Vynix wrote:

the machine I got is a HP Omnibook XE3

I suspect it will have one of the Savage/IX GPUs. Please post Menu->Machine->GPU Info + Menu->Machine->GPU VGA Dump and I will check if the clock reading looks the same as the 2000 before I make any changes.

Yup it's indeed one of the early Xe3s with the Savage/IX (some allegedly had Intel GMA chips in 'em but so far I never seen one of these 😐), I'll send the log tommorrow (as my computers aren't stored at my house but rather at a friend's place)

red-ray wrote:

No problem, this may well be why the Voodoo 3 is as it is, but there is no support for your ATI card at all, further I an not 100% sure exactly which card it is, I think it may be https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/3d-rage-pro-pci.c1717, is it? If not can you post a link to what it is please?

I just checked and my Voodoo 3 is OK on Windows Me, but it's the primary display. If you still get the incorrect clocks with Beta-10 please can you try with just the Voodoo 3 installed? When I checked Menu->Machine->GPU Info all the registers contained 0xFFFFFFFF which makes me wonder if the card has been initialised.

Thank you.

Reran with Beta 10, but got the same result. I'll try the V3 as primary video & on its own when I get the chance...

The exact Rage card I'm using is a PCI Rage LT Pro 8MB with a part number 109-54100-00. There were a lot of confusing variations of this chip, and my card doesn't look exactly like the one on the Techpowerup page, but the specs should be similar.

Edit: the Voodoo card has definitely been initialized, since it's running a second display and the desktop is spanning across both. (See this post...)

xjas wrote:

The exact Rage card I'm using is a PCI Rage LT Pro 8MB with a part number 109-54100-00.

Thank you for running the tests and the link. I have added support for the PCI Rage LT Pro 8MB to the Beta-11 SIV that's attached to SIV support for 386/486/586 class + Alpha CPUs and 3dfx + S3 + SiS + Matrox + XGI + old ATI + NVidia GPUs - Testing Help, how does it do?

I have also added some code that should detect the 0xFFFFFFFF and not show the clocks, but I can't see why it's FFFFFFFF in the first place. What speed does the 3dfx utility report? If you have HWiNFO what speed does it report?

Can you select AGP VGA rather than PCI in the BIOS and if so what happens when you do? I tried selecting PCI VGA on my system, but it still posts to the Voodoo 3 which I guess is down to a bug in the TYAN S2466 BIOS.

Below is what get's reported for my Voodoo 3 2000 and yours should be similar. Do you have Windows NT/2000/XP/2003 on the system and if so what does SIV report if you boot that?

1|Bus-Numb-Fun|  GPU Description (W)         Memory   Core      RAMDAC  Load  Volts  Temp  Fans  #  Additional Details
2
3[ 1 - 05 - 0 ]  3dfx Voodoo3 2000 AGP SDRAM 143MHz   143MHz    162MHz  0.0%  0.00   0°C   0        121A-0005-0030121A-01 (16MB)
4                AGP V1.0 x2 (x2)            GPU-0 (Avenger)                                        Memory Details  16MB 128-bit SDRAM
5                                                                                                   Memory Clock     143.182 MHz @ 3dfx Voodoo 3 Board
6                                                                                                   GPU Core Clock   143.182 MHz @ 3dfx Voodoo 3
7                                                                                                   RAMDAC Clock     161.974 MHz @ 3dfx Internal DAC
8                                                                                                   SDRAM CAS Latency (tCL)   3   0000B319 @ 2040
9                                                                                                   RAS to CAS Delay (tRCD)   3   00003A05
10                                                                                                   RAS Precharge (tRP)       3   00000C00
11                                                                                                   Cycle Time (tRAS)         8   0C17A9E9 @ 2018
12                                                                                                   Row Cycle Time (tRC)      11  40530031
13                                                                                                   GPU Status    0000001F [_]FIFO 0 [_]FBI [_]GPU

There goes, a fresh report from my Omnibook XE3 (from which I am posting this message 🤣)

Vynix wrote:

from which I am posting this message 🤣

Thank you and wow, I am surprised this is possible from 98SE.

In general SIV did OK, but it's not going to get the FSB/Ratio correct on W9x, boot NT4/W2K/WXP and it should.

I have added some code to the attached test SIV that should report some Savage clocks, does it and are they correct please?

I am unclear as to exactly which S3 Savage it is, do you know? The same PCI Device ID seems to be used for at lest four different S3 Savages 😮

It's a S3 Savage/IX MV (w/ TV-out), no idea about its real clock speed... If I can find a very ancient version of CPU-Z maybe I could find out its real frequencies...

As for booting into Win2k/NT (XP flat out doesn't work on this Omnibook I'm afraid 😢) I don't really know, I'll have to find a solution (I could try swapping the hard disk but this Omnibook is a nightmare to tear down, let alone swap the HDD which is a 2.5" IDE drive, unfortunately I don't have another one to swap), if I can find maybe a solution...

Perhaps I'll try installing NT4 on a USB drive and use Plop Boot manager to boot to the USB drive (as the BIOS on this machine can't boot from USB drives natively). That's very hacky but if that's my only recourse... No promises though.

Edit: in theory it should be possible to access Vogons from 98SE, provided you install IE 6 or Opera, IE6 has a bit of trouble with Vogons so uh I wouldn't recommend it.

Vynix wrote:

If I can find a very ancient version of CPU-Z maybe I could find out its real frequencies...

CPU-Z does not report my S3 Savage 2000 and in general does not report any GPUs that ATIADL/NVAPI don't support. If you post to CUPID's thread he may improve things.

Vynix wrote:

Perhaps I'll try installing NT4 on a USB drive.

NT4 does not even have USB support so I will be surprised if this works at all.

With my vintage systems I tend to have a 2GB C: FAT-16 on which I install a W9x then depending on the system I will install NT4, W2K, WXP or 2K3. If 2K3 will play I prefer this to WXP.

As for web access I just use my Windows 10 x64 Enterprise V10.00 Build 18362 19H1 system

red-ray wrote:

CPU-Z does not report my S3 Savage 2000 and in general does not report any GPUs that ATIADL/NVAPI don't support. If you post to […]
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Vynix wrote:

If I can find a very ancient version of CPU-Z maybe I could find out its real frequencies...

CPU-Z does not report my S3 Savage 2000 and in general does not report any GPUs that ATIADL/NVAPI don't support. If you post to CUPID's thread he may improve things.

Vynix wrote:

Perhaps I'll try installing NT4 on a USB drive.

NT4 does not even have USB support so I will be surprised if this works at all.

With my vintage systems I tend to have a 2GB C: FAT-16 on which I install a W9x then depending on the system I will install NT4, W2K, WXP or 2K3. If 2K3 will play I prefer this to WXP.

As for web access I just use my Windows 10 x64 Enterprise V10.00 Build 18362 19H1 system

Ahh I meant GPU-Z (when you want to rush things, it never dies any good) edit: Seems mole GPUZ doesn't work with S3 cards let alone Windows 98 or NT4... Darn.

Well yeha I'll probably end up swapping the hard drive with another one, or even find a PCMCIA to CF adapter if all else fails.

Nevermind the CF2PCMCIA crackpot idea... I might just go for the Win2k (coincidentally this laptop came with a Win2k COA 😁) only problem, I can't find any driver for Win2k, and since HP (and Intel it seems 😢) has the knack of axing legacy downloads, I am a bit afraid that drivers are going to cause me issues (and I seriously doubt there was any NT4 drivers for this machine)

Vynix wrote:

I can't find any driver for Win2k

I just checked an XP system and it comes with some S3 Savage drivers built in, there is a SavageMX, but no SavageIX and I wonder if the MX driver does both.

How does the Beta-11 SIV that's attached to SIV support for 386/486/586 class + Alpha CPUs and 3dfx + S3 + SiS + Matrox + XGI + old ATI + NVidia GPUs - Testing Help do on W98?

red-ray wrote:

Vynix wrote:

I can't find any driver for Win2k

I just checked an XP system and it comes with some S3 Savage drivers built in, there is a SavageMX, but no SavageIX and I wonder if the MX driver does both.

How does the Beta-11 SIV that's attached to SIV support for 386/486/586 class + Alpha CPUs and 3dfx + S3 + SiS + Matrox + XGI + old ATI + NVidia GPUs - Testing Help do on W98?

I haven't tried it yet, but I'll take a look at it.

Hmm looks like this time it's reporting the correct clockspeeds...

Vynix wrote:

Hmm looks like this time it's reporting the correct clockspeeds...

Thank you for checking this out, how do you know they are correct? Is there a SavageIX Utility that reports them?

BTW I tried GPUZ on my Athlon MP and a P-III system, it crashes out on both. When I looked into why it's been compiled to use SSE2 so will only work on P-4 and later CPUs so I reported this as an issue.

I've checked SIV's clockspeed readings against AIDA's results, both shown something similar.

As for the CPU, it is correctly being reported as 800MHz (checked against HP's official specs for the Omnibook XE3), looking on Intel's website, it seems that it's a Coppermine Mobile P3, although it's being reported by SIV as a Geyserville under Win9x.

I've set up a VM with NT4 to see if SIV would report something different, so far the only difference was that the CPU was reported as being a Coppermine P3, I have not yet tried on a physical Windows NT installation yet.

Vynix wrote:

I've set up a VM with NT4 to see if SIV would report something different, so far the only difference was that the CPU was reported as being a Coppermine P3.

Thank you. AFAIK Geyserville is/was the codename for a mobile Coppermine, see https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-ro … rt-3,112-5.html

In general running SIV in a VM will not work well as SIV will report whatever the VM presents rather than the actual hardware. I have seen such as a Core i7 CPU with a 440FX chipset which is clearly impossible!

As promised, here's results from Beta 11 in all three configurations: RAGE PCI card as primary (and the desktop spanned across both GPUs), Voodoo3 AGP as primary, and Voodoo3 on its own. It seems to be picking up the correct data from both when they're set to primary now, but it still clocks the Voodoo3 at "0MHz" when it's the secondary card. BTW I also confirmed the 125MHz V3 clock with HWInfo and in 3DFX's own properties utility.

(One thing that's bugging me a little is the reporting of ATI cards as AMD cards - this wasn't the case until ~2006 when the buyout occurred, and the branding didn't even change until the HD6xxx series around 2010 AFAIK. It's not a big deal, but "AMD Rage" just looks wrong. 😉 I imagine the device ID code is already full of if...then case statements, but if you want to change that, it'd be a little more accurate.)

^^ Rage as Primary GPU - reporting 3DFX @ 0MHz

^^ 3DFX as Primary - both cards report correct(?) clocks

I'll see if I can get this thing to boot the mini-XP image from Hiren's if it helps more. I don't want to change the main installed OS right now though.

In case it's useful, here's a report from Beta11 on my K6-2 with a legit Voodoo3 3000, running at the correctly detected clock speed of 166MHz. I didn't look over it too closely as my KVM was making the display spazz out, but everything seemed to be correct at a glance. This is the same system I ran the earlier betas on before.

xjas wrote:

As promised, here's results from Beta 11 in all three configurations: RAGE PCI card as primary (and the desktop spanned across both GPUs), Voodoo3 AGP as primary, and Voodoo3 on its own. It seems to be picking up the correct data from both when they're set to primary now, but it still clocks the Voodoo3 at "0MHz" when it's the secondary card. BTW I also confirmed the 125MHz V3 clock with HWInfo and in 3DFX's own properties utility.

Thank you for running the tests and generating the files. These confirm that the issue is the PCI Command register being 0x0002 rather than 0x0003 is the root cause of the issue. Is there any reason for having the Rage as the primary VGA device?

I could get SIV to enable I/O Access, but feel I should have a think about this before making any changes, epically so as I plan to release SIV 5.42 tomorrow. I suspect it would be wise to wait 'till you have figured out why your get the 125 MHz rather than a 143 MHz clock first, what do you think?

BTW for the 3dfx the RAMDAC Clock is the current clock so if you change the display resolution this should change.

xjas wrote:

(One thing that's bugging me a little is the reporting of ATI cards as AMD cards

This comes down to what AMD did, the PCI Device ID is made up of a Vendor ID + Device ID, ATI was vendor 1002 and AMD is vendor 1022, but AMD now use 1002 for such as my AMD Radeon RX 5700 which has an ID of 1002-731F. Clearly it should be reported as AMD so to do what you would like I would need to know which Vendor 1002 Device IDs were ATI. This would be possible, but I feel the effort needed would be excessive just to say ATI rather than AMD. Looking on my Matisse system the Device IDs for RX 5700 are not even adjacent.

1[ 10 - 00 - 0 ]  4    1002-1478-00000000-C4   PCI Bridge (10-11:12) x8@4 (x16@4)  AMD Radeon Navi PCIe Switch Upstream Port
2[ 11 - 00 - 0 ]  4    1002-1479-00000000-00   PCI Bridge (11-12) x16@4 (x16@4)    AMD Radeon Navi PCIe Switch Downstream Port
3[ 12 - 00 - 0 ]       1002-731F-0B361002-C4   VGA Controller x16@4 (x16@4)        AMD Radeon RX 5700 [GPU-1]
4[ 12 - 00 - 1 ]  51   1002-AB38-AB381002-00   High Def Audio x16@4 (x16@4)        AMD Radeon Navi 10 HDMI Audio

xjas wrote:

I'll see if I can get this thing to boot the mini-XP image from Hiren's if it helps more. I don't want to change the main installed OS right now though.

Now we have found the root cause of the FFFFFFFFs checking out what would happen on NT is not really needed.

Than again I wonder if the 3dfx driver for NT will enable I/O Access when it's not the primary GPU.

xjas wrote:

here's a report from Beta11 on my K6-2 with a legit Voodoo3 3000, running at the correctly detected clock speed of 166MHz.

Thank you, I comparted it to the earlier version and it's much the same, but SIV reported more about the Voodoo3.

Why is the speed 166 MHz rather then 143 MHz, is this 3000 vs. 2000 please?