HELP! - Dead Intel VS440FX motherboard with BIOS EEPROM overheating - SOLVED

Discussion about old PC hardware.

HELP! - Dead Intel VS440FX motherboard with BIOS EEPROM overheating - SOLVED

Postby feipoa » 2019-7-27 @ 12:05

I have an Intel VS440FX motherboard that I cannot get to power up properly. The CPU fan spins fine, but the monitor stays blank. All three lights on the keyboard blink twice, which is usually occurs during a normal boot procedure. The power LED, which is connected to PWR LED on the motherboard, just blinks on and off. POST card shows all voltages OK. CLK, IRDY, and FRAME LEDs on the POST card remain illuminated. I did not spot any broken traces. I am using 256 MB of 60 ns FRM memory with parity, but I also tried 128 MB of 60 ns EDO, non-parity. For graphic cards, I've tried a VirgeDX and Matrox G200. I have tried three different power supplies.

I measured the VRM voltage to be 3.3 V, which is about what it should be for a Pentium Pro. I measured the following resistances with nothing plugged in:

12 V to GND = 3 K-ohms ---- [yellow cable]
5 V to GND = 61 ohms ---- [red cable]
3.3 V to GND = 10.4 K-ohms ---- [orange cable]
-12 V to GND = 2 M-ohms ---- [blue cable]
-5 V to GND = 0 ohms ---- [white cable]

I assume the motherboard is connecting the -5 V line to GND? Is 61 ohms between 5 V and GND OK?

The only glaring problem I noticed is that the EEPROM BIOS, Intel E28F002, gets abnormally hot, even after only 20 seconds of on-time. My IR gun shows its surface temperature at 60 C. My finger cannot remain on the chip for more than a second. No other IC's on the MB feel hot at all. I checked for metal shrapnel on the BIOSes pins, but found none. Is it possible that the previous owner ruined the EEPROM chip with a botched BIOS update attempt? And would this cause the BIOS to run hot like this?

I tried with and without the CMOS battery. I already tried resetting the CMOS clear jumper and putting the jumper back on normal operation.

Any other suitable ideas to test for?

VS440FX.jpg
Last edited by feipoa on 2019-8-16 @ 22:15, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
feipoa
l33t++
 
Posts: 6252
Joined: 2011-3-07 @ 13:54
Location: Canada

Re: HELP! - Dead Intel VS440FX motherboard with BIOS EEPROM overheating

Postby PKFreeZZy » 2019-7-27 @ 13:55

I don't have a wide grasp of electronics knowledge but I have a similar case to tell. I have an ASUS P2B with blown and missing caps which I tried to power on in that state. Did that in order to attempt a last resort BIOS flash for another dead MoBo. The chip was oriented as it should've been. Powering it on made the PSU fan spin up for a while but really all it did was fry the EEPROM chip beyond repair. All of those components I tested with still work, except the mobo.

If it gets hot that fast, then I'd first figure out what's causing it to overheat. Electrical components generate heat from drawing in power, so something gone bad is probably overusing it.
My Windows 98 PC: Slot 1 Pentium III 600EB|384MB PC133 SDRAM|32MB Leadtek GeForce2 Pro 5.5ns|Creative SB16 CT2230|COMPAQ Intel PRO 10/100Mbps|20GB Seagate Barracuda ATA IV|Linkworld LPD6-350W|Tekram P6Bx-A(n) Rev. 1.06
PKFreeZZy
Newbie
 
Posts: 73
Joined: 2017-12-08 @ 20:45

Re: HELP! - Dead Intel VS440FX motherboard with BIOS EEPROM overheating

Postby The Serpent Rider » 2019-7-27 @ 14:27

Is it possible that the previous owner ruined the EEPROM chip with a botched BIOS update attempt?

No. Probably it was killed by static or accidental short circuit by a screwdriver.
Anyway, it's dead and you'll have to find some dead Intel ATX board, desolder the chip and find a way to flash it with Intel VS440FX BIOS. Chips from Intel 430TX or 430HX should be compatible.
User avatar
The Serpent Rider
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1487
Joined: 2017-3-25 @ 19:07
Location: Stagnant Demesne

Re: HELP! - Dead Intel VS440FX motherboard with BIOS EEPROM overheating

Postby Doomn00b » 2019-7-27 @ 17:42

The Serpent Rider wrote:
Is it possible that the previous owner ruined the EEPROM chip with a botched BIOS update attempt?

No. Probably it was killed by static or accidental short circuit by a screwdriver.
Anyway, it's dead and you'll have to find some dead Intel ATX board, desolder the chip and find a way to flash it with Intel VS440FX BIOS. Chips from Intel 430TX or 430HX should be compatible.


I agree - it sadly sounds like a straight, classic short circuit.
User avatar
Doomn00b
Newbie
 
Posts: 44
Joined: 2018-9-14 @ 14:02
Location: The Freezing north

Re: HELP! - Dead Intel VS440FX motherboard with BIOS EEPROM overheating

Postby SSTV2 » 2019-7-27 @ 18:31

Yep, flash ROM is shunting internally. Form a solder blob on either side of the BIOS chip and lift it up in order to break current path to it, clean contacts on PCB with desoldering braid (if needed) and remeasure resistance between +5V and GND, it should be over 200 Ohms. From there, you know the rest of the procedures :)
User avatar
SSTV2
Member
 
Posts: 342
Joined: 2014-11-19 @ 20:30

Re: HELP! - Dead Intel VS440FX motherboard with BIOS EEPROM overheating

Postby feipoa » 2019-7-27 @ 21:13

Finding a TSOP-40 EEPROM 2 Mbit flash chip that works with my programmer will be the challenge. The database on the Wellon program isn't always a complete listing of offerings. I'll also need to order the DIP-TSOP-40 adapter. Might be more effort than its worth for such a common board. Wish they had used a DIP EEPROM on these boards.

But at least if I cut off the EEPROM, the 5V to GND resistance should go up.

Anyone have a part list of which TSOP-40 EEPROMs are compatible with E28F002 ?
User avatar
feipoa
l33t++
 
Posts: 6252
Joined: 2011-3-07 @ 13:54
Location: Canada

Re: HELP! - Dead Intel VS440FX motherboard with BIOS EEPROM overheating

Postby feipoa » 2019-7-27 @ 21:33

This is odd. I have a Wellon VP-390 and I'm looking through the programming software and for TSOP, I only se TSOP-28 and TSOP-48's listed in the programming list, although on the Wellon website, I do see DIP to TSOP-40 adapter, http://www.weilei.com/TSOP40E.htm I'm guessing this pin format was fairly uncommon and nobody input any entries in the Wellon software.

Thus, does anyone know of a BIOS programming service in which someone can send me a pre-programmed TSOP-40 2Mbit BIOS? Alternately, I'd need to find a new programmer which can program TSOP-40, and at which point, the cost becomes prohibitive.
User avatar
feipoa
l33t++
 
Posts: 6252
Joined: 2011-3-07 @ 13:54
Location: Canada

Re: HELP! - Dead Intel VS440FX motherboard with BIOS EEPROM overheating

Postby Windows9566 » 2019-7-27 @ 22:15

The Serpent Rider wrote:
Is it possible that the previous owner ruined the EEPROM chip with a botched BIOS update attempt?

No. Probably it was killed by static or accidental short circuit by a screwdriver.
Anyway, it's dead and you'll have to find some dead Intel ATX board, desolder the chip and find a way to flash it with Intel VS440FX BIOS. Chips from Intel 430TX or 430HX should be compatible.


thats why don't forget your anti static wrist band or to touch the PC chassis or power supply before working on them. ESD is harmful to electronics.
DOS PC - ASUS VX97, Pentium 133 P54C, 32 MB RAM, S3 Trio 64V+ 2MB, 40gb HDD, Win95 OSR2.1
Win 98 PC - Intel TC430HX, Pentium MMX 200, 64 MB RAM, S3 Virge DX, 3Dfx Voodoo, 40gb HDD, Win98 SE
User avatar
Windows9566
Member
 
Posts: 212
Joined: 2015-4-30 @ 14:55

Re: HELP! - Dead Intel VS440FX motherboard with BIOS EEPROM overheating

Postby The Serpent Rider » 2019-7-28 @ 00:24

Might be more effort than its worth for such a common board.

Wouldn't call any PPro boards common this days.
User avatar
The Serpent Rider
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1487
Joined: 2017-3-25 @ 19:07
Location: Stagnant Demesne

Re: HELP! - Dead Intel VS440FX motherboard with BIOS EEPROM overheating

Postby TheMobRules » 2019-7-28 @ 01:10

A while back I accidentally shorted an ISA slot of a PCChips M571 with a multimeter probe while checking voltages. The motherboard kept working until I turned it off, afterwards I have been unable to make it work again. Similar behavior to yours: when pressing the power button, fans spin, keyboard leds blink but otherwise it's dead.

I also noticed the BIOS chip got REALLY hot instantly, so it obviously died. I replaced it with another one flashed with the proper BIOS, but still nothing. I then found that a small 7805 voltage regulator near the BIOS was also getting really hot, replaced it but that didn't change anything. I gave up as I figured there were probably several components blown due to the short circuit and the board really wasn't worth it.
TheMobRules
Member
 
Posts: 447
Joined: 2016-1-19 @ 23:29

Re: HELP! - Dead Intel VS440FX motherboard with BIOS EEPROM overheating

Postby feipoa » 2019-7-28 @ 06:19

The Serpent Rider wrote:
Might be more effort than its worth for such a common board.

Wouldn't call any PPro boards common this days.

Splitting hairs here - the VS440FX seems fairly common for a PPRO board.

TheMobRules wrote:A while back I accidentally shorted an ISA slot of a PCChips M571 with a multimeter probe while checking voltages. The motherboard kept working until I turned it off, afterwards I have been unable to make it work again. Similar behavior to yours: when pressing the power button, fans spin, keyboard leds blink but otherwise it's dead.

I also noticed the BIOS chip got REALLY hot instantly, so it obviously died. I replaced it with another one flashed with the proper BIOS, but still nothing. I then found that a small 7805 voltage regulator near the BIOS was also getting really hot, replaced it but that didn't change anything. I gave up as I figured there were probably several components blown due to the short circuit and the board really wasn't worth it.

Interesting. After you replaced the BIOS, was the new chip also very hot? Did your keyboard lights flash a few times after power-on in its dead state?
User avatar
feipoa
l33t++
 
Posts: 6252
Joined: 2011-3-07 @ 13:54
Location: Canada

Re: HELP! - Dead Intel VS440FX motherboard with BIOS EEPROM overheating

Postby TheMobRules » 2019-7-28 @ 06:47

feipoa wrote:Interesting. After you replaced the BIOS, was the new chip also very hot? Did your keyboard lights flash a few times after power-on in its dead state?

The new EEPROM chip did not get hot and was readable/writable afterwards unlike the original one (completely dead) but the new 7805 got very hot quickly after power on, although I'm not sure if that's expected behavior as voltage regulators tend to run hot (I believe that particular regulator was there to feed the onboard SoundPro chip).

I recall the keyboard leds flashing at least once after pressing the power button on the dead board, but I don't remember much beyond that... now that I think about it, I didn't even try a POST card on that board. I may use one just to see if it displays something.
TheMobRules
Member
 
Posts: 447
Joined: 2016-1-19 @ 23:29

Re: HELP! - Dead Intel VS440FX motherboard with BIOS EEPROM overheating

Postby feipoa » 2019-7-28 @ 08:55

Alright. Let me feel around with some other components as well. I'll see if solder braid can remove the EEPROM, then I'll recheck the 5V-to-GND resistance. I think I also have some of that Quick Chip stuff from the 90's that I never used. Think it is necessary to salvage the EEPROM, or is solder braid sufficient for a two-sided TSOP-40?
User avatar
feipoa
l33t++
 
Posts: 6252
Joined: 2011-3-07 @ 13:54
Location: Canada

Re: HELP! - Dead Intel VS440FX motherboard with BIOS EEPROM overheating

Postby feipoa » 2019-7-28 @ 11:07

I removed the EEPROM. I ultimately didn't use any wick or QuickChip, but just used the solder as if it was QuickChip. Demo video from someone else here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZGEtpECPQY

Now when I measure 5V to GND on the motherboard, I get 1.42 K-ohms. This supports the hypothesis that the EEPROM is the issue here. No other IC on the board is hot. The interesting thing is that the with the EEPROM removed, I measured 24 M-ohm between Vcc and GND on the EEPROM. So how do I get 61 ohms between 5 V and GND when the EEPROM is soldered onto the motherboard?

I'm left in the position of: a) find someone who can program an E28F002 EEPROM chip, or b) find a programmer which can program this chip.

Apparently the XGecu TL866II Plus or TL866CS will program this chip. The EEPROM chip from my MB is the 80 ns piece, or E28F002BCT80. I only see this being sold on eBay for $120 - https://www.ebay.ca/itm/E28F002BCT80/14 ... SwFV9XyuoS , while the 120 ns chip, that is -BCT120 is $5+$10 - https://www.ebay.ca/itm/312641061487 . Do you think there is any necessity on this board for the 80 ns EEPROM? Or does anyone know of a compatible EEPROM part number?

TSOP-40_PCB.jpg

TSOP-40-E28F002.jpg
User avatar
feipoa
l33t++
 
Posts: 6252
Joined: 2011-3-07 @ 13:54
Location: Canada

Re: HELP! - Dead Intel VS440FX motherboard with BIOS EEPROM overheating

Postby SSTV2 » 2019-7-28 @ 13:16

Drop the idea of buying a programmer just to flash that chip, you can use a DIP40 to TSOP40 converter and use your regular programmer or in worst case scenario - hot-flash it in any MB that is compatible with it (GA-686BX might fit). You can also create your own adapter with just 2.54 headers and lacquered copper wires.
Attachments
40.png
User avatar
SSTV2
Member
 
Posts: 342
Joined: 2014-11-19 @ 20:30

Re: HELP! - Dead Intel VS440FX motherboard with BIOS EEPROM overheating

Postby feipoa » 2019-7-28 @ 20:15

I don't think I have another board that is compatible with this EEPROM and my current programmer also doesn't support the P28F002. How then to use the Wellon VP-390 to program a P28F002 or E28F002?
User avatar
feipoa
l33t++
 
Posts: 6252
Joined: 2011-3-07 @ 13:54
Location: Canada

Re: HELP! - Dead Intel VS440FX motherboard with BIOS EEPROM overheating

Postby SSTV2 » 2019-7-28 @ 23:24

Now I see why that chip cause you problems. This flash chip has built in a boot-block protection mechanism, but outside of that, it's still just a regular flash chip. You can rewire it to a 28F020 pinout and your programmer should accept it, just connect Vpp to the pin on 28F002 that controls boot-block protection.
User avatar
SSTV2
Member
 
Posts: 342
Joined: 2014-11-19 @ 20:30

Re: HELP! - Dead Intel VS440FX motherboard with BIOS EEPROM overheating

Postby feipoa » 2019-7-29 @ 09:13

My programmer does have an option for the 2 Mbit Intel P28F020 EEPROM. Aside from NC's, the difference in pinouts between E28F002BC and P28F020 is that the E28F002 has an RP# input pin, while the P28F020 does not. The manual lists RP# as,

Code: Select all
RESET/DEEP POWER-DOWN: Provides three-state control. Puts the device in deep power-down mode, locks, and unlocks the boot block from program/erase. When RP# is at logic high level (6.5V maximum), the boot block is locked and cannot be programmed or erased. When RP# = VHH (11.4V minimum ), the boot block is unlocked and can be programmed or erased. When RP# is at a logic low level the boot block is locked, the deep power-down mode is enabled and the WSM is reset—preventing any blocks from being programmed or erased. When RP# transitions from logic low to logic high, the flash memory enters the read array mode.

TSOP-40_to_DIP-32.png

So I should connect the pin on the Wellon programmer which corresponds to Vpp for the P28F020 directly to RP#?
And I would need something like the top half of this TSOP to DIP adapter and run 32 male-to-male jumper wires to the Wellon?
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/133104683280 or https://www.ebay.com/itm/222866410253

If so, I suppose I could order this adapter for $8, along with an EEPROM, and if it doesn't work, pay the $50 more to get the TL866II plus? The TL866 series seems like a more widely support programmer compared to the Wellon.

Lastly, do you know if 80 ns EEPROM's are required, or can I get away with 120 ns pieces? The 120 ns units are $5+$10, while the 80 ns Intel is over $100 for one item, according to eBay anyway. On the flip side, I see this EEPROM available on eBay with the Micron brand at 80 ns, that is, MT28F002C1 for $3+$3 shipping. https://www.ebay.com/itm/MT28F002C1VG-8 ... GTR=1#shId or 10 Micro pieces for $13, https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-PCS-MT28F00 ... SwxcRW9AzQ

There is also a TI branded unit for a little more, but I cannot find the datasheet: https://www.ebay.com/itm/TMS28F002AZ-T8 ... GTR=1#shId

Think the Micron will work? Or could this Intel board have some particular requirement for an Intel EEPROM?

EDIT: I have put in a request on utsource for the E28F002BCT80 pieces. They have the BVT60 pieces for $1.59 each. The BVT unit has an extra WP# pin on it, which is N/C on the BCT unit. Should the BVT work? On the motherboard, this particular pin goes to GND via a 100-ohm SMD resistor.
User avatar
feipoa
l33t++
 
Posts: 6252
Joined: 2011-3-07 @ 13:54
Location: Canada

Re: HELP! - Dead Intel VS440FX motherboard with BIOS EEPROM overheating

Postby SSTV2 » 2019-7-29 @ 13:54

feipoa wrote:So I should connect the pin on the Wellon programmer which corresponds to Vpp for the P28F020 directly to RP#?

Yes, or just put a jumper wire directly on the chip/adapter across the two pins, RP# must be @ 12V~ for chip to unlock boot-block.

feipoa wrote:And I would need something like the top half of this TSOP to DIP adapter and run 32 male-to-male jumper wires to the Wellon?
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/133104683280 or https://www.ebay.com/itm/222866410253

That adapter with a ZIF socket for TSOP ICs is just perfect for this matter.

feipoa wrote:If so, I suppose I could order this adapter for $8, along with an EEPROM, and if it doesn't work, pay the $50 more to get the TL866II plus? The TL866 series seems like a more widely support programmer compared to the Wellon.

I suppose, but I don't see why your programmer wouldn't flash that chip, if by some reasons it won't, then willem programmer is also an option and it is very well compatible even with the most ancient UV EPROMs.

feipoa wrote:Lastly, do you know if 80 ns EEPROM's are required, or can I get away with 120 ns pieces?

Not sure about access times in this case, so far I had no problems substituting slower ROM ICs in old Motherboards.

feipoa wrote:The BVT unit has an extra WP# pin on it, which is N/C on the BCT unit. Should the BVT work? On the motherboard, this particular pin goes to GND via a 100-ohm SMD resistor.

If that pad connects to a pull-down resistor on MB, then manufacturer has already thought about making it compatible with flash ROMs that do have WP# pin. According to datasheet, WP# has the same function as RP#, it's there only to make it compatible with systems that can't supply 12V.
User avatar
SSTV2
Member
 
Posts: 342
Joined: 2014-11-19 @ 20:30

Re: HELP! - Dead Intel VS440FX motherboard with BIOS EEPROM overheating

Postby feipoa » 2019-7-29 @ 22:09

Code: Select all
WP# pin has replaced a DU (Don’t Use) pin. Connect the WP# pin to control signal or to VCC or GND (in this case, a logic-level signal can be placed on DU pin). Refer to Tables 2 and 9 to see how the WP# pin works

OK, so for this motherboard, WP# is redundant and unused.

Unfortunately, I don't see the wiring diagram for this TSOP adapter, but presumably when adapters SN003 + SN001-2 are connected, the pinout is like that of P28F020? I don't really want to figure the pinout by hand touching these little SMD leads on the TSOP40.
User avatar
feipoa
l33t++
 
Posts: 6252
Joined: 2011-3-07 @ 13:54
Location: Canada

Next

Return to General Old Hardware

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BetaC, bofh.fromhell, imi, knowledge [bot], luckybob, Matth79, maxtherabbit, RogrWilco, xjas and 10 guests