SS7 - GB-5ax 4.1 + G3 TI200 + SB 16 CT2940 - No Dos sound(fixed) / Win98SE Q1/Q2/HL1 start crash, other games ok..

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SS7 - GB-5ax 4.1 + G3 TI200 + SB 16 CT2940 - No Dos sound(fixed) / Win98SE Q1/Q2/HL1 start crash, other games ok..

Postby ruthan » 2019-7-05 @ 17:19

Hi,
i expected little bit more pleasant experience with comeback to Super socket 7, especially when i used HW which i though that is quite "safe"..

I have this HW:
+ MB Gigabyet 5ax 4.1
+ Geforce 3 TI 200 worst one - Inno3D, but its still GF3 at least on paper and it was cheap..
+ Creative SB 16 CT2940 - i though that some creative SB 16 ISA non Vibra card would be best (at least the Wikipedia pointed me to this model as that one SB 16), i dont care about EAR, Aureal3D and other fancy staff..
+ 3x 128 MB of RAM - memtest at least for short run is good
+ 3Com 905B-TX 100 Mbit network card
+ 80 GB Matrox HDD
+ some IDE DVD-RW

I have 2 problems with it:
1) Win98SE (vanilla + drivers+IE6) - when i run Quake 1 - full, shareware, dos version, GLquake etc - i get freeze at the start of game loading a get info about video mode and SB settings and nothing.
I got quite similar problem with Quake 2 demo - last single player - start the game, and freeze with loading cursor and incialization window - no error message.
I tried multiple Graphics card drivers 8.xx-21.xx version no change, multiple DirectX version - it probably doesnt matters, but i had to upgrade it anywhere from DX 6.1 to 8.1b.
Half life uplink demo - again start freeze, it has Quake 1 engine too.

I though that problem can be in sound card, but even after card removal its the same.. I Dos same Quake 1 installation is running fine, without sound (see 2nd problem).
I used vanilla Win98SE sb drivers, later i tried sbw9xup.exe (1997) but its the same. Its the same with or without ALI Chipset drivers - i used 2.13 as someone recommended.

I dont have to much idea, what could be wrong when other games are fine.

When installed this machine from Ultimate Win98 SE cd with drivers packs and zillions of updates - these games were running fine, i didnt liked that "distro" overall.

Other games - Dos - Doom 2 / Warcraft II, ,MDK1. OpenGL Quake 3/ Vampire Redemption, Direct 3D - Expenpandable, MDK2, Diablo II,Warcraft III. Direct Draw - Diablo I are running fine, sound is fine within old of them.

2019-07-05 18.06.18-Quake2-Crash.jpg

2019-07-05 16.52.38-Q1-crash.jpg



2) Dos sound, it should be easy. I tried vanilla SB 16 driver recommended for virtual machines, i tried to run both Phils SB 16 drivers, but driver never detect SB at all.
Diagnose utility give me error that - Blaster variable is not set at all, or is not set properly - im using basic I5 D1 A220 Diagnose /S cant card at any address.

I tried IRQ7 too and any other enable options like 2 and 9 too, is the same.

Bios settings, i used manual configuration for reserve IRQ 5 to Legacy ISA for SB16 and DMA0 + DMA1 and DMA5 for Legacy ISA too, its working fine, but windows games are working fine, even when i disable it and it worked with Win98+drivers pack, but any of settings change cant now fix that Q1/Q2/Half life problem.
Last edited by ruthan on 2019-7-06 @ 10:52, edited 4 times in total.
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough HW.
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Re: SS7 problems - GB-5ax 4.1 + Geforce 3 TI200 + SB 16 CT2940 - No Dos sound / Win98SE Q1/Q2 start crash, other games ok..

Postby ruthan » 2019-7-05 @ 22:23

Ok i fixed Dos sound.

Problem was that for my card is needed some config.sys driver to be loaded, after that all my RealSB 16 settings are already working.. I read some tutorials, but there is missing this info, or its not highlighted enough. Other problem is that Creative drivers not support MS DOS 7.1, without messing with Setver to 6.22, so you can use installer out of box.. there is not too much info also how to use sbbasic and that second needed self installing archive, if you need to extract them to same directory (=overwrite some files or not) or not.

For someone else just dowload these pack and copy lines.., but it thing that is some DOS + WIn 3.11 mess together, it still need some fiddling and i thing that first SET line, dont need to be it Config, but should be in autoexec:
http://vogonsdrivers.com/getfile.php?fi ... enustate=0
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough HW.
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Re: SS7 problems - GB-5ax 4.1 + G3 TI200 + SB 16 CT2940 - No Dos sound(fixed) / Win98SE Q1/Q2 start crash, other games ok..

Postby canthearu » 2019-7-06 @ 00:58

Have you got a photo of the SB16 card you have.

It should reveal what you need to do to get it going.
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Re: SS7 problems - GB-5ax 4.1 + G3 TI200 + SB 16 CT2940 - No Dos sound(fixed) / Win98SE Q1/Q2 start crash, other games ok..

Postby ruthan » 2019-7-06 @ 09:58

Its this one:
Image

But i dont think that problem is related to sound card, Dos sound is now running, in exception of very problematic games like Ishar 1 - where maybe i need switch IRQ from 5 to 7?

Windows problem is there even without sound card installed in machine, i also tried very new Nvidia drivers 66.xx something and its still the same.
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough HW.
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Re: SS7 - GB-5ax 4.1 + G3 TI200 + SB 16 CT2940 - No Dos sound(fixed) / Win98SE Q1/Q2/HL1 start crash, other games ok..

Postby canthearu » 2019-7-06 @ 13:54

That sound card can be configured with CTCM, the plug and pray manager bundled with the SB16 drivers.

I'd start by trying a normal PCI video card if you have one. AGP on super socket 7 boards can be problematic.

See if your problems go away with that. If it does go away, you need to start playing with AGP settings. The 3dfx voodoo 3 AGP cards are good for machines like this because they are AGP format without actually using any AGP features.
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Re: SS7 - GB-5ax 4.1 + G3 TI200 + SB 16 CT2940 - No Dos sound(fixed) / Win98SE Q1/Q2/HL1 start crash, other games ok..

Postby ruthan » 2019-7-06 @ 15:30

I tried Matrox G450 AGP, quake problem is this here. I also tried Ishar 1 with IRQ 7 in DOS, but i still get only PC speaker sounds, SB is ignored.
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough HW.
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Re: SS7 - GB-5ax 4.1 + G3 TI200 + SB 16 CT2940 - No Dos sound(fixed) / Win98SE Q1/Q2/HL1 start crash, other games ok..

Postby canthearu » 2019-7-06 @ 22:33

ruthan wrote:I tried Matrox G450 AGP, quake problem is this here. I also tried Ishar 1 with IRQ 7 in DOS, but i still get only PC speaker sounds, SB is ignored.


Yeah, but that is still an AGP card that uses AGP features. Need to try a PCI card like S3 Virge to realy know if it is an AGP problem or not.
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Re: SS7 - GB-5ax 4.1 + G3 TI200 + SB 16 CT2940 - No Dos sound(fixed) / Win98SE Q1/Q2/HL1 start crash, other games ok..

Postby ruthan » 2019-7-07 @ 00:43

Ok i will try PCI Voodoo 3 2000, but arent there some software AGP disable feature in DirectX?

Lets say that is AGP problem, its strange one that is only with these games.. in bios is AGP memory size - i set it to max 128 MB (Geforce 3 has 128 MB) and some frame buffer size set to 16 MB (you can set it less, disable it or, set is to all), and these is some Pipeline option, but im not sure if is videocard related - its enabled.
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough HW.
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Re: SS7 - GB-5ax 4.1 + G3 TI200 + SB 16 CT2940 - No Dos sound(fixed) / Win98SE Q1/Q2/HL1 start crash, other games ok..

Postby bregolin » 2019-7-08 @ 22:57

Which processor are you using? SS7 can be quite picky for running the FSB at 100mhz. I had to downclock mine to 98 for it to be stable. Try bringing it down to 66mhz as it's the safest setting, see what happens.
IBM Aptiva 2162 - P55 166 MMX, 32MB, CS4237B + Wavetable, ATI Mach64 2MB / Win98SE
Custom PIII 750, 64MB, SB AWE64, Voodoo 3 3000 AGP / Win98SE
Sony Vaio z505 SuperSlim - PIII 550, 192MB, YMF744, NeoMagic 256AV+ / Win98SE
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Re: SS7 - GB-5ax 4.1 + G3 TI200 + SB 16 CT2940 - No Dos sound(fixed) / Win98SE Q1/Q2/HL1 start crash, other games ok..

Postby ruthan » 2019-7-09 @ 17:44

K6-2+ 550 MHz.. i would behave differently i thing it there would be problem with instable CPU, its freezing exactly at the same place and only with these 2 games, lots of other games are running fine for long time, so far i did not get any games freeze, only classical Win98 explorer freezes..
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough HW.
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Re: SS7 - GB-5ax 4.1 + G3 TI200 + SB 16 CT2940 - No Dos sound(fixed) / Win98SE Q1/Q2/HL1 start crash, other games ok..

Postby bregolin » 2019-7-10 @ 13:24

I had the exact CPU when I ran into issues with the FSB at 100mhz, as I had described. What's the harm in trying to lower the FSB? It's a quick and easy test :)
IBM Aptiva 2162 - P55 166 MMX, 32MB, CS4237B + Wavetable, ATI Mach64 2MB / Win98SE
Custom PIII 750, 64MB, SB AWE64, Voodoo 3 3000 AGP / Win98SE
Sony Vaio z505 SuperSlim - PIII 550, 192MB, YMF744, NeoMagic 256AV+ / Win98SE
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Re: SS7 - GB-5ax 4.1 + G3 TI200 + SB 16 CT2940 - No Dos sound(fixed) / Win98SE Q1/Q2/HL1 start crash, other games ok..

Postby ruthan » 2019-7-10 @ 15:49

You had same or similar issues? It seems to look like a long shot.. Main problem is that im now in different city, so i can only discuss things..
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough HW.
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Re: SS7 - GB-5ax 4.1 + G3 TI200 + SB 16 CT2940 - No Dos sound(fixed) / Win98SE Q1/Q2/HL1 start crash, other games ok..

Postby bregolin » 2019-7-10 @ 19:28

I understand. I had similiar problems but with other games as well, can't recall which.
IBM Aptiva 2162 - P55 166 MMX, 32MB, CS4237B + Wavetable, ATI Mach64 2MB / Win98SE
Custom PIII 750, 64MB, SB AWE64, Voodoo 3 3000 AGP / Win98SE
Sony Vaio z505 SuperSlim - PIII 550, 192MB, YMF744, NeoMagic 256AV+ / Win98SE
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Re: SS7 - GB-5ax 4.1 + G3 TI200 + SB 16 CT2940 - No Dos sound(fixed) / Win98SE Q1/Q2/HL1 start crash, other games ok..

Postby ruthan » 2019-7-11 @ 00:01

I though about FSB 100 theory.. and its probably not true, because as i wrote with WIn 98 ultimate drivers pack - http://www.mdgx.com/ubcd/ - install these games ran fine, i dint install any chipset drivers by myself.

At the start of SS7 project i though that i would use just some vanilla installation, without fancy new stuff unofficial SP3 and DirectX 8/9 as back in the era.. but Windows 98 were really bugged, there really lots low level fixes with SP3 (when i checked its changelog) + some more are par of that ultimate installation disk, maybe there was fix for my problem too.. or maybe its just mystery problem of Windows 98 HW detection and order how i installed things.. i really dont know how to debug it, there is event log like it modern Windows.

I tested it without or with ALI 2.13 drivers, installed most of Auto-patcher updates, but its the same.. i will other installation, SP3 etc.. its annoying. I ordered some SSDs and move USB to IDE adapter from thee location to make it a bit more problematic.

Other problem is that i still cant find some 256 MB mem sticks working with this MB, that ultimate drivers pack installation is big memory eater.. and i never too much checked Windows 98 memory consumation, but its slow and when i check it with statbar - after while all 384 MB are full, after boot i have something like 100 MB committed, but afer i while, even when i exit apps, its still used.. maybe problem is elsewhere that something is consuming more cpu.. but there is big diffence in responsivnes between clean my installation and ultimate drivers pack installation.. Its mainly about desktop OS / programs, games speed seems to be the same.
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough HW.
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Re: SS7 - GB-5ax 4.1 + G3 TI200 + SB 16 CT2940 - No Dos sound(fixed) / Win98SE Q1/Q2/HL1 start crash, other games ok..

Postby canthearu » 2019-7-11 @ 01:20

So changing to a PCI video card didn't fix anything?

I'm just trying to eliminate the AGP port as a source of problems (as it is often a source of problems for Super Socket 7 boards).

I'm more of a Pentium II sort of person, don't see super socket 7 hardware in my neck of the woods, plus it tends to work a little easier with less random buginess.
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Re: SS7 - GB-5ax 4.1 + G3 TI200 + SB 16 CT2940 - No Dos sound(fixed) / Win98SE Q1/Q2/HL1 start crash, other games ok..

Postby ruthan » 2019-7-11 @ 10:04

I will test PCI videocard this evening or tomorrow, im still in other of my lairs, im travelling between 3 locations because of work, at my main home in wooods with most of retro stuff im usually at Friday + weekend.
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough HW.
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Re: SS7 - GB-5ax 4.1 + G3 TI200 + SB 16 CT2940 - No Dos sound(fixed) / Win98SE Q1/Q2/HL1 start crash, other games ok..

Postby ruthan » 2019-7-12 @ 12:11

I tested V3 2000 PCI problem is exactly the same, same with Radeon 9000 AGP.
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough HW.
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ruthan
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Re: SS7 - GB-5ax 4.1 + G3 TI200 + SB 16 CT2940 - No Dos sound(fixed) / Win98SE Q1/Q2/HL1 start crash, other games ok..

Postby ruthan » 2019-8-08 @ 13:32

After one more reinstall GLquake is now working - with Radeon and Geforce 3, but i still have problem with Q2 demo now its not freezing completly, but i still getting orange window as in screenshot above, which i cant now close.

Half-life 1 demo is now running to, at least in software and OpenGL.
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough HW.
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ruthan
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Re: SS7 - GB-5ax 4.1 + G3 TI200 + SB 16 CT2940 - No Dos sound(fixed) / Win98SE Q1/Q2/HL1 start crash, other games ok..

Postby ruthan » 2019-8-10 @ 13:22

I tried gog version of Quake II and its running, so problem is only with demo.

Otherwise are there some proven ALI V drivers for Windows 98?
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough HW.
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