Intel486dx33 wrote:

Yes, I have some SS7 AMD K6-3+ 450mhz builds over clocked to 550mhz. If I enable turbo button I can cut the CPU speed in half to […]
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ruthan wrote:

Intel486dx33 wrote:

I think this 486 build is a good build because you can down clock the CPU to 386sx-25mhz for for playing old DOS games and play modern DOS games at 100 or 133mhz.

Phil done some i thing Pentium 200 zillions speeds test enable, disable caches and different clock speeds etc..

By the way K6-II+ at lowest speed without underclocking FSB - at 150 or 200 MHz and disable caches, that is comparable 386/486 system?

Yes, I have some SS7 AMD K6-3+ 450mhz builds over clocked to 550mhz.
If I enable turbo button I can cut the CPU speed in half to 333mhz.
If I use the Setmul utility in combination I can reduce the speed to 200mhz.
But that is not low enough to play CPU critical games like "Wing commander-1"
You need a 33mhz computer for that.
That is why I like the convenience and versatility of the 486 ( 66/100/133mhz. ) computer.

I am sure you know this already, but you can set the FSB to 66mhz and use setmul to get down to that speed. I think a K6 III+ at its slowest is equivalent to a 386DX25.

mothergoose729 wrote:

I am sure you know this already, but you can set the FSB to 66mhz and use setmul to get down to that speed. I think a K6 III+ at its slowest is equivalent to a 386DX25.

If there would be software way how to change FSB speed, it would be ok, if you need to fiddle with jumpers is annoying.. I saw some Zida Tomato MB with Jumperless bios, but they lack other feature.. If there would be way how to change FSB speed in DOs without reboot, it would be much better.

ruthan wrote:

mothergoose729 wrote:

I am sure you know this already, but you can set the FSB to 66mhz and use setmul to get down to that speed. I think a K6 III+ at its slowest is equivalent to a 386DX25.

If there would be software way how to change FSB speed, it would be ok, if you need to fiddle with jumpers is annoying.. I saw some Zida Tomato MB with Jumperless bios, but they lack other feature.. If there would be way how to change FSB speed in DOs without reboot, it would be much better.

If your board uses pins to control fsb you can connect a switch to them. It would still require you to power down though. I think the easiest way to do it is to run all dos software at 66 fsb, which maxes you out a 400mhz, and then switch to a 100mhz fsb when you want to game in windows.

Can some recommed some ide to Sata adapter which is working with SS7 MB i have some, its able to find 120gb ssd in bios, bit its freezing before bootloader is started. With 80gb ide hdd is mb booting fine, so size i guess is ok.

I prefer the my C3 in a Slot 1 over my SS7 K6+ for a few reasons:

1) Slot 1/C3 can change FSB in software, no need to mess with jumpers or DIPs.
2) C3 has a much greater range and gradual scaling than the K6, especially in the 486 range. My C3 can do 486DX2-66, the K6s end up being too fast or too slow to mimic this.
3) Slot cartridges mean I can easily (no heatsink/thermal paste reapplies) swap in other CPUs like a Nehemiah or even a Pentium III/Tualatin for even more flexibility. This is my favorite thing about the Slot 1.

1) Slot 1/C3 can change FSB in software, no need to mess with jumpers or DIPs.
2) C3 has a much greater range and gradual scaling than the K6, especially in the 486 range. My C3 can do 486DX2-66, the K6s end up being too fast or too slow to mimic this.
3) Slot cartridges mean I can easily (no heatsink/thermal paste reapplies) swap in other CPUs like a Nehemiah or even a Pentium III/Tualatin for even more flexibility. This is my favorite thing about the Slot 1.[/quote]
Its funny DIP switches (still much better than Jumpers..) are problem, but swap whole CPU is not.. But ok. What is FSB range (min-max) for K6-II doesnt have FSB change, but has Multiplier change SW possiblity.. if is not possible change multiplier for C3 - K6-2 seems to be better, otherwise at least Zida Tomato, have full Bios SW multiplier and bit of FSB manipulation too.

ruthan wrote:

Its funny DIP switches (still much better than Jumpers..) are problem, but swap whole CPU is not.. But ok.

Your point would be valid if the CPU swap was necessary to match capabilities. It is not. With just the VIA C3 in there it possible to do everything the K6 can do and more -- from software.

What is FSB range (min-max) for K6-II doesnt have FSB change, but has Multiplier change SW possiblity.. if is not possible change multiplier for C3 - K6-2 seems to be better, otherwise at least Zida Tomato, have full Bios SW multiplier and bit of FSB manipulation too.

It is possible to change the multiplier of the C3 from software AND you get significantly more multiplier options than the K6. The Ezra-T has 27 different multipliers ranging from 3x to 27x. I then have EIGHT different FSB options that can be selected from software 50, 66, 75, 82, 100, 103, 113 and 133 and in addition to the standard L1/L2 cache disabling you can also toggle I-Cache and Branch Prediction to further tweak speed settings.

infiniteclouds wrote:

Your point would be valid if the CPU swap was necessary to match capabilities. It is not. With just the VIA C3 in there it possi […]
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ruthan wrote:

Its funny DIP switches (still much better than Jumpers..) are problem, but swap whole CPU is not.. But ok.

Your point would be valid if the CPU swap was necessary to match capabilities. It is not. With just the VIA C3 in there it possible to do everything the K6 can do and more -- from software.

What is FSB range (min-max) for K6-II doesnt have FSB change, but has Multiplier change SW possiblity.. if is not possible change multiplier for C3 - K6-2 seems to be better, otherwise at least Zida Tomato, have full Bios SW multiplier and bit of FSB manipulation too.

It is possible to change the multiplier of the C3 from software AND you get significantly more multiplier options than the K6. The Ezra-T has 27 different multipliers ranging from 3x to 27x. I then have EIGHT different FSB options that can be selected from software 50, 66, 75, 82, 100, 103, 113 and 133 and in addition to the standard L1/L2 cache disabling you can also toggle I-Cache and Branch Prediction to further tweak speed settings.

What is the slowest speed of the Ezra-t comparable too?

mothergoose729 wrote:

What is the slowest speed of the Ezra-t comparable too?

A 386DX25/33, probably. The C3 Nehemiah can go lower (and much higher), bottoming out with 3.36 SpeedSys, 4.2 3DBench and PCPBench of 1.1FPS... probably 286 territory? However, the Nehemiah suffers from the same problem the K6 -- you can't get those faster 486 (DX2/66) speeds. If you have to use a Socket 7 I honestly prefer a Pentium MMX because it can at least be tweaked to that DX2 speed.

infiniteclouds wrote:

mothergoose729 wrote:

What is the slowest speed of the Ezra-t comparable too?

A 386DX25/33, probably. The C3 Nehemiah can go lower (and much higher), bottoming out with 3.36 SpeedSys, 4.2 3DBench and PCPBench of 1.1FPS... probably 286 territory? However, the Nehemiah suffers from the same problem the K6 -- you can't get those faster 486 (DX2/66) speeds. If you have to use a Socket 7 I honestly prefer a Pentium MMX because it can at least be tweaked to that DX2 speed.

I found this in an old vogons thread. With a 50mhz FSB I think sub 9 speedsys is possible, which puts it right around a 386DX20.

download/file.php?id=28201&mode=view

What does the speed curve of the Nehemiah look like?

I was just about to buy a new socket 7 board, but now I am really thinking about an ezra-t instead. Socket 370 boards are much cheaper and easier to work with, and it is not hard at all to find some with a couple of ISA slots. Can a socket 370 board be made to run at a 50mhz FSB with setmul? Slot 1 is an option too, but you would need a slotkey adapter and a board that is capable of a lower voltage... and those are quite expensive.

mothergoose729 wrote:

I found this in an old vogons thread. With a 50mhz FSB I think sub 9 speedsys is possible, which puts it right around a 386DX20. […]
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I found this in an old vogons thread. With a 50mhz FSB I think sub 9 speedsys is possible, which puts it right around a 386DX20.

download/file.php?id=28201&mode=view

What does the speed curve of the Nehemiah look like?

I was just about to buy a new socket 7 board, but now I am really thinking about an ezra-t instead. Socket 370 boards are much cheaper and easier to work with, and it is not hard at all to find some with a couple of ISA slots. Can a socket 370 board be made to run at a 50mhz FSB with setmul? Slot 1 is an option too, but you would need a slotkey adapter and a board that is capable of a lower voltage... and those are quite expensive.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uKhCI … t#gid=577583037

I did over 700 Benchmarks of my Ezra-866 -- this was before I obtained an Ezra-T. My lowest SpeedSys was 7.02. It's important to note that SpeedSys scores don't give you nearly a 1:1 performance ratio of the equivalent CPU. Personally, I go by my Doom FPS benchmarks. The Nehemiah scaling isn't as good for the reasons I mentioned but it is still better than a K6.. it can hit pretty much all the same points but can also go slower and faster.

I can't speak at all on S370 boards and I would be surprised to find one with such a low FSB option. The motherboard I'm using (6BXC) is as much as integral part of the build as the Ezra-T.

infiniteclouds wrote:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uKhCI … t#gid=577583037 […]
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mothergoose729 wrote:

I found this in an old vogons thread. With a 50mhz FSB I think sub 9 speedsys is possible, which puts it right around a 386DX20. […]
Show full quote

I found this in an old vogons thread. With a 50mhz FSB I think sub 9 speedsys is possible, which puts it right around a 386DX20.

download/file.php?id=28201&mode=view

What does the speed curve of the Nehemiah look like?

I was just about to buy a new socket 7 board, but now I am really thinking about an ezra-t instead. Socket 370 boards are much cheaper and easier to work with, and it is not hard at all to find some with a couple of ISA slots. Can a socket 370 board be made to run at a 50mhz FSB with setmul? Slot 1 is an option too, but you would need a slotkey adapter and a board that is capable of a lower voltage... and those are quite expensive.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uKhCI … t#gid=577583037

I did over 700 Benchmarks of my Ezra-866 -- this was before I obtained an Ezra-T. My lowest SpeedSys was 7.02. It's important to note that SpeedSys scores don't give you nearly a 1:1 performance ratio of the equivalent CPU. Personally, I go by my Doom FPS benchmarks. The Nehemiah scaling isn't as good for the reasons I mentioned but it is still better than a K6.. it can hit pretty much all the same points but can also go slower and faster.

I can't speak at all on S370 boards and I would be surprised to find one with such a low FSB option. The motherboard I'm using (6BXC) is as much as integral part of the build as the Ezra-T.

That's incredible!

Do you have a recommendation for slotket adapters? The only one on ebay is this one, which bottoms out at 2.0v

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Slotket-Socket-370-t … w0AAOSwXdlckyj6

Actually, there are STILL MS6905 slotkets readily available from the same German seller I purchased from. I don't want to post the Ebay link because I believe it's frowned upon but you can easily find it by searching MS6905. I use it for my VIA C3s and MODDED Tualatin -- although the my 1.4-s Tualatin can't do 133FSB stable on this board with that slotket -- 100FSB is no problem though, and 133FSB works fine for the C3s.

infiniteclouds wrote:

Actually, there are STILL MS6905 slotkets readily available from the same German seller I purchased from. I don't want to post the Ebay link because I believe it's frowned upon but you can easily find it by searching MS6905. I use it for my VIA C3s and MODDED Tualatin -- although the my 1.4-s Tualatin can't do 133FSB stable on this board with that slotket -- 100FSB is no problem though, and 133FSB works fine for the C3s.

You are amazing sir. Thank you for your help.

Regarding motherboards, Indeed, you need a clockgen compatible with the SMB tool to get the most out of a C3 build.

^Indeed. I think there are a few -- but the only one I'm familiar with is the aforementioned 6BXC Gigabyte board -- with a Rev 2.0 if you're going to use AGP cards of a certain voltage, like a Voodoo 3.

infiniteclouds wrote:

^Indeed. I think there are a few -- but the only one I'm familiar with is the aforementioned 6BXC Gigabyte board -- with a Rev 2.0 if you're going to use AGP cards of a certain voltage, like a Voodoo 3.

I am actually looking at that board. Is there a specific revisions of the GA-6BXC that works?

They should all work with the SMB tool to change FSB in software but you should try to get a Rev 2.0 for the fixes, specifically the enhanced AGP slot compatibility.

infiniteclouds wrote:

They should all work with the SMB tool to change FSB in software but you should try to get a Rev 2.0 for the fixes, specifically the enhanced AGP slot compatibility.

Where on your board does it indicate the revision?

It's on one of the corners of the board, and also inbetween the ISA slots.