ROM four times to fill the 64KB memory or it is enought with filling with "0"s?
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Re: XTIDE ROM - 3COM 3C509B-C - W27E512-70

Postby Tiido » 2019-2-11 @ 20:39

It is always advisable to mirror the binary to fill entire memory chip. You can set the ROM window to 8, 16 or 32KB in 3COM config utility and choose appropriate location in the memory map.
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Re: XTIDE ROM - 3COM 3C509B-C - W27E512-70

Postby GigAHerZ » 2019-2-11 @ 20:40

Usually filling the chip is not necessary - it can even stay at random state. The software you program, would never point to outside of itself.

Of course, you can play tricks if you want, but... i don't think that's the case.

The beginning/entry point must be in correct position though...

EDIT: Seeing Tiido's post, i would trust him more than myself :)
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Re: XTIDE ROM - 3COM 3C509B-C - W27E512-70

Postby muon » 2019-2-14 @ 10:21

Hi! I got negative result with compatibility W27E512-70 and 3COM 3C509B-C .

I programed the W27E512-70 with the BIOS (version BETA 2.0.0.3+). This picture was taken when I read the chip to verify.
Image

The chip was plugged in the 3COM boot socket:
Image
Image

But the 3com configuration program always give me the following error:
Image
Image


Obviously I've tested all base address with the same error.

I think it's not compatible that Windbond with 3com
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Re: XTIDE ROM - 3COM 3C509B-C - W27E512-70

Postby tayyare » 2019-2-14 @ 11:22

I suggest you to use the 8KB version and "repeat-copy" it all along the 64KB of your rom to test the compatibility. You can do it with 12KB verison too AFAIK but I really have no idea how can I convert an 12KB ROM image to an 16KB one, I couldn't test it myself. "Repeat-copy" works with regular ROM sizes, like 8,16,32, etc.

I'm suggesting that because I was getting the same message while using 12KB verison in some 64KB EPROMS, and having filled the entire ROM with the 8KB version solved the problem.

Since I'd rather use the 12KB version, I'm actually using a 16KB EPROM (27C128 if I remember correctly), not a compatible EEPROM though (yes, I have a EPROM eraser).

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Re: XTIDE ROM - 3COM 3C509B-C - W27E512-70

Postby Predator99 » 2019-2-14 @ 17:57

I cannot confirm, have it running on a 3C509B-C (mine looks slighlty different) and a W27E512. I also remembered to have difficulties with the 12kb and used the 8kb. Its a good point to start. However, the card-Setup shouldnt care about it. Check your memory, do you have emm386 running or BIOS-shadowing? Turn both off....
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Re: XTIDE ROM - 3COM 3C509B-C - W27E512-70

Postby SteliosG » 2019-2-14 @ 18:23

I have the feeling that 3C509B isn't compatible with 512 chips . IIRC it supports up to 27C256 .
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Re: XTIDE ROM - 3COM 3C509B-C - W27E512-70

Postby keropi » 2019-2-14 @ 20:34

< not needed >
Last edited by keropi on 2019-2-15 @ 11:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: XTIDE ROM - 3COM 3C509B-C - W27E512-70

Postby Predator99 » 2019-2-14 @ 21:24

IMG_0959.JPG

IMG_0953.JPG

IMG_0956.JPG


--> Works
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Re: XTIDE ROM - 3COM 3C509B-C - W27E512-70

Postby muon » 2019-2-15 @ 11:08

Hi again!!
First , thanks a everyone to respond.
I think there is a problem with these "bigger" chips. Predator took some pictures with his 3com card, but my 3com has physical layout different from him. His card works properly, the mine not.

The BIOS that previously I used was ide_atl.bin release R598 (beta 2.0.0.3+). I already created a new modified BIOS from ide_atl.bin. The size of the initial file is 9102 bytes. With the utility from my EPROM programmer I've copied the BIOS in other position inside of the memory: $4000 (16K), $8000 (32K) and $C000 (48k) and I wrote in the chip. I haven't got any more free time today, but this weekend I'm going to finish the work and do extra tests.
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Re: XTIDE ROM - 3COM 3C509B-C - W27E512-70

Postby Predator99 » 2019-2-15 @ 11:42

As said, dont think its ROM content but your memory configuration. ROM content is not checked by the card.
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Re: XTIDE ROM - 3COM 3C509B-C - W27E512-70

Postby jesolo » 2019-2-15 @ 12:10

Not sure if this will help but, a friend of mine also had issues getting the V2.00 beta3 BIOS revision to work on his NIC.
After burning a V2.00 beta2 BIOS revision, it worked fine.
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Re: XTIDE ROM - 3COM 3C509B-C - W27E512-70

Postby matze79 » 2019-2-15 @ 13:26

Hm i also have latest XTIDE on 3Com but it just would go for a 27C64 ROM.
I don't want to waste Memory ;)
And it just works.
A Bigger ROM was troublesome for me and is wasting Upper Memory Blocks..

Also found out that 2764 ROMs don*t work.. :( and i have plenty of them :O
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Re: XTIDE ROM - 3COM 3C509B-C - W27E512-70

Postby mdog69 » 2019-2-15 @ 22:53

This weekend, at some point, I'm going to be trying a similar exercise with a 3C509 and a ide_386l image.
I definitely don't have any 27C128's "in stock", and I'll probably end up using 27C512, because I have more of them available.

My game plan is to
1) Pad out the image from 10240 to 16384 bytes with zeros.
2) Fill the EPROM with N times 16k images, so I'll either have a 27C256 with two identical 16k images, or a 27C512 with 4 identical images, and burn the eprom
3) When I reconfigure the card, I will set the window size to 16384bytes. (This is important - the Option ROM window size is driven by the size of the image, not the size of the device)

Step 1 is to allow step 2 to work
Step 2 is so that I don't need to care how the A14 and A15 pins are handled.
Step 3 is to that I only expose one instance of the EPROM contents to the memory map.

I'll come back with the results, which may be heavily dependent on whether my Dell 486P plays ball or not - the VGA connector or the lead seems to be a bit mechanically flakey.

The aim of the game is to get a 4.3Gb spinning rust IDE drive working in a PC which suffers from the 504/528Mb drive limitation.
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Re: XTIDE ROM - 3COM 3C509B-C - W27E512-70

Postby retardware » 2019-2-16 @ 06:14

It is always advisable to pull up or ground unconnected input pins, in this case the excess address pins. 10K resistors should be sufficient.
If they are left dangling, this may lead to glitches when reading the contents.
In case you fixate the inputs of the excess address pins correctly, either by pullup or pulldown, there is no need to duplicate the PROM contents.
The PROM test failure might be an indicator of that. At the first glimpse the PROM appears to work (see the 55 AA signature). But there are read errors leading to checksum fail. Either through the glitches I mentioned or by a flawed source file which does not checksum correctly.
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Re: XTIDE ROM - 3COM 3C509B-C - W27E512-70

Postby Jo22 » 2019-2-16 @ 13:20

matze79 wrote:Hm i also have latest XTIDE on 3Com but it just would go for a 27C64 ROM.
I don't want to waste Memory ;)
And it just works.
A Bigger ROM was troublesome for me and is wasting Upper Memory Blocks..

Also found out that 2764 ROMs don*t work.. :( and i have plenty of them :O

Not sure if it works for you, but..
viewtopic.php?p=607810#p607810
:)
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Re: XTIDE ROM - 3COM 3C509B-C - W27E512-70

Postby Predator99 » 2019-2-16 @ 17:46

IMG_1002.JPG

IMG_1003.JPG

IMG_1004.JPG


Sorry, but most hints here will not solve the issue. The NIC doesent check the ROM content. The error message say that it cannot find a free ROM-space. Thats the only problem.

So either clear up your memory or your card is damaged (whcih is rather unlikely when you take a look at mine which is still running)
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