I tried XP on my temporary Super Socket 7, i know that Cyrix M2 266 is a bit slimmer (im speaking about 2D Windows experience, here i think slow FPU is not too muc issue) but 256 MB of SDRAM is not too much and Matrox Mystique 4 MB is not great Videocard, but i forgot how slow it is. With some K6-II, K6-III around 500 MHz with 512 MB of ram and some good AGP videocard it would be faster, but it would be in order of magnitude.. so there is big benefit for Socket 370 machines.
I wonder which fastest AGP videocard make sense for SS7 / or Socket 370 machines, i now that is some Radeon 3850 AGP version, it would be overkill.. Could these machines benefit from Geforce 5/6/7?

I also dunno does these MB has Bios opition for primary Videocard slot? It would be nice use some PCI videocard for DOS/Windows 98 and AGP other for XP.

Which chipsets are and arent possible / recommended for Super socket 7 machines?

Update:
I checked lots of MBs, it seams that only 3 chipsets are here:
VIA MVP3 - the most common, rarely with ATA 66 (i know, i know that some external controller can be used)
ALI ALADDIN V - 2nd most common
and some SIS chipsets - but im not sure if it is able to handle AGP, but it has at least ATA66 support.

I have check whole vogons super socket 7 MBs list, i wasnt able to find anything to this MB, maybe someone can (image, manual, review):
Acorp 5VIA88 (ATX, AGP)

I wonder does have socket 370 cpus some temperature sensor?, because if not wrong any K6-2/3 cpus doent have it, so it could be also some advantage of socket 370 machine..

Other question is are SATA PCI adapters running fine with these platforms? Its possible to boot from them. Or SCSI ones are better? Now, when small SSD are very cheap i would like to use Sata ones, only because of lower noise.

Now, when small SSD are very cheap i would like to use Sata ones, only because of lower noise.

Bidirectional SATA-IDE adapter should be better. UDMA33 is perfectly fine even on 440BX.

In one SS7 MB manual (AOPEN AX59-Pro) i found that you can combine SIMM and DIMM memory extend max memory support from 768 (DIMM) only to 1024 MB, was someone brave enough to test this abomination? I see in other manuals something about 1 GB max mem too.
My guess i that slower SIMM memory would slowdown system.. but i would like to see some numbers..

Is there any guide for SD RAM for SS7 machine, i tried lots of sticks, lots of them are not working lots of them are working only as half size, some of them are working, i tried mainly PC100 and PC133 ones, i through that problem is that stick has to be one sided, but its elsewhere.

ruthan wrote:

Is there any guide for SD RAM for SS7 machine, i tried lots of sticks, lots of them are not working lots of them are working only as half size, some of them are working, i tried mainly PC100 and PC133 ones, i through that problem is that stick has to be one sided, but its elsewhere.

From what I remember back to when this stuff was still commercially relevant - it was motherboard specific

You can't combine SIMM and DIMM, they run on different voltages. There are some 5v DIMMs, but usually only small capacity and slower speed.

The Serpent Rider wrote:

You can't combine SIMM and DIMM, they run on different voltages. There are some 5v DIMMs, but usually only small capacity and slower speed.

Apparently you can if you have both slots and right bios.

It feels appropriate to point out the widely reported issues when running Windows 98 with more than 512MB RAM.

Old news, there minimally 3 ways how to solve it - HimmeX and patched io.sys (1120 MB) for Safe mode, Burnmem (512 Mb) and Rloew paid patch (at least 2GB and he has also patch for use of rest of memory as RAMdisk).

So much difference in required power between DOS and Windows 98SE. Lots of later DOS games (such as Carmageddon, Tomb Raider etc) benefited from faster socket platforms such as S370 CPU's, but can still run adequately smooth on SS7 CPU's like the K6-2 / K6-3. With a Voodoo 1, even a vanilla Pentium 166Mhz can handle GlideDOS games without much slowdown.

Trying to get older DOS games to work properly with Pentium 2/3 chips (and in lots of cases faster K6-2 CPU's) can be difficult or impossible.

For DOS you should be aiming for a Pentium vanilla 200Mhz or a similar speed K6-2. Get a motherboard which allows you to change multipliers and FSB so you can downclock if needed. AGP is not important. For older DOS titles I would say a 486 is the only way to go, but with the price of these systems today, DOSBOX does a good enough job emulating and it's free.

For Windows 98SE I would definitely aim for a Pentium 3 to span the entire range of the OS. Something like a Geforce 3 or Geforce 2 GTS/Pro (or a Radeon 8500) should be fast enough to play even the latest 98SE period games at max details and 1024 resolution. CPU speed isn't very important but I'd stay north of 667Mhz. I think my 98SE rig has a P3 1Ghz Coppermine which is clocked at 733Mhz.

I have some QDI Socket 370 MB home, now im waiting on Tualatin CPU with Pentium III 866 it seems to working fine, there is CPU temperature monitoring, ATA 100 and other fancy stuff.. Geforce 6600 GT also booting with Matrox 450 i had to change AGP speed from 4x to 2x otherwise it not posted.. maybe because i havent last bios - now installed.

I also have some ALI - GB SS7 MB on the way, it would be 1 board thing, but from Phils videos, i thing that its significantly slower (up to 20%) for Win98 than MVP3 chipset. Now i would have to get some fast SS7 CPU..

For both platform i seems that i would need some SD RAM knowledge, because so far lots of SD-RAM are detected only as half size with new S370 MB and some SS7 SD-RAM MB which i have - it has max mem 384 MB and 2 lots, so at least some one 256 MB stick should work, when i use 512 MB + 128 MB its reporting 384, but i dunno if it safe use some stick as half of size.
With S370 - all one sided 256 MB stick are working as 256 but my 512 MB is also reported as 256 and so max is 768 MB but regarding of specs it should work up to 1.5 GB - 3x 512 MB. Problem is that i dunno how to recognize right sticks, what i have to try to get?

I have working Geforce 3 Ti 200 at home, it would be nice as etalon for testing.

I wonder does someone has the skill to modifie SS7 bioses, because i did quite research and only 1 GB MB has 6x 100 multiplier, all other Mbs have only 5.5x100 or lesser and you can get higher through FSB, but with that there are usually too high or more often heavy downclocked AGP to 40-50 Mhz, what is bad.

It would be nice add 6x (update: at least my Gigabyte MB, has this mode as undocumented, because its universal bios with newer revision of this MB),6.5 or even 7x option, or replace some existing setting for it, i mean that 2x- would behaved 6x.. i pure theory, it would need only find righ number and replace one number or another 😀

I looked on some video, Phil for example easily overclocked K6-III+ from 400 to 550, so i theory K6-2+ 500 /550 could do 600/650, maybe 700 too and some faster K6-III+ too.

For those who are interested, in this thread you can find test of Geforce 3 Ti 200 AGP with Core 2 Duo VIA880 system, its nice to know there are limits of this card in DOS, know that there are better dos cards, but there are zillion test in windows from other people..
Old+Modern videocards pure DOS benchmarking- which one is fastest?, need your numbers + analysis, 320x200 to 1600x1200!

Anything will do for pure dos, and it doesn't have to be fast.

Socket 7 / super 7 advantages:

+ CPU speed can be set up by jumpers. You can run a 400MHz K6-2 at 100Mhz if you wanted to. That + disabling L2 cache emulates a 486 pretty well.
+ Some boards / chipsets have funky undocumented jumper settings for setting the FSB. The VIA VP3 for example can be put in a "troubleshooting mode" where the CPU, RAM and Cache all run at ISA bus speed (8MHz). That makes it great for emulating old XT / AT machines witch are a pain in the ass to come by these days. I've managed to get a K6 running at 8, 20 and 40Mhz on a VP3 based board - that makes for a pretty nifty all in one retro machine.
+ They're fast enough to run some win95/98 games. A 500MHz K6-3 has no issues playing quake 2, Half-Life and other games from that period when paired with a decent 3d accelerator. A Voodoo 3 for example is great both as a 3d accelerator, but in DOS as well. No graphical glitches or tearing.
+ (subjective) almost all socket 7 / super 7 boards are AT format - having a DOS PC in an AT case with a turbo button and MHz display just feels right for me. AT format motherboards can also be used in ATX cases - this is a big plus since AT cases are hard to come by in some parts of the world, or are pretty expensive.
+ most Super Socket 7 motherboards have an AT and an ATX power connector. This allows you to use an ATX case + PSU, or an AT case (for that vintage look) + an ATX power supply

Disadvantages:
- Slower then slot 1 / socket 370 chips - especially FPU performance. BUT - very few dos games even make use of a FPU, and some games will not run properly on a very fast machine like a 1000Mhz P3.
- K6-III chips are pretty hard to come by
- some Super Socket 7 motherboards are pain in the ass to get running correctly. Cheaper boards are poorly built and are unstable. Driver support is hit and miss under win98.

Socket 370/Slot 1 Advantages:
+ Cheap
+ Fast
+ Easy to come by
+ Fits in a ATX Case
+ easy to get running
+ very stable platform

Disadvantages:
- Slot 1 / Socket 370 builds are in an "awkward valley" when it comes to usefulness - at least from my personal experience. For all 3d accelerated windows 95/98 games, a pentium 4 / Athlon XP will work just as well as a pentium 3 - even better for some more demanding games if you want to run them at 1600x1200 and force anti-aliasing and anisotopic filtering with around 60 FPS with no frame skipping (yes, I know I'm being picky and most people would be happy just having the games to run). I find that a P3 machine is just too slow for some games - some examples being Homeworld, Populous 3, Uprising 2 and Dungeon Keeper 2 - they will stutter a lot when there's a lot of action on screen even when using a 1400Mhz Tualatin @ the afformentioned resolution / detail levels.
- Some dos games are impossible to run on fast machines, and pentium II/III chips are multiplier locked - so running Ultima or Wing Commander will be difficult. Even commander keen 4 displays some odd behavior on machines faster then 500Mhz (stuttering).

I have a couple of pentium II/III machines - one is an ABIT BE6 based build. I initially ran a 400MHz P2 on it, but I later switched to a 333Mhz chip that can do 500Mhz stable. The other two are an Abit ST6 based 1400MHz tualatin with a chaintech 4600ti and a 1000Mhz P3 running on an Asus CUV4X-M with a Geforce 3 Ti200. The latter is a mATX build. The only game I found really benefits from running on one of these machines is Duke3D in VESA mode at 1024x768. I haven't used any of these machines in months due to the reason I mentioned above, plus they're rather mundane... slot 1 / socket 370 machines make me think of office computers , not home/gaming PCs.

My "daily driver" dos PC is a 400MHz K6-2 running at 66x6 on a Lucky Star VIA VP3 board. The video card is a Voodoo Banshee PCI, and the sound card I chose is a Guillemot Maxi Home Theater 64. I found some undocumented jumper settings (by trial and error) and I wired up some dip-switches to the back of the case witch let me run it at 8, 20, 133 and 400MHz. I use SetMul to disable L1 and L2 cache by running batch files at startup via a boot menu (fun fact - the PC will freeze when loading himem.sys unless I disable L2 cache - dunno why). This PC runs all of my favorite DOS games as well as some 2D windows games (C&C, Red alert, Starcraft, Age of Empires, etc). As for dos games, it runs even picky games perfectly provided I set it up for the game beforehand. Dyna blaster for example refuses to run correctly (completely ignores keyboard input) if the system is clocked higher the 20Mhz. Other games like Lode Runner, Paganitzu and Digger expect an 8MHz XT and will run way too fast at anything over 8MHz.

As for win98 era 3d games, I use the aforementioned GX400 Dell + a radeon 9700 and a Yamaha 724 with a 20" Samsung Syncmaster 214T.

I cant be sure about it, but regarding of SD RAM, to work as they are marked. I tried to find pattern, based on which mem are working for m, and it seems that winners, e, are these which are 1 sided and have only 8 chips, some one sided have 10 chips are not working with full capacity.

I just asked some eBay mem specialist seller, he not gave me pattern, but also offers 8 chip mem as something what would work for sure..

Based on information from this thread i made some comparision sheet, it could help someone, im using it primarily for myself because of my bad memory:
https://docs.zoho.com/sheet/published.do?rid= … b745668650d60b4

After almost 2 years with a p3 500 mhz as main retro rig, i just want move to K-6 side. Just like Socket 3 posted, a P3 manchine reduce DOS games compatibility and still not powerful enough for high resolution and high fps for win98 games.
I have a TU4vx(S370) and and VIA c3 for a setmul project, but the lack of ISA is not worth for use with DOS games.
Another project for me is building a 98/xp machine with celeron 420 ( lga 775). Its powerful like a non HT-pentium 4 with lower TDP (35 watts).
A K-6 (or poentium classic) and celeron (core 2duo) rigs would cover 1990- 2004 games. After or before this, just use a modern machine/DOSbox.