VOGONS


First post, by appiah4

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OK so I found a case and impulsively purchased it..

32037_00.jpg

Why? Well I do have a lot of retro PCs, some of which are in my signature, but they are all in older cases that more or less reflect or match the age of the hardware in them.. which is a problem because due to our current living arrangements the babysitter lives in my mancave and I will not have a hobby room to myself for a few more years at the very least. As a result, my work desk is currently located in the living room and I need to keep it looking clean and neat to keep my wife happy, which means I can't really have a 20-30 year old PC case around, so they are all locked away in storage.

Long story short, I need to build a new looking retro PC to do my regular retrocomputing stuff with. I was initially going to use a NOS AT mid-tower to build a 486 DX4 with, but I realized it does not really do everything I want to be able to do with it:

- Play DOS games
- Play Win9x games
- Mess around with OS/2 Warp (3 or 4)
- Mess around with Windows 2000
- Mess around with old Linux distros

I bought this case because I thought it had a retro feel without looking like I forgot a piece of junk under my work desk, so I want to build something in it. But I don't know what to build in it.

I have two ideas I'm bouncing around in my head, but I am completely open to others as well. Hardware was chosen with compatibility with multiple vintage OSes in mind as well as decent Video-Out for capturing DOS gaming footage..

Option A: The Eccentric Socket 7
As I already have a Super Socket 7 and an early Socket 7 PC, I thought this would be an easy build I could do with an eccentric, mid-range Socket 7 CPU..
PCChips-M560-TG.jpg Cyrix-MII-233-75-MHz.jpg ATI-Rage-Pro-ll-In-Wonder.jpg
A-Trend-ATC-2465-A4-Voodoo-1.jpg Creative-Sound-Blaster-16-CT2920.jpg Dreamblaster-S2.jpg

Option B: The Overkill Slot A
Slot-A is the only CPU architecture I never messed around with, I have a board with Universal AGP and ISA, so why not give it a go?
Gigabyte-GA-7-VX.jpg AMD-Athlon-800-B.jpg 3dfx-Voodoo-3-3000-D.jpg
Terratec-DMX-XFire-1024.jpg Genius-0207000-V2-0.jpg Dreamblaster-S2.jpg

Feel free to persuade me to build something else entirely or use a different kind of hardware for either build, but please help me decide!

Last edited by appiah4 on 2019-10-09, 20:28. Edited 5 times in total.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 1 of 13, by dionb

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Looking at your list, OS/2 Warp and DOS are the main determinants for hardware choice. It's been a while since I checked OS/2 audio driver and/or Voodoo support, but I'd let that decide the build.

Given you already have two So7 systems, I'd say the Athlon would be more interesting, and a better match for Win2k (although Win2k really wants an SMP build of course 😉 ). I might just suggest going with an nVidia GPU and using the Voodoo1 for GLide. I did the same with my P3-1400S build - started with V3-3000, then moved to G400Max+V2 and now have settled on Gf3Ti200+V2. The extra muscle of the Gf3 makes a lot of difference in the more high-end stuff, and older titles that really have added value on Voodoo work fine on V2. Your V1 is slower, but has the added advantage of being able to run DOS-only Voodoo games.

Reply 2 of 13, by jheronimus

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I'm also going the "eccentric Socket 7" soon, but it's going to be a much earlier platform - an ATX 430FX Intel-made motherboard with a Pentium-133 or Pentium-166 (basically an ATX Socket 5). The board will have a keyboard shortcut for mid-386 level turbo (likely just disabling L2 cache) and It's going to run DOS/Win 3.11. So in the end it will be something released just two years after 486DX4, but a lot more usable because it will be fast enough for most DOS games. Kind of the best consumer hardware you could get until Windows 95 came to market.

In your case it feels like you have two separate goals in mind:

1) have a machine that's compatible with as many OSes and games as possible;
2) have a machine that's different from your other systems.

Your "eccentric S7" meets the second goal, but not the first one. I mean, S7 is not great for Windows 2000 or most Win9x games.

So I guess, your ideal build would either be the Slot A you've listed or some kind of 440BX board (either Slot 1 or Socket 370).

MR BIOS catalog
Unicore catalog

Reply 4 of 13, by appiah4

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Thanks for the advice, let me adress them..

@dionb Yeah, although the idea of doing a reverse sleeper build in a modern-ish case was novel at first, I'm starting to realize that it's maybe the route that will least suit my needs.. I have no boards that I can do SMP with, unfortunately. The reason I went for a Voodoo 3 straightaway rather than a beefier DX/OpenGL card in tandem with a Voodoo 1 was to use Voodoo 3's TV-Out for capture. (Also, going that route pretty much replicates my own Tualatin + GF4 build so it's not very exciting to be honest). Voodoo 3 just gives me a lot of great things at once: Glide, agreeable performance, OS/2 drivers, TV-Out 😀

@jheronimus Interesting. I have no 430FX boards, but the TXPro and Cyrix mII are probably also a very uncommon combination to go for. And yes, you are right, I either need to drop Windows 2K (easy concession) and late Windows 98 gaming (Not so sure..) from my objectives to be content with the Socket 7 system.. A 440BX or similar Slot-1 system is very uninteresting to me, I played around wit the platform a lot and I would rather go with Socket 370 if I want to go that route.

@Intel486dx33 Thank you.. How about Socket A though? (See Below 😀 )

Another build I could go for, I suppose, is Socket A.

Option C: The Out of Place Socket A
I joined the Socket A party with AthlonXP so a Thunderbird is something I wanted to mess with. The board I have has Universal AGP and ISA, and I guess I can later upgrade it to an Athlon 1000 or a Duron 1300?
Gigabyte-GA-7-ZX.jpg AMD-Athlon-800.jpg 3dfx-Voodoo-3-3000-D.jpg
Terratec-DMX-XFire-1024.jpg Genius-0207000-V2-0.jpg Dreamblaster-S2.jpg

Last edited by appiah4 on 2019-10-09, 22:16. Edited 2 times in total.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 6 of 13, by dionb

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appiah4 wrote:

Thanks for the advice, let me adress them..

@dionb Yeah, although the idea of doing a reverse sleeper build in a modern-ish case was novel at first, I'm starting to realize that it's maybe the route that will least suit my needs.. I have no boards that I can do SMP with, unfortunately. The reason I went for a Voodoo 3 straightaway rather than a beefier DX/OpenGL card in tandem with a Voodoo 1 was to use Voodoo 3's TV-Out for capture. (Also, going that route pretty much replicates my own Tualatin + GF4 build so it's not very exciting to be honest). Voodoo 3 just gives me a lot of great things at once: Glide, agreeable performance, OS/2 drivers, TV-Out 😀

If your Tualatin also has Gf4, I can understand not wanting to replicate that. And if OS/2 supports Voodoo, it's game, set & match.

@jheronimus Interesting. I have no 430FX boards, but the TXPro and Cyrix mII are probably also a very uncommon combination to go for.

Not so sure about that, the PC Chips M560 was one of the commonest ALi Aladdin IV+ boards, and one of the fastest too - in fact in clock-for-clock benchmarking this M560 was the fastest So7 board I tested, beating i430TX, Aladdin V and MVP3 boards soundly in RAM performance. The pairing with MII is pretty common too as it was aimed at the lower price spectrum despite spectacular performance.

Option C: The Mega Overkill Socket A I joined the Socket A party with AthlonXP so a Thunderbird is something I wanted to mess wi […]
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Option C: The Mega Overkill Socket A
I joined the Socket A party with AthlonXP so a Thunderbird is something I wanted to mess with. The board I have has Universal AGP and ISA, and I guess I can later upgrade it to an Athlon 1000 or a Duron 1300?
Gigabyte-GA-7-ZX.jpg AMD-Athlon-800.jpg 3dfx-Voodoo-3-3000-D.jpg
Terratec-DMX-XFire-1024.jpg Edison-Gold-16-A.jpg Dreamblaster-S2.jpg

Tbh I'd stick with the Slot A system, this completely overlaps with your Tualatin.

Reply 7 of 13, by gdjacobs

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DNSDies wrote:

Go with a Confused Socket A, and use a mobile duron.
Then you can do setmul and cache disable shenanigans to make it slower.

Mobile Duron or Geode NX both allow Powernow reclocking!

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 8 of 13, by appiah4

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gdjacobs wrote:
DNSDies wrote:

Go with a Confused Socket A, and use a mobile duron.
Then you can do setmul and cache disable shenanigans to make it slower.

Mobile Duron or Geode NX both allow Powernow reclocking!

I wish I had either of the two 🙁 For now it looks like I'll be doing the Slot-A build and seeing how it works for me running DOS/Win9x games as well as OS2/Win2K/Linux

Figuring how to quad-boot OS/2, Win98, Win2K and Linux will probably be a challenge onto itself..

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 9 of 13, by SpectriaForce

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Definitely the slot A system.

I would eat my own shoes if I had to put an AT board in an ATX case with front USB. That's just impossible in my world 😊

Reply 10 of 13, by appiah4

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SpectriaForce wrote:

Definitely the slot A system.

I would eat my own shoes if I had to put an AT board in an ATX case with front USB. That's just impossible in my world 😊

Well, to be fair it has no front facing USB ports just two of them on the side 😎

For what it's worth, I can use this for the Eccentric Socket 7 build as well:

Tekram-P5-T30-A4.jpg

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 12 of 13, by appiah4

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Intel486dx33 wrote:

Are you trying to build one of these ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5vYD0JMD_A

Not quite; I'm neither building for the same goals nor with the same restrictions - compatibility above availability as far as I am concerned.. I already have a shitton of parts. I just want to cram the right ones into a new but simple ATX case and try to that will over a range of computing eras and OSs.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 13 of 13, by Intel486dx33

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I like to build once and never mess with is again.

If you want versatility then a SS7 with AGP or BX440 with AGP and NO audio is most versatile. ( ISA / PCI / AGP ).

For AMD build you could go with a German theme and parts with Terratec but most drivers are limited to Win98/Win2000 and can be made to work with XP

Sound Blaster theme computer will probably have the most driver compatibility.

If you plan on constantly swapping out parts then a test bench is probably what you want.