bobsmith wrote on 2024-03-21, 13:06:

I've noticed the Amiga fascination is most common in Western Europeans. Why was the Amiga not popular in the US or other countries? Some parts of the Amiga culture that started there and evolved beyond it like trackers got pretty popular here at least in terms of nerd crowds, but I've never heard or read of the Amiga being popular in the US.

This is a more involved question than you likely realize, but the answer can be more or less summed up this way:

Different leadership between commodore usa, and commodore europe.

More specifically (but not completely the whole story, again, 'it's complicated'), commodore USA wanted to sell the Amiga line as high end graphics workstations to business customers, viewing the home computer market to be saturated; this would not be 'entirely' incorrect, given that a great many offerings existed in that market, and it was unsafe as a corporate investment strategy.

Meanwhile in Europe, the EU kids were being sold Amigas as high powered home computers, with extensive MIDI, Stereo sound mixing, videosync generation, lots of colors, and many other 'way ahead of their time' perks, with 'Games!' Being a hot selling point, coupled with europe's 'home videogame coding boom'.

But the short end of the stick, is that Amiga did not take off in the consumer space for the same reason Sun Workstations didn't.

They were not marketed to home users, and were instead marketed to business users for AV applications.

'home videogame coding boom'

Ok, perhaps I shouldn't reply to every post here, but this one is something I can relate to.
Here in Europe, quite a few coders had a home computer background and applied things learned to their work in video game industry.

Consoles like the Segas and Nintendos of the time were being based on Z80, 6502 and m68k systems.
Same goes for the PSG and FM chips. That's why these "euro games" on the NES had such a different sound.

The musician working on the Smurfs game, for example, did a very good job.
The title didn't sound like typical NES game, as found in the states.

There was no or less MIDI being involved in composing (MIDI was being popular in the US, I heard),
the PSG sound chips tunes were being composed with a tracker software, rather.

Similarily, the Japanese were very good at making FM sound, I believe.
If they had gotten their hands on our western AdLib Music Synthesizer Card (OPL2), it would have sounded stellar.

Last, but not least, there's something that I think is being forgotten.
Some coders from the home computer era often say that the 80s were the golden age and that the 90s ended it.

I think that's not entirely true. Bed room programmers and one-man companies continued to exist in the 90s.
They wrote shareware titles, which got their way on CD-ROMs, online services and BBSes.

Especially on DOS/Windows 3, there was a lot going on, still.
You could register software for a little fee and in return get the full software package (manual, disks, goodies) either by that small company or by the author himself.

But of course, PC or WinTel was the enemey of the time, so it doesn't count, right ? 😉
That's at least how it feels, when generation C64 glorifies the 80s.

-
Maybe that's also the reason as to why the A2286 bridgeboard wasn't feature-complete, maybe?
On one hand, Commodore tried to make the Amiga shine, while simultanously it tried to sell PC comaptibles.

That's kind of shizophrenic or contradictional, I think.
Because, many of the Commodore PCs had an "AGA" graphics card, which was Hercules, CGA and Plantronics compatible.
The own bridgeboard series, however, didn't have these features.

Was this on done on purpose or just because of incompetence. As often being told, Commodore had lost most of its engineers.
But building a bridgeboard isn't that complicated. About any IT company could have done that.

Oh yes, the western soundcard, made with a Japanese Yamaha chip in Singapore.

Jo did you write this when half asleep or are you getting AI to write your posts again?

Returning to the 'Games!' Angle...

The massive market implosion of Atari (after an infamously rushed 2600 game that was waay over-invested caused an investor speculation panic, by being an absolute bomb) meant that the US market was 'Averse' to selling 'Game Systems'.

This persisted for quite some time, and stayed that way until investors were placated by Nintendo, which proudly proclaimed their CIC/NES10 lockout chip would prevent a massive release of low quality games from undermining consumer expectations, and would help assure a marketable and high quality platform and experience. (Which is what the 'Nintendo Seal of Approval' quality sticker was all about.)

This is about the same time window in which Commodore USA and Texas Instruments were trying to pricewar themselves into extinction, (approx 1985 ish) and 'boxy, "big business" machines' tried STUDIOUSLY to distance themselves from being 'toys'.

This is among the reasons Commodore USA did not market Amiga like its EU counterpart did ('games' being toxic to VC, locked in a costly pricewar with a rival for the lower-cost home PC market with TI, IBM's XT was 'meant for grown up business stuff!', etc.)

Trying to sell Amiga in a different market segment (video editing/publishing) makes a lot more sense, given this environment.

Those problems did not exist in the EU market.

Consumers saw a very good, feature-rich home PC, the EU matket had a flowering cottage game industry (kids got computers for the first time, realized they could make stuff 'just as good, or better!' Than commercial stuff from the US, AND DID SO) and the kids got a lot of bang for that admittedly pricy buck.

BitWrangler wrote on 2024-03-22, 13:39:

Oh yes, the western soundcard, made with a Japanese Yamaha chip in Singapore.

Jo did you write this when half asleep or are you getting AI to write your posts again?

that person writes the wildest revisionist history takes

^*Ahem* Where I live, to claim that someone is writing “revisionist history” is not exactly a small accusation.
Sources or concrete examples for this assumption are actually the least that should be mentioned.
If it is merely a personal opinion, it has to be marked as such. No offense, though. :)

Edit: Just checked. There are two terms to this matter, it seems.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_revisionism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_negationism

The first one says "In historiography, historical revisionism is the reinterpretation of a historical account",
while the second one is about "Historical negationism,[2][3] also called historical denialism, is falsification[4][5] or distortion of the historical record.
It should not be conflated with historical revisionism, a broader term that extends to newly evidenced, fairly reasoned academic reinterpretations of history [..]"

I can agree on the first one, ie, trying to interprete things by examining existing evidences and sources (magazines, photos etc).
That's what most of us do, I suppose, if we dig through computing history or try share our own memories of nerd/geek culture.
Especially the BBS scene is/was interesting I think. I always wondered how things were in other countries around the globe at the time.

Edit: That being said, the topic as such is spot on! Kudos. AIs and the source materials they learn from are an challenge to society.
Especially in conjunction with meme culture, political correctness and such things. AIs don't 'understand' it and thus make false assumptions easily.
These things make preserving historical materials, such as digital media/physical media even more important these days.

BitWrangler wrote on 2024-03-22, 13:39:

Oh yes, the western soundcard, made with a Japanese Yamaha chip in Singapore.

Jo did you write this when half asleep or are you getting AI to write your posts again?

Yes and no. :D

I meant to say that FM sound technology was being very successful in Japan.
Whereas in Europe/US/Australia etc. most home computers had PSGs (C64's SID, Apple II Mocking Board etc) or simple PC speakers (early Sharp MZ, Commodore PET).
FM took a while to find its way over here. The Sega Genesis/MegaDrive was a notable console to feature FM; the console was derived from arcade hardware (Sega System 16)

There had been very capable composers In Japan that created music that didn't sound like a typical AdLib tune
or a random song played back trough the MIDI-based IBM Music Feature card:
Sierra On-Line, an once famous US-based pioneer in western game development wasn't exactly great at composing songs for FM hardware.
The songs didn't sound nearly as good as they did on PSG (Tandy 3-voice) or Roland's LA Synthesizers.

Or let's take consoles. I also recall that later models of the Japanese Master System had an FM chip, while the international release had the basic PSG only.
Outrun and Phantasy Star 1 for the Sega Master System supported the FM chip, if it was being installed / retro-fitted to a foreign console.

https://segaretro.org/FM_Sound_Unit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tiMrybmQaE

Other Japanese platforms like the Sharp X68000 (YM2151), FM-7 (YM2203), PC-98 (YM2608, YMF288 etc), PC-88 (YM2203) had adopted FM sound chips during mid-late 80s.
Some platforms had started out with an AY-3-8910 (PSG), as well. MSX has supported FM (OPLL, OPL4) as well, but that was a bit later, I think.

Edit: About the example with the NES and that Infogrames title (Smurfs)..
The composer apparently was Alberto Jose Gonzales, which wasn't an unknown figure at the time.
He composed a few other fine musical titles, too.

Here's the Smurfs OST, to give an idea what I meant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pDlDVctPRo
It doesn't sound like your typical US production, I think.

Edit: About the term "western xyz" - it's not my creation. To what I read online, from Japanese point of view everything from Europe/USA/Australia/UK etc. is "western".
To my understanding there's no differentiation being made, really. To them, these nations/places are all same, pretty much.
Probably because the similarities in culture and language, not sure. Speaking under correction.

Edit: "Oh yes, the western soundcard, made with a Japanese Yamaha chip in Singapore."

This night, I had to think about this again for some reason. Something didn't feel right..
Singapore - that was home of Creative Labs, right?
To what I know it originally created the Creative Music System (C/MS) aka Game Blaster based on 2x SAA1099 PSGs. The Sound Blaster appeared later on.
In 1987, the Creative Music System was the rival to Ad Lib Music Synthesizer Card (ALMMC ALMSC).
Ad Lib Inc. by contrast was from Canada (or "Canadia" as some may prefer).

wierd_w wrote on 2024-03-22, 15:22:

Returning to the 'Games!' Angle... […]
Show full quote

Returning to the 'Games!' Angle...

The massive market implosion of Atari (after an infamously rushed 2600 game that was waay over-invested caused an investor speculation panic, by being an absolute bomb) meant that the US market was 'Averse' to selling 'Game Systems'.

This persisted for quite some time, and stayed that way until investors were placated by Nintendo, which proudly proclaimed their CIC/NES10 lockout chip would prevent a massive release of low quality games from undermining consumer expectations, and would help assure a marketable and high quality platform and experience. (Which is what the 'Nintendo Seal of Approval' quality sticker was all about.)

This is about the same time window in which Commodore USA and Texas Instruments were trying to pricewar themselves into extinction, (approx 1985 ish) and 'boxy, "big business" machines' tried STUDIOUSLY to distance themselves from being 'toys'.

This is among the reasons Commodore USA did not market Amiga like its EU counterpart did ('games' being toxic to VC, locked in a costly pricewar with a rival for the lower-cost home PC market with TI, IBM's XT was 'meant for grown up business stuff!', etc.)

Trying to sell Amiga in a different market segment (video editing/publishing) makes a lot more sense, given this environment.

Those problems did not exist in the EU market.

Consumers saw a very good, feature-rich home PC, the EU matket had a flowering cottage game industry (kids got computers for the first time, realized they could make stuff 'just as good, or better!' Than commercial stuff from the US, AND DID SO) and the kids got a lot of bang for that admittedly pricy buck.

I think that might sum it up pretty well.

BitWrangler also said that the "Amiga peaked earlier in the US, prior to mass web use and AGA", which I think fits the picture.
In older US media from before ~1990, the Amiga still seems to be mentioned, at some point.
For example, not long ago I spotted an A1000 in an rerun of an episode of "Miami Vice", an 80s show.
The Amiga was sitting on a desktop, displaying the blue/white workbench. The episode was from, I don't know, 1985/86?

Meanwhile here in Europe ('87+), the A500 was often being mentioned in press and on TV.
It was the equivalent to the C64 in terms of popularity, I suppose.

I guess that's also why parents were willing to buy their kids an pricey Amiga 500.
Commodore as a company must have felt like part of the family already (like AEG, Volkswagen, Siemens or Bosch etc in case of Germany).
Probably because parents or family members had gotten accustomed to a PET, VC20 or C64 years before already.

But of course, that bed room computer was nothing someone could be using in office.
Not because of technical reasons, but because of saving someones face.
It wasn't a serious piece of office equipment, like the Amiga A1000 or later on, the A2000 was.

Using it in an office of a reputable company would be the computer equivalent
to an employee wearing an open Hawaiian shirt, a hairy chest, shorts and sandals.
That simply wasn't acceptable. Not in the prudish office structures of the 80s.

And that was the dilemma really, I'm afraid. Or one of it, I suppose.
The A500 was widely available and cheap, but it had the image (reputation) of a toy computer.
Which is kind of sad, because A500/A2000 were siblings on an electric level. They had shared same Workbench disk set, for example.

And the A1000 was oudated/nolonger available by late 80s, leaving the expensive A2000 to be the only remaining alternative.
Not that it was bad somehow, it even had a 32-Bit processor slot that could be used to get rid of several bottle necks (quick memory, 68020 or 68030 CPU and FPUs).

If there had been a cost-reduced A500 motherboard in an A1000 chassis.. Who knows?
It perhaps would have sold as an user-friendly Turbo XT alternative, still.
The Commodore 128D had gotten the same chassis, after all and it wasn't bad.

And OCS and ECS already had supported higher resolution modes than what AGA had to offer later on.
On machines running in PAL mode, at least.

"Perhaps the most well known graphics mode of the Original Chip Set was the HAM mode,
which enabled the display of up to 4096 colours at once on the screen in up to 368 x 482 (NTSC) or 368 x 580 (PAL) resolution.
This screen mode is also known as HAM6, to differentiate it from the HAM8 mode of the AGA Machines. The way HAM6 modes work is somewhat complex."
Source: https://theamigamuseum.com/the-hardware/the-a … -graphic-modes/

On desktop (non-HAM modes) the situation was similiar:

"HiRes
640×200 @ 60Hz (NTSC)
640×256 @ 50Hz (PAL)
12 bit color depth (4096 colors)
up to 16 colors

HiRes Laced
640×400 @ 60Hz (NTSC)
640×512 @ 50Hz (PAL)
12 bit color depth (4096 colors)
up to 16 colors"

Sources: https://amiga.lychesis.net/articles/ScreenModes.html

On a 100Hz TV or green monitor with afterglow, the flickering was bearable, I suppose.
If a flicker-fixer circuit was being available, even more so.
By mid-late 80s, multisync monitors became more common place in general, I believe.

So either way, it was still better than an Turbo XT with CGA graphics (640x200 mono vs 640x256 16 col).
Rivaling Hercules graphics was still a challenge for the Amiga, though. Hercules even had rivaled VGA for while, still.
The many grayscales (mono screen, via RCA output) might have helped a bit to smoothen the display, however.

Anyway, the Amiga also was on decline here in Europe after 1990s, I think.
(Edit: Or rather, Western Europe. Can't speak for whole Europe, of course. That's why I'm limiting myself to my place mostly here.)
But not as a games computer (there were lots of new games being released still; hardware upgrades, too!), but as an application platform.

In the 1980s, the Amiga was still seen as a general purpose computer, just like the Atari ST (-> Calamus and DTP).
There were serious people with serious hobbies/interests who wrote applications for the platform - as if it was an Atari ST, IBM PC or Mac.
Things not related to fun, games or entertainment. Okay, art and music maybe, yes, though. Everyone loved fractals, too! 😁

But somewhen shortly after 1990s this had ended or changed. Not sure how to put it into words.. Edit: Or should I've said "fell out of fashion", rather?
If we look at books about astronomy, telecommunications (fax software, terminal programs, packet radio etc) or DTP, CAM/CAD programs, I mean.
All those seemingly "boring" programs or productivity software (databases, networking software, accounting sofware etc) went away on Amiga.

There were less and less books that did cover the Amiga as a tool.
Things like electronic construction sets or robot arms previously had supported computer interfaces on Apple II, C64/128, PC, Mac, Amiga etc.
After 1990, merely the IBM PC and to a degree, the Macintosh saw continued support in this category.

But on Amiga? Most of these things never had seen Kick/Workbench 2.0 or higher.
From my point of view, the golden age for applications was Amiga OS 1.x (Kick/WB 1.x) thus.

Personally, I noticed this decline with a book called "Highlight Amiga", which was a fine raytracing book.
The first book from about ~1990 still had covered the Amiga, while subsequent releases were moving to PC.
First on DOS w/ (S)VGA graphics, then on Windows 3.x and finally Windows NT.
The author(s) kept track with technological development of the time, I think.

PS: There's also an 80s episode about the A1000 running Deluxe Paint..
Commodore Amiga 1000 ZDF Computer Corner Electronic Arts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6ahBmAygOE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0nkPLVBYVg

Some more games, C64 and A1000 (also has footage of GEOS 1.2):
Computerzeit 1986 Commodore 64 / Amiga Spiele Teil II
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_glByI9xQ8A

Edit: Sorry for the long posting. It's night time in my place and these things got me thinking.
I hope that's okay. I didn't mean to alter history, or something. These are just some thoughts, after all. 😅

Edit: Update. Searched the web and found some more information.

[..] The C64 was still selling like crazy in 1990, while the A500 had dropped below the 1000 DM/350 UKP mark by then. Between these two, there was simply no space for another machine. The C128 had been discontinued for that very reason, despite selling better than the A500.

Introducing another machine between these two would have just hurt sales of the existing two options. It would have made an A500 look to expensive or the C64 to slow. Not to mention that a third incompatible platform would have been extremely stupid, especially as late as 1990.[..]

Source: https://forum.amiga.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=2 … 02556#msg702556

That's an interesting bit of information. Haven't looked at it this way.
So Commodore wasn't being able to produce another computer for serious users?

Edit: I've just seen statistical numbers of Amiga sales in my home country (source).
According to it, the A500 sold over 1 mio. times, the A1000+2000 together about 150 000 times and the new models altogether (A500+, A600, A1200 and so on) about 400 000 times.

That means that the majority of Amigas were the 80s models with Kick/WB 1.3 and the inability to run modern software out of box.
The "real" ones, in short. There were two groups, A1000 and A500/A2000 (and variants A1500/2500 etc).

Which is (was) very sad, I think. Throwing some sort of Kick 2.0 start-up disk into the cardboard box would have helped maybe.
Because newer Amigas after A1000 could still have booted Kickstart from floppy like a booter game, at cost of RAM (no WOM available like in A1000 though).

That being said, it’s still strange that no other ideas came to mind at the time.
I still think that a modified A500 (or A600) mainboard in AT or Baby AT form factor would have been worth a try.

It would have attracted same users that would went for a compact 286-12/286-16 or 386DX-40 motherboard of the time.
The hole in the chassis for PC DIN keyboard was large enough for an A2000 keyboard connector, too.

The rest of the A500 expansions ports could have fitted on normal slot brackets, using headers on motherboard and brackets for the ports could have reduced production costs, maybe.

I mean, the mechanical connectors were already very PC-like.
Adding a basic scan-doubler circuit on the motherboard would have allowed using cheap VGA monitors of the time.

But that's just me. I'm looking it at it from point if a PC user of the time.

bobsmith wrote on 2024-03-21, 13:06:

I've noticed the Amiga fascination is most common in Western Europeans. Why was the Amiga not popular in the US or other countries?

Sorry for the little necro, but another reason came to mind.

According to some voices, the home computers in W. Europe were more widespread than consoles.

So while, say, the Atari 2600 and the NES were very common in US households they weren't in W. Europe so much.
Here, the C64 and Amiga (or Atari ST) were more common to be found.
- In the 1980s, at least, perhaps.

Cost also was a reason, I suppose.
People over here (parents especially) saw no point in paying for games/software, which was immaterial to them.:
A game cartridge was more expensive than a pack of blank music cassettes or blank floppies, by their logic.

But I'm speaking under correction here, I get contradictional information from the internet.
Some fewer voices from Europe say that they knew the NES from 1987 onwards already or even had owned one by late 80s.

So I can't really judge, I started playing in the 90s rather. 🤷‍♂️
And in the early 90s, at least, the NES was very well known in Germany and other European countries.
The 16-Bit consoles, as well. Even the 8-Bit Master System was kind of succesful here.

My friends at the time knew Standard PCs and game consoles, but no C64 anymore.
Amiga was still "a thing", though. They knew the name, that it was a computery thing.
But perhaps that was just my small circle of friends or a generational thing.

Edit: I'm roughly thinking of a '93-'94 time frame, I think.
It's been so long ago. I can't be more accurate here, I'm afraid. 😅

Edit: Long story short, I meant to say that in W. Europe the home computers didn't just compete with IBM PCs, but also consoles.
To many, owning a home computer made more sense than a closedplatform, which a console represented.

Though strictly speaking, Amiga/Atari ST/Mac were more PC than home computer.
It's just that many consider Amiga and Atari to be home computers.
Probably thanks to the wedge design of the popular entry models.

Jo22 wrote on 2025-05-23, 15:39:

Sorry for the little necro, but another reason came to mind. […]
Show full quote

bobsmith wrote on 2024-03-21, 13:06:

I've noticed the Amiga fascination is most common in Western Europeans. Why was the Amiga not popular in the US or other countries?

Sorry for the little necro, but another reason came to mind.

According to some voices, the home computers in W. Europe were more widespread than consoles.

So while, say, the Atari 2600 and the NES were very common in US households they weren't in W. Europe so much.
Here, the C64 and Amiga (or Atari ST) were more common to be found.
- In the 1980s, at least, perhaps.

Cost also was a reason, I suppose.
People over here (parents especially) saw no point in paying for games/software, which was immaterial to them.:
A game cartridge was more expensive than a pack of blank music cassettes or blank floppies, by their logic.

But I'm speaking under correction here, I get contradictional information from the internet.
Some fewer voices from Europe say that they knew the NES from 1987 onwards already or even had owned one by late 80s.

So I can't really judge, I started playing in the 90s rather. 🤷‍♂️
And in the early 90s, at least, the NES was very well known in Germany and other European countries.
The 16-Bit consoles, as well. Even the 8-Bit Master System was kind of succesful here.

My friends at the time knew Standard PCs and game consoles, but no C64 anymore.
Amiga was still "a thing", though. They knew the name, that it was a computery thing.
But perhaps that was just my small circle of friends or a generational thing.

Edit: I'm roughly thinking of a '93-'94 time frame, I think.
It's been so long ago. I can't be more accurate here, I'm afraid. 😅

Edit: Long story short, I meant to say that in W. Europe the home computers didn't just compete with IBM PCs, but also consoles.
To many, owning a home computer made more sense than a closedplatform, which a console represented.

Though strictly speaking, Amiga/Atari ST/Mac were more PC than home computer.
It's just that many consider Amiga and Atari to be home computers.
Probably thanks to the wedge design of the popular entry models.

It is absolutely a fact that NA market was different from Europe and it affected how well Amiga and other home computers succeeded in european countries in 1980s and early 90s. In NA consoles were used much more as game machines compared to Europe and computer market in general moved a lot more towards more expensive ”serious” machines such as PCs and Macintoshes very early on. Cheaper Amigas and Atari STs fit poorly to this market.

There is also one factor that affected especially Commodore. The sales and marketing teams especially in UK and West-Germany actually knew how to do their job and were top notch people. They managed to make low end Amigas an attractive proposition in Europe by creating bundles, marketing systems well and creating a successful dealer network. Up to the end of Commodore, european functions of the company managed to actually make money instead of burning it. They constantly navigated themselves in the mess that Commodore’s management kept creating and did it extremely well.

Continuing the theme of the last couple of posts - it can definitely be said that home micro computers were much more prevalent than consoles in Europe in the 1980s. They were often more affordable and had better deals and bundles as mentioned above. Also, the cost of games was a major factor, as cartridge-based games were so much more expensive to the point where you could probably buy multiple C64 or Amiga games for the same price as 1 cartridge game.

In the UK, by the end of the 80s the Commodore 64, ZX Spectrum & Amstrad CPC 464 ruled the 8-bit gaming scene, with the Sega Master System console coming in close behind. The NES did poorly here too just like in most of Europe, but not quite as badly as consoles like the Atari 7800 for example, which bombed everywhere.

When it came to the 16-bit+ gaming era, I think the tide had turned a little towards consoles here too. I remember all of my friends at school had a console by 1993/1994, either a Mega Drive or SNES and I knew none that had an Amiga or Atari ST as their main gaming machine. The 16-bit era certainly saw much stiffer competition in terms of Consoles VS Computers.

Bringing it back around to the PC during this period, PCs really were a terrible choice for games in the 1980s. They were expensive, seen as more "serious" computers and lacked the gaming hardware that the cheaper micro computers had with their custom chipsets. In terms of gaming, both hardware & software-wise, the PC didn't really start to become competitive until the 1990s, by which point the Amiga was already dead or dying due to Commodore's failings.

By the time the Sony PlayStation came out, the market had pretty much settled worldwide into games consoles being dominant, with PC gaming being rather niche - which it arguably still is due to the high costs involved.

Hi again, thank you very much for your replies guys!
I suppose this thread has now reached it's end, pretty much, but I'd like add a link to one further video, still.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NMaJu0IcsU

It's a '92 documentary (or news report) from Switzerland, one of our neighbor countries.
It's a timecapsule about video games only (no computer applications).
Still, that world described is something I can relate to and remember from my own childhood/youth, though.
The Super Nintendo, Gameboy, Sega, with the Amiga still being "around" sort of..

What's sadly missing in the video is the venerable NES, though.
Where I live, NES/SMS games were still sold new until 1995/1996 or so, next to 16-Bit titles.
Though I must admit that I can't remember that my friends had 8-Bit systems anymore, except for handhelds.
- They played SMB 1/2/3 on SNES collection, whereas I had the old NES versions on cassettes.

Being slightly older than them (*ahem*), I still had a home computer next to a PC (a vintage Sharp MZ-731, next to a 286 PC).
And a Super NES (new) and a second hand NES (used)..

Something I’ve never really understood about the Eurozone during the Genesis/Megadrive era was.

How long?

It seems like the Megadrive just released then was steamrolled by the PlayStation a year later.

Other Eurozone folks said they skipped the Saturn and everyone had a PlayStation but others say they held onto the Master System until very late and bought a cheap Cyrix PC.

Was the Megadrive not very popular there or skipped?
Or was there an equal distribution of master system, megadrive and PlayStation all supported at the same time?

rmay635703 wrote on 2025-06-03, 18:27:

Something I’ve never really understood about the Eurozone during the Genesis/Megadrive era was. […]
Show full quote

Something I’ve never really understood about the Eurozone during the Genesis/Megadrive era was.

How long?

It seems like the Megadrive just released then was steamrolled by the PlayStation a year later.

Other Eurozone folks said they skipped the Saturn and everyone had a PlayStation but others say they held onto the Master System until very late and bought a cheap Cyrix PC.

Was the Megadrive not very popular there or skipped?
Or was there an equal distribution of master system, megadrive and PlayStation all supported at the same time?

Those consoles all coexisted for some time in the UK, with new games being released, so I imagine it was rather similar generally across the Eurozone.

A local cable TV service here was still running the Sega Channel for the Mega Drive until 1998, that's 3 years after the PS1 & Saturn released.

Even crazier to think back, the year the PlayStation came out you could still walk into a shop and buy a Commodore 64 gaming magazine complete with game cassette with new games and demos.

rmay635703 wrote on 2025-06-03, 18:27:

Something I’ve never really understood about the Eurozone during the Genesis/Megadrive era was. […]
Show full quote

Something I’ve never really understood about the Eurozone during the Genesis/Megadrive era was.

How long?

It seems like the Megadrive just released then was steamrolled by the PlayStation a year later.

Other Eurozone folks said they skipped the Saturn and everyone had a PlayStation but others say they held onto the Master System until very late and bought a cheap Cyrix PC.

Was the Megadrive not very popular there or skipped?
Or was there an equal distribution of master system, megadrive and PlayStation all supported at the same time?

I got my MegaDrive late 1991 (Sonic Hedgehog pack), playstation didn't come out until 95 so there was a good 4 years inbetween. Also MegaCD (Sega CD) and 32x were release before the playstation, although the 32x didn't do so well (Sega US/Sega Japan arguments!). The Amiga was still popular, which I got in '92 (A500+). The famous Worms only came out in (late) 1995 also, so Amiga was still popular then. I even have a CU Amiga mag from late 1996 iirc, Commodore were dead by that point but there was still a large Amiga following with many titles coming out on PC and Amiga, albeit mainly CD32 or Amiga CD-Rom at that point... 3D was just about gaining promanence, which the Amiga could not keep up with at all. Playstation seemed to grab a demographic which previously didn't indulge in video games, I think that was the Sony marketing behemouth at work, and work well it did. Prior to Playstation there was only a select group of friends who played computer games in my friendship group, roughly 3:1 had MegaDrives/SNES compared to Amiga, about 96 onwards lots of people had Playstations who previously had no interest in video games. The N64 also helped expand the market, people who did not have SNES somehow got N64's later on. I still remember the stories in many gaming magazines at the time, slating Sony and saying what a failure Sony would be compared to the gaming mainstream Sega and Nintendo (overhyped Saturn and the incoming N64)... those predictions aged like milk o.0. Similar stories came about just before xbox and how Microsoft should keep to PC/Windows.... those predictions also aged well o.0

Sony played it extremely well with their marketing, targeting a slightly older, non-geeky demographic and of course sucked up a load of programming/gaming talent in the form of Psygnosis (Studio Liverpool) and other Amiga veterans, coupled with some fashionable sports titles. They stole Sega's edgy-ness and Nintendo could expand on their cuddly, cutsie colourful titles (they never liked Mortal Kombat, and I was suprised Killer Instincts was nintendo title tbh) and grab the non-edgy market.

I can't talk for the rest of the Europe, but. Here in Italy Nintendo and SEGA sold well, most SEGA because of the lower prices, because they was distributed by two big toy companies. Mattel for Nintendo, Giochi Preziosi for SEGA. Both done a great job promoting consoles and games.
Commodore used his own resellers, which can't compete with the other two, especially in the last years of Commodore.
Sony was already sold by any TV and radio store and with a well known brand as Sony there was no need of much effort to make the sales start.
The playstation sales started to fly with the piracy. In the first days it was at the same level of the Saturn, and the older consoles, like the SNES and even the MD still sold well, because of the lower price.
After the piracy, the sales of the Playstation simply skyrocketed. Everyone had a Playstation, literally, everyone. Even who had no interest whatsoever in videogames got one. And I think the piracy contributed a lot for this. Not only for the super low cost of the games, but because you will find pirated games everywhere, that was a huge marketing campaign.

Besides games, there also was a scene of diskmags and fanzines, I think.
Just like there had been on PC-98 and PC/DOS, I think. And C64.
This site comes to mind: https://www.sunteam.co.uk/amiga.html
Sampe video (sfw): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i61vhE76w0o

Again, what I think is interesting/remarkable is the community of users.
While I wasn't very nice with my opinions on commercial side of Commodore and mass-production in this thread,
I must say that the users had their hearts in the right place.

Tandy machines might have appealed more to the same market as Amiga and Atari buyers, and had "mindshare" from their TRS80 line. So that might have been a blocker in the US market, where they never took off in Europe. I don't even remember seeing a Tandy in the RadioShack stores in the UK that were named Tandy, it was all Amstrad/Commodore