Why is Amiga so popular with retro community ?

Discussion about old PC hardware.

Re: Why is Amiga so popular with retro community ?

Postby matze79 » 2019-5-14 @ 14:24

i have no idea wtf! they made a game console with keyboard %)
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Re: Why is Amiga so popular with retro community ?

Postby appiah4 » 2019-5-14 @ 14:25

matze79 wrote:i have no idea why the fuck they made a game console with keyboard %)


OK I'm now officially triggered..
1989:A500|+512K|ACA500+|C1084S
1992:HIPPO-VL+|U5SX-33|8M|GD5428|CT2290|S2
1995:P5I430VX|P133|32M|S3T64+/MX2|V1|CT3980/32M
1998:S1573S|K6-2/400|64M|V2/SLI|CT4500/32M
2001:GA-6OXT|P3-1200|384M|GF4Ti4200|MX300
2004:K8VD|3700+|2G|X1950PRO|SB0350
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Re: Why is Amiga so popular with retro community ?

Postby matze79 » 2019-5-14 @ 14:30

Don`t take it serious :)

i also have a Amiga, but its purpose is only to insert disks and play. :)
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Re: Why is Amiga so popular with retro community ?

Postby Murugan » 2019-5-14 @ 14:54

That's the only thing I will do too when I'll buy one again :)
Just doubting between a 500 and 600. Shouldn't have sold them a few years ago...
My retro collection: too much...
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Re: Why is Amiga so popular with retro community ?

Postby keropi » 2019-5-14 @ 14:55

Go for a600 some furiaec020 and use whload :)
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Re: Why is Amiga so popular with retro community ?

Postby Munx » 2019-5-14 @ 14:56

Garrett W wrote:but I'm not a big fan of the ignorant fanboyism it has attracted through the years, it's almost as bad as SEGA fanboys :lol:


Over here boys, I found the NintenDORK! :lol:

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Re: Why is Amiga so popular with retro community ?

Postby PTherapist » 2019-5-14 @ 15:57

Amiga or Atari ST? Bah! Acorn Archimedes all the way....


.. I'm joking of course. :lol:

I had both an Amiga 500 & a CD32 briefly at one point. Wish I'd kept the CD32 now, in retrospect, but the Amiga 500 I only borrowed from a friend of the family. The Amiga was a great little system with some of the best looking games of the time, but alas I never had a lot of games for it. I'm thinking of taking the plunge and buying an Amiga, but probably will be next year.
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Re: Why is Amiga so popular with retro community ?

Postby Grzyb » 2019-5-14 @ 16:04

appiah4 wrote:Amiga absolutely decimated the PC AT

Decimated? Really?
Somehow 286 machines are still plentiful, and maybe even cheaper than Amigas...

Again, in the pre-3D era Amiga was a great gaming machine.
However, PC was great for many other purposes.
Different targets, no direct competition, no way to decimate each other.
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Re: Why is Amiga so popular with retro community ?

Postby brostenen » 2019-5-14 @ 18:39

Grzyb wrote:
appiah4 wrote:Amiga absolutely decimated the PC AT

Decimated? Really?
Somehow 286 machines are still plentiful, and maybe even cheaper than Amigas...


In terms of what that were possible to do on the platform, compared to other platforms. Not in terms of actual number of machines sold.

In 1988, a Unisys 286 8/10mhz with 640k of ram, 20mb MFM HDD, EGA card and EGA monitor. Mouse and keyboard would set you back some 15000 to 20000 Danish kroners. And an Amiga500 would set you back 3995 Danish kroners and a Commodore 1084 monitor would set you back 3495 Danish Kroners. A 512k memory upgrade for the Amiga500 would set you back 1195 Danish kroners. Nope.... Not before around 1993/94 and possible 1995, the PC would drop to low prices here. Even with that 512k upgrade, an Amiga500 setup would still be cheaper, and you got so much more, so it would be even cheaper if you looked at bang for the bucks.
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Re: Why is Amiga so popular with retro community ?

Postby Grzyb » 2019-5-14 @ 20:09

Sure.
And on A500, games looked better, and sounded much better than on that 286.
But try running on that Amiga some DBMS with several megabytes of data, try connecting it to Arcnet or Ethernet LAN, try using it with some some lab equipment via GPIB, or with some industrial gear via RS-485...
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Re: Why is Amiga so popular with retro community ?

Postby brostenen » 2019-5-14 @ 21:37

Grzyb wrote:Sure.
And on A500, games looked better, and sounded much better than on that 286.
But try running on that Amiga some DBMS with several megabytes of data, try connecting it to Arcnet or Ethernet LAN, try using it with some some lab equipment via GPIB, or with some industrial gear via RS-485...
"The right tool for the right purpose!"


Amiga 500 networking? That was avaliable: Ethernet and Arcnet or other solutions... (Even a modern are avaliable)

The rest might have been too big a handfull for an Amiga....
Else try and see what else have been invented. You might be surprised.

EDIT:
Speaking of demanding jobs.... Space Shuttle and Amiga at NASA.
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Re: Why is Amiga so popular with retro community ?

Postby Grzyb » 2019-5-14 @ 23:36

brostenen wrote:Speaking of demanding jobs.... Space Shuttle and Amiga at NASA.

Ha, but note that they weren't using A500, it was all A2000 or other "big" Amigas.
If you really want to compete with PC/AT, you need an A2000HD, where you can install a LAN card, a GPIB card, and more - just like in a PC.
However, I would expect it to be even more expensive than a PC.

A500 was a nice gaming toy, that's all.
On the other hand, big Amigas... "More than a toy, but no bargain" - https://web.archive.org/web/20071218030 ... 3000ux.pdf
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Re: Why is Amiga so popular with retro community ?

Postby BushLin » 2019-5-15 @ 00:35

The way I was blown away by the Amiga in the 80s can't be put into words. For anyone who doesn't get it, take a listen to what 1985 hardware could sound like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8FYh49E-Q0

This is an unremarkable game, given away free in 1990; attached to the cover of (IIRC) the 3rd most popular Amiga Magazine in the UK... but it's a great example of what one person could knock up back then.
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Re: Why is Amiga so popular with retro community ?

Postby realnc » 2019-5-15 @ 00:55

Grzyb wrote:If you really want to compete with PC/AT, you need an A2000HD, where you can install a LAN card, a GPIB card, and more - just like in a PC.
However, I would expect it to be even more expensive than a PC.

A500 was a nice gaming toy, that's all.

What do you mean, "that's all". That was a big deal :happy: Even when the PC overtook the market by 94 with better graphics, games were still being ported to the now old A500. I was playing Ishar 2/3, Monkey Island 1/2, Eye of the Beholder, Beneath a Steel Sky, and many other great games on that little box that came out in 87.

The A500 was worth it every single penny and then some. :happy:
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Re: Why is Amiga so popular with retro community ?

Postby bfcastello » 2019-5-15 @ 02:12

BushLin wrote:The way I was blown away by the Amiga in the 80s can't be put into words. For anyone who doesn't get it, take a listen to what 1985 hardware could sound like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8FYh49E-Q0

This is an unremarkable game, given away free in 1990; attached to the cover of (IIRC) the 3rd most popular Amiga Magazine in the UK... but it's a great example of what one person could knock up back then.


I was impressed by how people talked about the Amiga here. I had the impression that the Amiga was a “pre-historic” computer stuck in the early 80s by how people were talking about. Until I saw your video. It was 1990? Dude! That’s some serious graphics for a 1990 game. I never had an Amiga, but looks like it wasn’t so far from a PC. I’m impressed, really.
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Re: Why is Amiga so popular with retro community ?

Postby BushLin » 2019-5-15 @ 02:46

bfcastello wrote:I was impressed by how people talked about the Amiga here. I had the impression that the Amiga was a “pre-historic” computer stuck in the early 80s by how people were talking about. Until I saw your video. It was 1990? Dude! That’s some serious graphics for a 1990 game. I never had an Amiga, but looks like it wasn’t so far from a PC. I’m impressed, really.


If you want to be impressed by the graphics, take a look at what games could look like on 1st gen Amiga hardware:
https://youtu.be/Q0-z_bzJ3Bw?t=36
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Re: Why is Amiga so popular with retro community ?

Postby brostenen » 2019-5-15 @ 10:11

Grzyb wrote:
brostenen wrote:Speaking of demanding jobs.... Space Shuttle and Amiga at NASA.

Ha, but note that they weren't using A500, it was all A2000 or other "big" Amigas.
If you really want to compete with PC/AT, you need an A2000HD, where you can install a LAN card, a GPIB card, and more - just like in a PC.
However, I would expect it to be even more expensive than a PC.

A500 was a nice gaming toy, that's all.
On the other hand, big Amigas... "More than a toy, but no bargain" - https://web.archive.org/web/20071218030 ... 3000ux.pdf


Yes they were not Amiga500. Yet the question was about the Amiga. Not the Amiga model 500 alone. And I gave some examples on what was avaliable for the various models. And what various models can do. I linked to big box stuff too you know. Like nasa said, the PC arcitecture was as bad as always, and Apple would not give any documentation.

Yes I am fully aware of they used big box Amiga's. They were Amiga's too you know. And they actually tested with an model 1000 first, and the 500 are nothing but a featureless 2000. If you wanted, then it was possible to convert an 500 to an 2000 or even 3000. (Feature wise) It all depended on what model (non-plus or plus) and then adding the right hardware inside a tower case.

If you look at my 500 that I have on my blog, then I have a machine with VGA output, harddrive and lots of ram. It is just over 7 times faster than a stock Amiga1200 and 2 times faster than a stock Amiga 3000. It has some 60/70 percent of an Amiga3000's features too. And it is all internally mounted. Heck. I even have a boot selector, that I can use an gotek external drive as the internal floppy disk. Yes. All internal, and if I wanted and have the money, then it is possible to add a sidecar Zorro2 slot as well.

That however can be done with 1990 Amiga technology, as compared to a modern VampireV4. Wich will give me the option of running my 500 as if it was an Amiga4000 or CD32. Except for Zorro3 expansion. That is tricky on an A500. Though with an VampireV4 in an Amiga1200, and in a tower. Then I can get PCI slots and use a Voodoo3-PCI card and a SB-128 card. The only thing as of now, is that the V4 is not ready for sale yet, and they are still working on a V4 Amiga1200 edition.

EDIT:
For those that are not sure on what V4 is. Then there are this demonstration.
Last edited by brostenen on 2019-5-15 @ 10:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why is Amiga so popular with retro community ?

Postby Scali » 2019-5-15 @ 10:31

Grzyb wrote:On the other hand, big Amigas... "More than a toy, but no bargain" - https://web.archive.org/web/20071218030 ... 3000ux.pdf


The 3000UX was by far the most expensive Amiga. 'UX' here means that it was the Unix Workstation version (Commodore had their own UNIX for the Amiga, named AMIX).
Unix Workstations are in the high-end price range anyway, way more expensive than regular PCs, let alone regular Amigas.
So context is important with comparisons like that.
The non-UX version of the Amiga 3000 was much cheaper already.

The 3000UX is also a continuation of the original UX Amigas, based on the 2000. By the time the 3000 came along, the hardware was outdated for a Unix workstation, so as the article already says, not much point in buying that machine, except perhaps as an upgrade from an earlier AMIX machine.

By comparison, IBM also sold a workstation version of their XT, for their System/370: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC-based_ ... ter_XT/370
This also was MUCH more expensive than a regular 5160.
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Re: Why is Amiga so popular with retro community ?

Postby Grzyb » 2019-5-15 @ 12:20

brostenen wrote:If you look at my 500 that I have on my blog, then I have a machine with VGA output, harddrive and lots of ram. It is just over 7 times faster than a stock Amiga1200 and 2 times faster than a stock Amiga 3000. It has some 60/70 percent of an Amiga3000's features too. And it is all internally mounted. Heck. I even have a boot selector, that I can use an gotek external drive as the internal floppy disk. Yes. All internal, and if I wanted and have the money, then it is possible to add a sidecar Zorro2 slot as well.

That however can be done with 1990 Amiga technology

TF530, ScanPlusECS... somehow I doubt if these were available in 1990 :P

Scali wrote:The non-UX version of the Amiga 3000 was much cheaper already.

Cheaper, but still prohibitive - they are so rare that they still go for insane amounts of money, and I mean regular A3000, A3000T I've never even seen for sale!

The 3000UX is also a continuation of the original UX Amigas, based on the 2000. By the time the 3000 came along, the hardware was outdated for a Unix workstation, so as the article already says, not much point in buying that machine, except perhaps as an upgrade from an earlier AMIX machine.

No, there was no Unix for A2000.
Amiga Unix was originally released in 1990, along with A3000, and the only way to run it on an A2000 is to add some 030 board, ie. upgrade it to the A3000 level.
Anyway, it was the golden era of RISC, all the major vendors of Unix used RISC, and coming out with a CISC-based Unix machine only made sense if it was cheap - and some PCs were cheap enough, but not A3000.
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Re: Why is Amiga so popular with retro community ?

Postby Scali » 2019-5-15 @ 12:57

Grzyb wrote:Cheaper, but still prohibitive - they are so rare that they still go for insane amounts of money, and I mean regular A3000, A3000T I've never even seen for sale!


I think that has more to do with the fact that the A3000 wasn't very useful for most people.
Amiga 500/1000/2000 set the standard, and most software didn't require more than that. So for most people there was little reason to spend the extra money on an A3000.
Even the Amiga 2000 already suffered from that. It wasn't necessarily prohibitively expensive. It's just that an Amiga 500 was much cheaper, and did everything that 99/100 people expected from an Amiga.
The A2000 was only for that small niche that used PC bridgeboards, graphics accelerators and such.

Grzyb wrote:No, there was no Unix for A2000.
Amiga Unix was originally released in 1990, along with A3000, and the only way to run it on an A2000 is to add some 030 board, ie. upgrade it to the A3000 level.


An 020 board was enough, and there was the A2500UX, which was basically an A2000 with a CPU accelerator and HDD controller preinstalled. This configuration was already possible in 1988. I thought AMIX was released before the A3000UX was, but apparently not. I would assume that it was originally developed on such a configuration though.
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