Old game and demoscene demo captures on real hardware

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Re: Old game and demoscene demo captures on real hardware

Postby arncht » 2019-8-11 @ 08:29

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Socket 3 VLB @ 1994.10
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Socket 7 @ 1997.09
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Socket A @ 2003.06 - Athlon XP 3200+, Radeon 9800 Pro, Sound Blaster Audigy 2
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Re: Old game and demoscene demo captures on real hardware

Postby elianda » 2019-8-11 @ 09:36

Could you check your setup again for XL-R8R with GF 256?

If you look at this capture from a rather old i740:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDxjuXikgs8&t=1552
the GeForce256 capture seems to be considerably more blurred in the textures.
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Re: Old game and demoscene demo captures on real hardware

Postby wbhart » 2019-8-11 @ 11:41

It's amazing how many YouTube videos there are without real hardware. It's the same with games; everyone uses DOSBox.

I find it much better to see the real hardware running it because you can see the real framerate, there's no stuttering and you can do frame by frame analysis if you want to know how something was done. You just don't get that with DOSBox.
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Re: Old game and demoscene demo captures on real hardware

Postby elianda » 2019-8-11 @ 12:58

It is probably not the best thread location to open this box here as arncht captures from actual hardware.

However I have to admit that this is indeed a problem, mostly because it is usually nowhere documented and quality checked vs. captures from real hw. (also the rather common wrong aspect ratio problem, because people don't care)
This leads to situations where discussions start under videos from real hw, that on some other capture from emulator the sound is brighter/speed is faster/slower and so on. I think that a real system is still the reference. And there are all kinds of real systems that might sound/look slightly different. Still.
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Re: Old game and demoscene demo captures on real hardware

Postby arncht » 2019-8-11 @ 20:19

elianda wrote:Could you check your setup again for XL-R8R with GF 256?

If you look at this capture from a rather old i740:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDxjuXikgs8&t=1552
the GeForce256 capture seems to be considerably more blurred in the textures.


What should i check? I prefer basically the def settings in the dev tweak, just i changed the r9800 ogl texture filtering, because it looked like a 16 bit filter (striped).

But the mipmap, etc is the def, no forced aniso, etc. At the early cards eve4ry card rendered differently.

I also careful to use the authentic drv, not a late version.
My little retro computer world

Socket 3 VLB @ 1994.10
Socket 5 @ 1995.05
Socket 7 @ 1997.09
Slot 1 @ 2000.05
Socket A @ 2003.06 - Athlon XP 3200+, Radeon 9800 Pro, Sound Blaster Audigy 2
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Re: Old game and demoscene demo captures on real hardware

Postby elianda » 2019-8-11 @ 22:17

Hmm, I don't know. I just noticed that it looked more blurry on the GF256. I would expect that the textures show at least the same sharpness on a much newer card.

I have a setup with a GF2 Pro and 12.94 driver here and can have a look if it shows the same blurryness on XL-R8R.
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Re: Old game and demoscene demo captures on real hardware

Postby arncht » 2019-8-12 @ 06:15

The last drv was the 3.68 in 99, and 6.50 in 2000.
My little retro computer world

Socket 3 VLB @ 1994.10
Socket 5 @ 1995.05
Socket 7 @ 1997.09
Slot 1 @ 2000.05
Socket A @ 2003.06 - Athlon XP 3200+, Radeon 9800 Pro, Sound Blaster Audigy 2
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Re: Old game and demoscene demo captures on real hardware

Postby Scali » 2019-8-12 @ 08:30

elianda wrote:I have a setup with a GF2 Pro and 12.94 driver here and can have a look if it shows the same blurryness on XL-R8R.


Yes, I have a GF2GTS, and textures look very sharp in XL-R8R (by the way, there are commandline switches to select resolution or run it in 32-bit mode instead of the default 16-bit mode, to get even better quality. I've also made a utility to select videomode).
I expect the GF256 to have the same sharpness, because it's basically the same GPU, with the same texture units and all that.
If it's really that blurry, it must be a driver issue. I see no reason why it should be that blurry, because these cards had plenty of horsepower, and their speed and image quality were their selling point over the competition.
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Re: Old game and demoscene demo captures on real hardware

Postby arncht » 2019-8-12 @ 08:50

That is simple... try out with the default settings with the old drivers. And you will get the answer. I never tweak any settings, i want show, how it looked at the biggest part of the users in the past.

It was the 3.68 from 99, i did want to swap between every captures.
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My little retro computer world

Socket 3 VLB @ 1994.10
Socket 5 @ 1995.05
Socket 7 @ 1997.09
Slot 1 @ 2000.05
Socket A @ 2003.06 - Athlon XP 3200+, Radeon 9800 Pro, Sound Blaster Audigy 2
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Re: Old game and demoscene demo captures on real hardware

Postby arncht » 2019-8-14 @ 08:20

My little retro computer world

Socket 3 VLB @ 1994.10
Socket 5 @ 1995.05
Socket 7 @ 1997.09
Slot 1 @ 2000.05
Socket A @ 2003.06 - Athlon XP 3200+, Radeon 9800 Pro, Sound Blaster Audigy 2
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arncht
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Re: Old game and demoscene demo captures on real hardware

Postby arncht » 2019-8-18 @ 07:09

My little retro computer world

Socket 3 VLB @ 1994.10
Socket 5 @ 1995.05
Socket 7 @ 1997.09
Slot 1 @ 2000.05
Socket A @ 2003.06 - Athlon XP 3200+, Radeon 9800 Pro, Sound Blaster Audigy 2
User avatar
arncht
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Location: Vienna / Austria



Re: Old game and demoscene demo captures on real hardware

Postby arncht » 2019-8-20 @ 20:06

Scali wrote:
elianda wrote:I have a setup with a GF2 Pro and 12.94 driver here and can have a look if it shows the same blurryness on XL-R8R.


Yes, I have a GF2GTS, and textures look very sharp in XL-R8R (by the way, there are commandline switches to select resolution or run it in 32-bit mode instead of the default 16-bit mode, to get even better quality. I've also made a utility to select videomode).
I expect the GF256 to have the same sharpness, because it's basically the same GPU, with the same texture units and all that.
If it's really that blurry, it must be a driver issue. I see no reason why it should be that blurry, because these cards had plenty of horsepower, and their speed and image quality were their selling point over the competition.


i compared side by side with the 6.50, for me it looked the same. the default control panel settings are not the same.
for me more annoying the vsync (with high fps) - it looks always sluggish, the ati 9800pro was very smooth.
My little retro computer world

Socket 3 VLB @ 1994.10
Socket 5 @ 1995.05
Socket 7 @ 1997.09
Slot 1 @ 2000.05
Socket A @ 2003.06 - Athlon XP 3200+, Radeon 9800 Pro, Sound Blaster Audigy 2
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arncht
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Posts: 589
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Location: Vienna / Austria


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