OEMs are far more a matter of emotion and personal connection than any objective quality. Back in the day and today you can get more machine for less money by buying separate components. So it's all a matter of what you like and have warm fuzzy feelings for.

I worked the Packard Bell UK/IE helpdesk for two years around the turn of the millennium, and despite PBNEC being the worst employer bar none I have ever had, I have a weak spot for Packard Bell systems, at least some of them from that specific time. That's enough reason for me to have a few, but probably not for you 😉

Edit - as for your specific questions:

I'm basically good with anything as long as it can run Windows 95 (laptops count too) and it's easy to find parts for. However I […]
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I'm basically good with anything as long as it can run Windows 95 (laptops count too) and it's easy to find parts for. However I'd prefer:
* ISA support, to put in an AWE64 Gold
* Room for full length cards, to put in a Voodoo 3
* Slot 1, to put in a Pentium II Klamath 233MHz
* BTX/SFF format in desktop configuraiton.

This is a highly unlikely combination. BTX was from well after the Slot 1 period, so you're not going to find those two. If you mean LPX instead of BTX you get more options, but there again the LPX+AGP slot is a rare combination. You did see NLX+AGP quite a bit, but that was invariably from the post-ISA period. Tbh, if you want ISA and AGP, you'd be best off looking for simple uATX OEM systems. They were common enough.

Note that a Voodoo3 isn't even half-length AGP, let alone full-length. Even a Voodoo 5 isn't full-length, so this requirement is hardly a challenge.

Also note that when it comes to OEM systems, there could be huge differences between markets. With PB for example, the combination of uATX, Slot 1, AGP and ISA did not occur in EU models, but was available (courtesy of the PB 911 motherboard) in US systems. In EU I believe some Compaq Presario minitower systems from ~1998 had Slot 1, AGP and ISA, but I don't recall the exact models. Where are you from? It's not impossible to find systems from other markets, but unless you have a very very clear reason to do so, it's much cheaper and easier to stick to what was sold locally.

I figured I'd get a response like that.

Really I'm after a few things:
1. easy to set up.
2. easy to find replacement parts (oem motherboards are far easier to find than regular ones)
3. form factors that are otherwise impossible before the advent of ITX (and the earliest ITX are 98 only)
4. limitations.

Yes, limitations. You see, I'm not exactly good at conserving my time and money. When I started adding up my speculated 440BX/Pentium II/Voodoo 3/ATX build, I quickly started reaching over $500 and I wasn't even finished adding yet. When I saw that number I realized I needed to slow the hell down, and I figured an OEM would be a good way to limit that.

Right now, the GX110 SFF is interesting to me. The only concern is "half-length" pci card support. I know many sound cards are already half-length, but what about video cards? It's not a real specification that's listed on cards unlike half height/low profile.

EDIT - I'm from east coast US. I probably did mean LPX, whatever form factor meant small boards back then. And i can do without ISA and AGP, they're just bonuses.

EDIT2 - I'm noticing because of shipping costs and various other factors, what you say its true. For the most part OEMS are more expensive unless they're SFF, so with that being said I'm still interested in the GX1, GX110 or similar.

Not totally familiar with East Coast US situation, but USD 500?? Even on eBay (ludicrously overpriced as a rule) that's steep. Isn't there an active Craigslist page for your area (or somewhere you're prepared to drive to)? The only thing you're mentioning that should cost more than a few tens of dollars is the V3 and even there it should stay under USD 100. With a bit of luck you should be able to pick up a box with most of the stuff you want in it for under USD 100, OEM or custom.

As for "half length" - fuzzy terms like that do more harm than good. Figure out what the exact length permitted is (if not in the user guide, check the service manual) and use that.

I'm not a huge fan of the GX110 SFF, it's plasticky as hell and ten years back they were already falling apart all over the place. Also I doubt you'll find AGP in one of those SFF systems, and V3 PCI cards are significantly more expensive. If you want to go SFF, the Compaq Deskpro EN SFF units are rock solid. No AGP slots though, the older P2 versions have onboard ATi Rage Pro (nothing fancy, but acceptable), the later P3 versions have awful i810 integrated VGA.

It's more of a perfectionism issue and wanting to get better condition stuff if possible.. Let me show you how I got there:
* https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Full-size-AT … yoAAOSwxH1UK~Pk
* https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-SE440BX-2-ATX- … 5cAAOSwWDxdbsf7
* https://www.ebay.com/itm/3DFX-VOODOO3-16MB-AG … iIAAOSws0ldbC0H
* https://www.ebay.com/itm/INTEL-PENTIUM-II-SLO … xAAAOSwQXZZwtwK
* https://www.ebay.com/itm/CREATIVE-SOUND-BLAST … msAAOSwGJ5cfI3r

Yeah the thing about craigslist and facebook marketplace is that vintage hardware is NEVER around the philadelphia area.
* 3dfx voodoo: nothing
* awe64: nothing
* vintage pc case: nothing
* beige pc case: nothing
* slot 1 motherboard: completely unrelated Intel D865GBF + case bundle

I'd take your suggestion for an EN, I was very interested in them. But I don't see any drivers for them, at least easily found.

Usually I take what I can get at the right price, but if I could be picky I guess I would look for OEM's that it would be easy to still find the documentation. Dell is good example. I'd be more wary of someone whose been bought and sold or exited the PC market completely like: Epson, Xerox, Zenith, Wang ect..

So it does look like the EN is what I want. Anyone know where I can find drivers for them? or are they just standard intel chipset?

Exact drivers depend on the exact model, but I recall the one I ran as home server almost a decade ago (after 10 years of prior service as speedtest server at the ISP I worked for, only decommissioned because 10/100 NIC wouldn't cut it for increasing internet speeds) was bog standard: i440BX, ATi Rage Pro, Intel NIC, ESS1869 sound. The later P3 version had i810, Intel NIC and AC'97 audio. There was also one with a Matrox G400 in between, but I never saw that myself so can't comment on other specs. If you want to run DOS, you really want the older P2 version with the ESS1869. Clock-for-clock it was also faster, as the i810 shared memory loses half the memory bandwidth for CPU.

Compaq sometimes did interesting things with BIOS, but these machines just have BIOS accessed by keypress, with normal if limited options from there. You don't get extensive tuning/overclocking options in OEM BIOS.

I have no need to overclock or do anything special, so limited bios is fine. Also thanks, you confirmed that it doesn't look like they do anything special to their hardware drivers wise, it looked bog standard but I wanted to make sure.

Speaking of bios options, wouldn't the i810's memory bandwidth issue be null if I disabled it in bios and used any other graphics card?

[EDIT] I ask because I can't find the newer model's manual to confirm, and the older model is twice as much
* https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Compaq-Deskp … UEAAOSwi05dB~6j
* https://www.ebay.com/itm/Compaq-Deskpro-EN-P6 … gQAAOSwLUldLOUT
with still no craigslist/marketplace results I might add.

[EDIT2] BTW the card length limit is 7 inches. Think a voodoo 3 pci would fit?

I've never heard anyone fret about the length of retro video cards before.

rishooty wrote:

* BTX/SFF format in desktop configuraiton.

Apart from the fact that you won't find a Slot 1 mobo as BTX, I don't think there ever was BTX in desktop configuration. If so, they must be very rare. I've seen many and own some BTX towers but never came across a BTX desktop.

Lol yeah when I looked at what half-length meant, I realized it was actually standard size. Basically all "half-length" means is I won't be putting in a gravis ultrasound even if I found or wanted one.

Also yeah. The "BTX" was ignorance on my part. When I thought SFF my mind immediately went to those old pentium 4s that did have them.

rishooty wrote:

I have no need to overclock or do anything special, so limited bios is fine. Also thanks, you confirmed that it doesn't look like they do anything special to their hardware drivers wise, it looked bog standard but I wanted to make sure.

Speaking of bios options, wouldn't the i810's memory bandwidth issue be null if I disabled it in bios and used any other graphics card?

Not sure you can disable it in BIOS, but if you don't actively use it, it's not an issue.

[EDIT] I ask because I can't find the newer model's manual to confirm, and the older model is twice as much * https://www.ebay.c […]
Show full quote

[EDIT] I ask because I can't find the newer model's manual to confirm, and the older model is twice as much
* https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Compaq-Deskp … UEAAOSwi05dB~6j
* https://www.ebay.com/itm/Compaq-Deskpro-EN-P6 … gQAAOSwLUldLOUT
with still no craigslist/marketplace results I might add.

Patience is definitely a virtue with Craigslist/Marketplace type stuff. Things can and do pop up. Those prices are very much on the high side - you only need to pay that much if you need something NOW. There's one for sale here on the local marketplace for EUR 65 (USD 72), an old model pretty much maxed out. Given shipping costs and difficulties from EU to US almost certainly not interesting for you, but an indication of more realistic pricing, particularly given prices are generally lower in the US too.

Note that the newer version does not have ISA on the riser, so that's another reason to wait for an old one to pop up.

[EDIT2] BTW the card length limit is 7 inches. Think a voodoo 3 pci would fit?

Surprisingly I can't find that info online, but I happen to have one, so will check this evening (if I'm still mentally functioning after putting children to bed). I would be very surprised if it were longer.

rishooty wrote:

It seems most people recommend Dell optiplexes, IBMs aptivas, or HP Vectras, but any specific models?

Towers.
You can't go wrong with any of these OEM's with Intel CPU.

If you want AMD check out the Gateway 2000 tower with AMD 700 thru 1ghz CPU.

Seriously, I don’t remember there being an OEM SFF PC with those specs.
Sound like you want an Intel BX440 motherboard with Pentium II CPU.

See my build here:
AMD K6-lll+@500mhz., Voodoo 3000 (desktop)

Yeah, i figured those specs wouldn't be possible so that's why I said preferred. I was willing to give up DOS support, so I'm pretty committed to the later Deskpro EN now. I'm just waiting on the voodoo measurements before I commit to a card, I'd be ok with an MX440 if I had to.

These DeskPros are nice, I own one as well (not a SFF one, though). However, take note that these do not use standard parts. You can't just replace the mainboard, floppy drive or CD drive (custom bezel) if they go bad. Not even the PSU is standard in the SFF models.

I'm pretty well aware. But there's a slight contradiction in this in that there's tons of results for replacement parts. I'm also willing to give up some repairability to have a smaller form factor, if only to have it easier to fix than a laptop. Also, the power supply could technically be replaced by a picopsu. Though I'm not so sure of the picopsu's 5v rails.

[EDIT] I don't know, is the general consensus that I should try to build one myself but try to be cheaper about it? How exactly would I do that. Like what platforms are even affordable.

* My MB choices are pretty much Socket 7, Super Socket 7, Slot 1, and Socket 370. Motherboards especially feel overpriced on ebay.
* Beige cases also seem to be expensive in general too. I guess I should just look at a cheap modern case? I only care about having it in desktop configuration or a cube form factor(micro atx). The idea is that when I move out to my new apartment in 2 months, I can have it hooked up to my tv but not stick out like a sore thumb. I'm going to use a wireless ps/2 set and a sewell hammerhead to convert it to HDMI.
* Sound cards other than the vortex or awe64 gold are pretty cheap usually.
* video cards are usually pretty affordable too save for the voodoo

Dell DImension XPS D series... perfect for what you want.

oeuvre wrote:

Dell DImension XPS D series... perfect for what you want.

Excellent specs! Unfortunately none available in desktop configuration, and current ones on ebay sell for ~$150 USD at cheapest.

Look for Optiplex G1 or GX1 then