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advice for Retro Rigs

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Reply 20 of 47, by kasper21

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gdjacobs wrote:
kasper21 wrote:

So for later 90s, early 2000s games and software is the INTEL board a good choice ?

It's a really solid option for running a P3 and arguably better than the VIA board. However, the 815 chipset came along at a time that AMD was beginning to eat Intel's lunch with Athlon / Socket A options.

Ok, sounds like a pretty decent kit for that price, I think it's a winner for now.
Thank you so much.

Reply 21 of 47, by kasper21

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SirNickity wrote:
This is just me, but I would prioritize the case first, then worry about the guts. You seem set on the MMX, which I agree would […]
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This is just me, but I would prioritize the case first, then worry about the guts. You seem set on the MMX, which I agree would be a great machine to have in any retro setup. So that leaves the PII/III...

If that Celeron mini-tower is a standard form factor, that would sway me that direction. But, if the Intel PIII is in a case you like, that's the clear winner, IMO. I know you're not enthusiastic about having to fish for more parts down the road, but mobos, CPUs, video cards, sound cards, HDDs.. they come and go, and you can always piece together stuff as you find it. A case... a case is forever! 😁

Wouldn't worry about lack of ISA on a PIII. You have the MMX for DOS. Windows won't care, and PCI is technically the better option for everything except (way-)backwards compatibility. Grab an SB Live! and you're good to go.

CF vs HDD is a religious debate. IMO, it's not retro if it doesn't have a hard disk, but either gets the job done, and even I'll admit that when you're listening to bearings fail and watching Scandisk count clusters going bad, flash does have some kind of appeal.

Indeed, the case is very important. I will keep my eyes open for other options as well.

This is how the case looks for the FUJITSU P3 500mhz machine.
p3-case1.jpg
p3-case-2.jpg

I am thinking of getting it and swap the parts with the P3 800mhz INTEL ATX kit if it fits the case

Reply 22 of 47, by SirNickity

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Uhhh... I don't think it will. That layout is almost 180 deg of normal. The ports on the back would usually mean the CPU is somewhere along the top of the board. Here, it's in the bottom front, and the slots are on the top. No standard ATX board will fit that layout.

Reply 23 of 47, by kasper21

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SirNickity wrote:

Uhhh... I don't think it will. That layout is almost 180 deg of normal. The ports on the back would usually mean the CPU is somewhere along the top of the board. Here, it's in the bottom front, and the slots are on the top. No standard ATX board will fit that layout.

ok, so I definitly have to look for another case then for that kit.
The FUJITSU was a quick good-to-go option since it had almost all it needs for a basic run without anymore effort, but I think I will go towards the kit and build a new machine. More fun and I get a better rig.
I really want to get a Slot1 P2 at some point at around 300-400mhz anyway, so having a P3 at 500mhz would not make much of a difference really as some of you guys pointed out... also both of these would be SLOT1 and really close speeds to each other. a little overkill.. so I think I preffer to have a SLOT1 P2 and a socket370 P3 for socket variety and also a bigger gap in cpu speeds.

I kind of want to achieve this balance with my 3 setups :
1. The MMX machine to cover early stuff (166mhz) - win95
2. A slot1 Pentium 2 Deschute to cover the 300-400mhz - win98 and
3. the P3 machine at 800mhz to cover the later part. (winME) Even if the P3 covers the P2 probably at least it's somehow with one foot in the new 2000's era, right?

socket and OS variety and also significant difference in clock speeds.

Last edited by kasper21 on 2019-10-12, 00:30. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 24 of 47, by SirNickity

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This is very close to what I have: A Pentium 166 MMX with W95, a Pentium II 350MHz with W98, and a Pentium III Tualatin 1.0GHz with Win ME.

But, you really don't need all three. There's no real advantage to having a PII if you have a Pentium and a P3. The MMX will reach up into the games that the P3 can run, and vice versa. There isn't really anything the PII can do that the P3 won't do better.

For that matter, you could even skip all the way up to a P4, or even a Core 2, and wouldn't really miss much.

That said, I love my PII and you can pry it from my cold dead fingers. I also have a P4 with XP, and a Core 2 with Vista -- any two I could just as easily give up as well. But that's not happening either. 😉

Reply 25 of 47, by kasper21

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SirNickity wrote:
This is very close to what I have: A Pentium 166 MMX with W95, a Pentium II 350MHz with W98, and a Pentium III Tualatin 1.0GHz […]
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This is very close to what I have: A Pentium 166 MMX with W95, a Pentium II 350MHz with W98, and a Pentium III Tualatin 1.0GHz with Win ME.

But, you really don't need all three. There's no real advantage to having a PII if you have a Pentium and a P3. The MMX will reach up into the games that the P3 can run, and vice versa. There isn't really anything the PII can do that the P3 won't do better.

For that matter, you could even skip all the way up to a P4, or even a Core 2, and wouldn't really miss much.

That said, I love my PII and you can pry it from my cold dead fingers. I also have a P4 with XP, and a Core 2 with Vista -- any two I could just as easily give up as well. But that's not happening either. 😉

Wow exactly same concept! very cool setups you have. 😎 😎 😎 congrats!

indeed the P3 covers a lot, my only motivation is the OS variety, i need 3 builds to put up the 3 versions of Windows, and also software is as important to me as games. My vision is to put each versions dedicated to each OS. For example I will put Adobe Photoshop 3.0 to 4.0 versions on the WIN95, then from version 5 and up on the WIN98 one and so on according to what year the software was released. Repeated for all the other programs as well in same manner.

I am a graphic designer and want to try out all the early versions of the software I am using today + discontinued antique ones also. Just for the fun of it and to learn some history.
Back when these programs we're the standard I was a kid and I missed out on a lot. Now I am trying to catch up and build a nice library of both games and software.

Reply 26 of 47, by bearking

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Hi kasper21,

Last night I took a look to all the 4 systems and the kits mentioned by you along this thread(on olx, I'm from RO also...) and I would do like this:

1. I would definitely buy the P166 MMX system, the case is very nice and is in very good condition, probably you could max out the motherboard's potential with a P233 MMX or even an AMD K6 @300MHz... it's a socket 7 mb, not socket super 7, but...

2. ... for a somewhat faster system I would go for the PII 333 MHz, because it's a HP Vectra VE system with standard ATX motherboard, standard ATX power supply, basically it's a standard layout desktop PC. The motherboard in this system is a FIC VB-609 with Intel's BX440 chipset(the best for a PII system), but it has only 100MHz bus. Anytime you can put a PIII 500 MHz on it if you want a little more speed. I don't know if you can go higher with the processor, if I remember right, this mobo has only a 5x multiplier. These HP Vectra systems are really-really reliable.

3. The Celeron 400 system is a little bit odd, from the BIOS string and the pictures from the ad I can guess that is a Soltek Slot 1 mb with a VIA Apollo Pro Plus chipset. It's odd, because it is an AT form factor slot 1 mobo. If I'm right with the chipset, it has only 100 MHz bus, so the upgrade path is not that wide. If you are not a retro PC collector/enthusiast, you should go with the HP Vectra system. If you like to collect rare/odd systems, you should go with this system. If you want to play with old software, you should definitely go with the HP Vectra. The CPU is on a slotket adapter, probably an older one, but it's a nice piece of hardware...

4. In my opinion, you should definitely avoid buying systems like the PIII 500 Fujitsu, because it has a proprietary(rare) motherboard/PSU/etc. format! If something brakes in these kind of systems(mb, PSU), probably you can throw out the whole system because you probably won't find the replacement part. Again, if you are a retro PC collector, it's an interesting system to have, bot not for 45 euros 😀, maybe 5 or 10.

Regarding the kits, actually any mb+CPU+RAM kit, you should take in account that you will need to by the rest of the system... and you could end up paying a lot more to have a complete PC.

As for the prices, if you are not in a hurry and have some hardware knowledge and willingness to clean up dirty hardware 😀, you could find this kind of systems on your local flea market for 10 to 15 euros, easy. I don't know where you live, but in CJ I bought this week a socket 7 system with an AMD K5-PR100 CPU in a nice AT case with 10 euros and a beer 😀(50 ron), last month I bought a P100 + 24 Mb RAM + 1 Mb VGA + 1,2 Gb HDD + Creative CT2900 sound card + FDD + CDROM + a nice AT case amd PSU for the same price. For 1 euro(5 ron) I got a P166 MMX CPU + heatsink... Most of the sellers don't even know what are selling... Anyway, if this "activity" is not for anybody 😀

So, good luck! Hope my post would be at you help...

Reply 27 of 47, by bearking

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I am thinking of getting it and swap the parts with the P3 800mhz INTEL ATX kit if it fits the case

The Fujitsu case, and the mobo on it, it's not standard ATX! It won't fit for sure!

Reply 28 of 47, by kasper21

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bearking wrote:
Hi kasper21, […]
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Hi kasper21,

Last night I took a look to all the 4 systems and the kits mentioned by you along this thread(on olx, I'm from RO also...) and I would do like this:

1. I would definitely buy the P166 MMX system, the case is very nice and is in very good condition, probably you could max out the motherboard's potential with a P233 MMX or even an AMD K6 @300MHz... it's a socket 7 mb, not socket super 7, but...

2. ... for a somewhat faster system I would go for the PII 333 MHz, because it's a HP Vectra VE system with standard ATX motherboard, standard ATX power supply, basically it's a standard layout desktop PC. The motherboard in this system is a FIC VB-609 with Intel's BX440 chipset(the best for a PII system), but it has only 100MHz bus. Anytime you can put a PIII 500 MHz on it if you want a little more speed. I don't know if you can go higher with the processor, if I remember right, this mobo has only a 5x multiplier. These HP Vectra systems are really-really reliable.

3. The Celeron 400 system is a little bit odd, from the BIOS string and the pictures from the ad I can guess that is a Soltek Slot 1 mb with a VIA Apollo Pro Plus chipset. It's odd, because it is an AT form factor slot 1 mobo. If I'm right with the chipset, it has only 100 MHz bus, so the upgrade path is not that wide. If you are not a retro PC collector/enthusiast, you should go with the HP Vectra system. If you like to collect rare/odd systems, you should go with this system. If you want to play with old software, you should definitely go with the HP Vectra. The CPU is on a slotket adapter, probably an older one, but it's a nice piece of hardware...

4. In my opinion, you should definitely avoid buying systems like the PIII 500 Fujitsu, because it has a proprietary(rare) motherboard/PSU/etc. format! If something brakes in these kind of systems(mb, PSU), probably you can throw out the whole system because you probably won't find the replacement part. Again, if you are a retro PC collector, it's an interesting system to have, bot not for 45 euros 😀, maybe 5 or 10.

Regarding the kits, actually any mb+CPU+RAM kit, you should take in account that you will need to by the rest of the system... and you could end up paying a lot more to have a complete PC.

As for the prices, if you are not in a hurry and have some hardware knowledge and willingness to clean up dirty hardware 😀, you could find this kind of systems on your local flea market for 10 to 15 euros, easy. I don't know where you live, but in CJ I bought this week a socket 7 system with an AMD K5-PR100 CPU in a nice AT case with 10 euros and a beer 😀(50 ron), last month I bought a P100 + 24 Mb RAM + 1 Mb VGA + 1,2 Gb HDD + Creative CT2900 sound card + FDD + CDROM + a nice AT case amd PSU for the same price. For 1 euro(5 ron) I got a P166 MMX CPU + heatsink... Most of the sellers don't even know what are selling... Anyway, if this "activity" is not for anybody 😀

So, good luck! Hope my post would be at you help...

Hi bearking , nice to meet you and Great advice ! thanks a lot !
I live in Bucharest right now, I have been to a couple of thrift and flea markets but never found anything in good condition, too trashy or not enough for what I wanted, but definitely it's a GOOD idea which I should pursue more. I do like to fix, restore, and play with hardware so that is not a problem, the time factor is.
At this point I will definitely pass on the Fujitsu P3 and decide on the rest.

Reply 29 of 47, by SirNickity

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Come to think of it, I have an HP of that description banging around as well.. I think it might be a Vectra, but it's been a while since I last messed with it. Found it on a pallet on its way to the recyclers, and saved it for spare parts. I do believe it had a FIC motherboard which appeared to be standard ATX, but mine had a slot 1 Pentium II - 450, I think. It had two minor downsides: 1) Terrible hex screws, and 2) the coin cell battery was dead, so every time you start it up after having unplugged the power, it would ask for a boot password. You had to power it down, power it back up with the clear CMOS jumper shorted, power it down again, remove the shorted jumper, then boot normally. It's a pain, but a new battery would solve that. Other than that, it seemed like a decent computer ... I just don't have any interest in collecting OEM machines (save for a special few), so it's waiting to find itself a good home and I had completely forgotten about it.

Reply 30 of 47, by dionb

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bearking wrote:

I am thinking of getting it and swap the parts with the P3 800mhz INTEL ATX kit if it fits the case

The Fujitsu case, and the mobo on it, it's not standard ATX! It won't fit for sure!

Indeed. It's NLX, which isn't backwards compatible with any other standard.

Told you it wasn't AT...

Reply 31 of 47, by kasper21

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So i got the MMX and the Vectra today.
I will start analyzing and tweaking the MMX first then move on to the other.

I opened up the case and found 2 VXPRO-II chipsets, but no other branding, after searching a little came to the conclusion that it's most likely a M558 Motherboard - PC CHIPS? (please correct me if I'm wrong)

20191012-010208.jpg
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Only difference from the photos in the manuals is that mine apparently has only 2 cache chips instead of 4 like it appears there. Probably i have a 256k cache version only? and the full is 512k.. the jumper for switching caches is soldered on the 256k so that must be it..

Has Anyone encountered this board before? any opinions on it?

apparently it goes up to 75mhz clock speed and from the documentation i found,it seems it can be maxed out at 128MB EDO-RAM (4 x 72pin SIMMs only). no DIMM SDRAM slots... right now it's got 16MB only, so definitely going to get more RAM for it.
Also no sound card, so i'm looking for an ISA sound card as well. Will try to get an AWE64 since i hear it's the best choice for DOS/Win9x early. any other good models i should keep an eye out for?
Maybe if I find a 233mhz CPU for cheap I will upgrade that also, but i think I'm ok with the 166 for now.

It has the Cirrus Logic 5430 1MB video card as said before, a Micronet network card and a SONY CD-ROM which I think is VERY slow speed (from 1995 - CDU-50E) probably a 2x or less? - should i get another one with more decent speed? does it matter that much?
Found a USB header so definitely going to get a USB bracket.

so for now I'm pretty satisfied with the machine, its clean, good condition. Are there any other recommended upgrades/changes you would make ?

cheers

Last edited by kasper21 on 2019-10-11, 23:01. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 32 of 47, by dionb

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VXPRo-II... you really won the PC-Chips lottery. That's a board with the Utron UT801X chipset. As far as I was able to ascertain there were only ever two boards with that chipset, or even from that chipset vendor, both by PC-Chips (or relabeled as Amptron etc). The UT801X is therefore hardly supported by anything. It runs DOS and Win9x well enough, but nothing else (Linux, WinNT versions etc). Performance was lacklustre, even by the standards of the day, and there were interop issues with PCI cards that actually pushed the bus to its limits (TV cards, SBLIve etc).

Take any specs you may find with a pinch of salt. It's likely that the 128MB limit is accurate, but probably it can only cache 64MB of that in WB mode. More than 64MB is overkill for a Pentium MMX anyway. I'd stick with 4x 16MB or 2x 32MB SIMMs.

As for video, if this is DOS only you don't need much more than that Cirrus Logic card, although maybe an S3 card would give you better VESA compatibility. If you also want to run Win9x, you want at least 4MB RAM for decent resolutions. A later S3 PCI card could do the trick, say a Virge/DX.

As for CD, do you even intend to use it? If not, why bother. If so, decide whether authenticity or speed is more important for you.

I'm not a huge fan of Creative sound cards. The AWE64 doesn't have 'real' OPL3 for FM synth, the wavetable of the EMU8k is crappy compared to Yamaha, Korg or Roland (or indeed Gravis) alternatives. Instead of doing a neither flesh or fish single-card setup, you could consider a good DOS card (Aztech 23xx or Yamaha YMF71x based) with SBPro2, real OPL3 and bug-free MIDI, and a good Win9x PCI card (SBLive, Aureal2)

Reply 33 of 47, by kasper21

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dionb wrote:
VXPRo-II... you really won the PC-Chips lottery. That's a board with the Utron UT801X chipset. As far as I was able to ascertain […]
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VXPRo-II... you really won the PC-Chips lottery. That's a board with the Utron UT801X chipset. As far as I was able to ascertain there were only ever two boards with that chipset, or even from that chipset vendor, both by PC-Chips (or relabeled as Amptron etc). The UT801X is therefore hardly supported by anything. It runs DOS and Win9x well enough, but nothing else (Linux, WinNT versions etc). Performance was lacklustre, even by the standards of the day, and there were interop issues with PCI cards that actually pushed the bus to its limits (TV cards, SBLIve etc).

Take any specs you may find with a pinch of salt. It's likely that the 128MB limit is accurate, but probably it can only cache 64MB of that in WB mode. More than 64MB is overkill for a Pentium MMX anyway. I'd stick with 4x 16MB or 2x 32MB SIMMs.

As for video, if this is DOS only you don't need much more than that Cirrus Logic card, although maybe an S3 card would give you better VESA compatibility. If you also want to run Win9x, you want at least 4MB RAM for decent resolutions. A later S3 PCI card could do the trick, say a Virge/DX.

As for CD, do you even intend to use it? If not, why bother. If so, decide whether authenticity or speed is more important for you.

I'm not a huge fan of Creative sound cards. The AWE64 doesn't have 'real' OPL3 for FM synth, the wavetable of the EMU8k is crappy compared to Yamaha, Korg or Roland (or indeed Gravis) alternatives. Instead of doing a neither flesh or fish single-card setup, you could consider a good DOS card (Aztech 23xx or Yamaha YMF71x based) with SBPro2, real OPL3 and bug-free MIDI, and a good Win9x PCI card (SBLive, Aureal2)

I see... 😢 bummer I guess...

64 is more than decent, so I will follow your advice on that, was expecting 64 from the start anyways, i was a little surprised it supported 128 to be honest..

yes definitely interested in good resolutions, for the graphics software I will install on Win95. Will a S3 Trio 3d/2x do the trick? i think i can get one of those pretty quick..

for the CD i will use it when i Install Win95 and for putting on drivers and software till I get a USB bracket.

i am a little dissappointed to hear the Motherboard has poor performances and all, but i don't think i have much other choices at the moment. I was pretty much hoping to get a good one from start..
Would a - Jamicon KM-T5-V rev 2.0, chipset Intel 430VX - be a better choice? Found some kit for sale but its almost the same price I paid for the rig already.. It comes with full everything included but that would double my investment in the MMX machine... and a lot of leftover spare parts i won't use probably but paid for..

Reply 34 of 47, by SirNickity

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Don't be too down. I think the price you paid is reasonable for the case alone. Consider everything inside a bonus. You can get by with what you have for a while.

I'm not familiar with Jamicon, but TBH, the Pentium generation is at the tail end of an era where noname outfits made all the clone motherboards and half the time didn't bother to even label it. The 430TX is kind of the go-to Intel S7 chipset, but the VX is only one notch down from that. You'll have to settle for a max of 128MB RAM vs. 256MB on the TX -- haha.. All you need is 64MB anyway, and neither will cache more than that, so VX seems fine to me. What else are you getting from that bundle? Might well be worth it!

As for sound, I gotta agree with dionb. The SB Pro 2 is probably king of early DOS games. If you tend to favor late 90s (e.g., FPS) games, having 16-bit stereo PCM is nice -- ergo, an SB16 / AWE32 / AWE64 -- but it's not quite the leap in quality you would expect due to really low quality sound samples. OTOH, you can usually find the later cards more easily. If genuine OPL3 compatibility is important to you, you want to look at SB16s and the earlier AWE32s.

AWE64 is really a Windows card with DOS compatibility. People like it for that flexibility, but if you're going to be mainly in DOS, or only need basic digital audio support in Windows (vs. the expanded MIDI synth capabilities of the 64), then the AWE32 is probably a better choice. You can also get a plain SB16 and keep your eyes peeled for a so-called "Goldfinch" AWE32 upgrade card if and when you want wavetable MIDI. The EMU8K MIDI is no Sound Canvas, so unless you particularly have a fondness for it, you will probably be just as well off with an SB16 that has a wavetable header -- on which you can install a Dream Blaster card. Or go all out and track down some external synths...

Reply 35 of 47, by Caluser2000

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SirNickity wrote:

Wouldn't worry about lack of ISA on a PIII. You have the MMX for DOS. Windows won't care, and PCI is technically the better option for everything except (way-)backwards compatibility. Grab an SB Live! and you're good to go.

Are they really that good? I've got three in my pci box with the original driver CD. Some folk don't seem to rate them that highly on some forums I've been to.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 36 of 47, by kasper21

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SirNickity wrote:
Don't be too down. I think the price you paid is reasonable for the case alone. Consider everything inside a bonus. You can g […]
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Don't be too down. I think the price you paid is reasonable for the case alone. Consider everything inside a bonus. You can get by with what you have for a while.

I'm not familiar with Jamicon, but TBH, the Pentium generation is at the tail end of an era where noname outfits made all the clone motherboards and half the time didn't bother to even label it. The 430TX is kind of the go-to Intel S7 chipset, but the VX is only one notch down from that. You'll have to settle for a max of 128MB RAM vs. 256MB on the TX -- haha.. All you need is 64MB anyway, and neither will cache more than that, so VX seems fine to me. What else are you getting from that bundle? Might well be worth it!

As for sound, I gotta agree with dionb. The SB Pro 2 is probably king of early DOS games. If you tend to favor late 90s (e.g., FPS) games, having 16-bit stereo PCM is nice -- ergo, an SB16 / AWE32 / AWE64 -- but it's not quite the leap in quality you would expect due to really low quality sound samples. OTOH, you can usually find the later cards more easily. If genuine OPL3 compatibility is important to you, you want to look at SB16s and the earlier AWE32s.

AWE64 is really a Windows card with DOS compatibility. People like it for that flexibility, but if you're going to be mainly in DOS, or only need basic digital audio support in Windows (vs. the expanded MIDI synth capabilities of the 64), then the AWE32 is probably a better choice. You can also get a plain SB16 and keep your eyes peeled for a so-called "Goldfinch" AWE32 upgrade card if and when you want wavetable MIDI. The EMU8K MIDI is no Sound Canvas, so unless you particularly have a fondness for it, you will probably be just as well off with an SB16 that has a wavetable header -- on which you can install a Dream Blaster card. Or go all out and track down some external synths...

The kit package comes with this setup:
- CPU Intel Pentium MMX 233Mhz +cooler
- socket 7 mb: Jamicon KM-T5-V rev 2.0, chipset Intel 430VX, 4xPCI, 3xISA, 4xEDO, 2xIDE, 1xFDD, bracket serial included
- 64MB(2x32) EDO RAM
- video: S3 Trio 2MB slot PCI
- sound: Analog Devices AD1846JP slot ISA
- HDD Seagate 10.2GB IDE + cable
- CDROM Teac 52x IDE + cable
**PRICE: EUR 36 / USD 40 **
higher specs indeed then my current setup but with additional cost..

Regarding Sound, to be honest I am not that pretentious with it. I just want decent sound for DOS games and as close to the original inteded as possible, and good clear sound for later stuff, music and so on.
I am most likely going to play all games from Windows (software mode?), i won't boot them up in MS-DOS except for the ones i am obligated to, like pure DOS games (which i will try out a few as well). don't know how much it matters, just mentioning it. Some titles I want to replay (Doom games, Heretic, Hexxen, Quake1, Carmaggedon, Wolfenstein, 2d side scrollers like Jazz, Claw, Prehistorik and so on) so if a card gives me good sound for these titles among others I am ok with it.
The games are just for fun and passtime, its the software I am more excited about (that's why I want max RAM and a decent videocard)

Reply 37 of 47, by kasper21

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I picked up some stuff today, both some hardware and some software which i think will be pretty usefull for my PC projects that i started.

HARDWARE HAUL :
1. S3 VIRGE DX 2MB - PCI video card
2. 4xUSB 2.0 PCI controller (VIA VT6212L chipset)
3. C3DX HSP56 - CMI 8738 - PCI sound card
4. Zoltrix AUDIO PLUS 6400 3D - AV310model - CMI 8330 - ISA sound card
5. 2 x SDRAM 128MB PC133 + 1 x SDRAM 128MB PC100
PRICE: 20EURO /23USD

hardware-haul-12oct2019.jpg
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SOFTWARE HAUL:
1. Adobe PHOTOSHOP 7.0 - Win CD
2. Adobe ACROBAT 5.0 - Win CD
3. Adobe INDESIGN 2.0 - Win CD
4. Adobe ILLUSTRATOR 10 - Win CD
5. Adobe CREATIVE SUITE 2 Standard - Full Box set 5xDVDs - for Macintosh
6. Adobe PHOTOSHOP CS2 User Guide - sealed book
PRICE: 10 EURO / 12USD

software-haul-12oct2019.jpg
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Pretty decent deals in my opinion, more excited about the software though, all disks are in perfect condition.

Last edited by kasper21 on 2019-10-25, 01:30. Edited 3 times in total.

Reply 38 of 47, by Caluser2000

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A nice haul there. Good score.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 39 of 47, by SirNickity

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Caluser2000 wrote:
SirNickity wrote:

Grab an SB Live! and you're good to go.

Are they really that good? I've got three in my pci box with the original driver CD. Some folk don't seem to rate them that highly on some forums I've been to.

As all things, it's relative. Is it the pinnacle of audio quality? No. It has a 48kHz internal mixer, and everything is re-sampled to that rate. The SRC is not the best in the world. The noise floor will not compare to later cards either. But here's why I like it:

1) Let's be honest... sometimes hardware is subjective. I got one when I was first seriously getting into music production, and I used the heck out of the sampling / MIDI capabilities of it. It was a pretty substantial step up from the AWE32 I had before, which made me feel like I had invested in a real musical instrument (in college, where $150 was definitely an investment), so I've just got a fondness for it.
2) They're common as dirt, probably more common than an AWE64 (for e.g.) and thus can be had for peanuts. You have to make sure you get the right driver for a specific revision of the card, since there were so many, but if you can line up the model number with the software package designed for it -- which isn't hard since, again, they're super common -- then you're golden. (And later OSes probably have at least basic support out of the box.)
3) As a sidecar to #2, it's a known quantity with good software support. You get EAX, SoundFonts, a solid software bundle, and AWE compatibility with DOS games run in Windows -- but with essentially unlimited wavetable RAM.

There are plenty of alternatives, including non-Creative options for those that bristle at anything Sound Blaster, but IMO it's such a mixed bag out there that I always recommend you just stick to what works. (Unless it's something you're specifically interested in exploring, of course.) Thassall.