What stuff do you already have?

My thoughts:
- Win98SE doesn't need ISA, so spare yourself that struggle.
- Sound card is a three-way toss up between Aureal Vortex 2, Creative SBLive or Yamaha YMF744. I chose the Vortex 2 for my similar build, but could just as easily gone for one of the other two.
- AGP version depends on your graphics card. If you want Voodoos to be an option, you need 2x or 4x, not 8x.
- If you want a modern PSU, a CPU that uses the 12V rail is a better choice, so P4 or Athlon64.

Given 1999 as upper limit, combined with (period incorrect) desire to use new PSU, I'd suggest going for an early P4 system. That would give you universal AGP 4x, multiple ways to get 512MB (SDR-SDRAM, DDR-SDRAM, RDRAM if you want to be exotic), IDE and lots of PCI, without the CPU being complete overkill for 1999.

dionb wrote:

toss up between Aureal Vortex 2, Creative SBLive

Why not both (with profiles or simultaneously)?

dionb wrote:

What stuff do you already have? […]
Show full quote

What stuff do you already have?

My thoughts:
- Win98SE doesn't need ISA, so spare yourself that struggle.
- Sound card is a three-way toss up between Aureal Vortex 2, Creative SBLive or Yamaha YMF744. I chose the Vortex 2 for my similar build, but could just as easily gone for one of the other two.
- AGP version depends on your graphics card. If you want Voodoos to be an option, you need 2x or 4x, not 8x.
- If you want a modern PSU, a CPU that uses the 12V rail is a better choice, so P4 or Athlon64.

Given 1999 as upper limit, combined with (period incorrect) desire to use new PSU, I'd suggest going for an early P4 system. That would give you universal AGP 4x, multiple ways to get 512MB (SDR-SDRAM, DDR-SDRAM, RDRAM if you want to be exotic), IDE and lots of PCI, without the CPU being complete overkill for 1999.

Don't have much, hdd I have, disc drives and lots of spares/old gpu laying but think only one I have that come closest to my idea of 98 machine is ati rage pro 128 (32 mb) but like get better which is why I set this thread up

Period correctness I am not bothered too much

Was thinking about early p4 machine but wanted to see what other ideas may pop up and see what happens

What is the difference between those sound cards

What would be overkill for 1999

Any other ideas welcome

gdjacobs wrote:

dionb wrote:

toss up between Aureal Vortex 2, Creative SBLive

Why not both (with profiles or simultaneously)?

Can two pci sound cards be used at the same time, what about irq, dma etc

You only have to worry about irc, dma... etc when it comes to dos games. I would suggest GeForce 4 card and perhaps voodoo 2 card together with pentium 3 or pentium 4 cpu.

Robhalfordfan wrote:

[...]

Period correctness I am not bothered too much

Was thinking about early p4 machine but wanted to see what other ideas may pop up and see what happens

If you want to keep performance down to 1999 levels, go for So423, a P4-1300 isn't any faster than a P3-1000, but does play nice with modern PSU.

What is the difference between those sound cards

- Vortex2 does Aureal 3D audio perfectly, but no EAX.
- SBLive does EAX and pretty decent A3D too. Plus very good SNR - possibly the first truly good Creative sound card 😉
- YMF744 has great sound quality with hardware XG MIDI synthesis, also supports EAX and A3D (though not as good as the other two in their respective specialties).

And yes, you could run all three in parallel selecting whichever you want to use at a given time - or using the different cards for different things.

What would be overkill for 1999

1999 was the year of the Coppermine P3 and Slot A Athlon systems in the high-end, with both reaching 750-800MHz at the end of the year. Any P4, even the 1300, would beat that hands down.

thank you, all good info and helping with ideas

what is the different between these SDR-SDRAM, DDR-SDRAM, RDRAM

which gpu would fit this with playground there is out

Another for P4, parts are easy to find and prices aren't crazy yet. Modern PSU's are fine.
Socket 478 officially supports Win98 and still had AGP. later boards had SATA and IDE so you can use that isa CD drive with CD audio and any old Sata HDD which are easier to find.
Ideally you want a motherboard based on the 865 or 875 chip set, Technically the 875 is the better of the 2 but real world performance is the same. The Asus P4P 800 series is considered one of the best 865 based motherboards as a starting point.

Socket 775 while not officially supported can be made to work with 98 as well, This also gives you the option of AGP or PCI-E

Graphics, Whatever takes your fancy, You can go upto the most powerful cards in Win9x like the GF 6800 series at the expense of compatibility, or drop down to the GF4 Ti or FX series for best compatibility.

Sound, you would want a SBLive! as minimum for EAX3 depending on your games, I prefer the Audigy range myself though mainly the Audigy 2 ZS. Better sound and better drivers.
List of EAX games, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_EAX_support

Aural Vortex 2 on the other hand can only do EAX2, but can do A3D 2.0 something the creative card's cant (they can only do A3D 1.0)
List of A3D games, Aureal A3D _3.0_, SQ3500?? also, which A3D card is best?

As for the Ram, I'd decide on a motherboard first and then get the ram that board needs, Makes more sense then choosing a M/B around a type of ram.

chinny22 wrote:

Another for P4, parts are easy to find and prices aren't crazy yet. Modern PSU's are fine. Socket 478 officially supports Win98 […]
Show full quote

Another for P4, parts are easy to find and prices aren't crazy yet. Modern PSU's are fine.
Socket 478 officially supports Win98 and still had AGP. later boards had SATA and IDE so you can use that isa CD drive with CD audio and any old Sata HDD which are easier to find.
Ideally you want a motherboard based on the 865 or 875 chip set, Technically the 875 is the better of the 2 but real world performance is the same. The Asus P4P 800 series is considered one of the best 865 based motherboards as a starting point.

Socket 775 while not officially supported can be made to work with 98 as well, This also gives you the option of AGP or PCI-E

Graphics, Whatever takes your fancy, You can go upto the most powerful cards in Win9x like the GF 6800 series at the expense of compatibility, or drop down to the GF4 Ti or FX series for best compatibility.

Sound, you would want a SBLive! as minimum for EAX3 depending on your games, I prefer the Audigy range myself though mainly the Audigy 2 ZS. Better sound and better drivers.
List of EAX games, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_EAX_support

Aural Vortex 2 on the other hand can only do EAX2, but can do A3D 2.0 something the creative card's cant (they can only do A3D 1.0)
List of A3D games, Aureal A3D _3.0_, SQ3500?? also, which A3D card is best?

As for the Ram, I'd decide on a motherboard first and then get the ram that board needs, Makes more sense then choosing a M/B around a type of ram.

thank you for more info and good starting area and giving more idea for mobos/gpu etc

any particular brands to avoid when come to mobos etc

not sure a gpu memory - 16mb or 32mb or 64mb or 128mb as i would to have a middle ground between powerful and compatibility but leaning more into compatibility

More then brand is bad caps as this is from the cap plague era.
Asus were one of the better consumer brands at the time but still not immune, no on was.

GPU memory, 128mb is fine, 256 is where things may start to get interesting.
If it was me I'd probably go with a GeForce FX, easier to find the 4 Ti range.
https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/NVIDIA#N … _.7C_GeForce_FX

Check the system requirements of the more demanding games on your list and pick a card that's higher, ie if your most demanding game requires 64MB get a 128MB card to give yourself a bit of headroom

I don't think there's any game in 1999 that profits from more than 64MB of video memory.

When I look at your requirements, I think of a late i815 board with Tualatin support (not all 815s support them) and lots of PCI slots.
I'd prefer Intel here since you don't want more than 512MB RAM, and 3rd party chipsets can cause nuisances.
CPU max would be a P3-S 1.4GHz, but some boards don't officially support higher than say a 1.2GHz or so. These Tualatins will rival the sub-2GHz Willamette P4s.

This year range is 3Dfx Glide territory, and any P3 board should work with those cards. You might not end up using one, but it would be nice for the system to be compatible with them just in case.

Power requirements are generally modest, so I don't think you'd have much trouble using a modern PSU if desired.

An example of a board like this that I've used a bit is the Supermicro P3TSSA:
https://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboa … 815E/P3TSSA.cfm
They make some weird capacitor choices on their boards in this period.
Among the P3 and P4 Supermicro boards I've seen, I've never seen them actually use cheap Low-ESR caps. What I've seen have either been good quality Low-ESR caps, or cheap *general purpose* types (which you almost never see on motherboards). I can't remember what this board had.

shamino wrote:

Power requirements are generally modest, so I don't think you'd have much trouble using a modern PSU if desired.

i can use a modern psu with mobos that doesn't have the 12v 4-pin connecter on the board

Yes as long as you're within the limits of the ATX connector and the PSU rails.

gdjacobs wrote:

Yes as long as you're within the limits of the ATX connector and the PSU rails.

what would be those limits as in the amps on each rail

Robhalfordfan wrote:

gdjacobs wrote:

Yes as long as you're within the limits of the ATX connector and the PSU rails.

what would be those limits as in the amps on each rail

Start with the load table supplied with the power supply.

dionb wrote:

What stuff do you already have? […]
Show full quote

What stuff do you already have?

My thoughts:
- Win98SE doesn't need ISA, so spare yourself that struggle.
- Sound card is a three-way toss up between Aureal Vortex 2, Creative SBLive or Yamaha YMF744. I chose the Vortex 2 for my similar build, but could just as easily gone for one of the other two.
- AGP version depends on your graphics card. If you want Voodoos to be an option, you need 2x or 4x, not 8x.
- If you want a modern PSU, a CPU that uses the 12V rail is a better choice, so P4 or Athlon64.

Given 1999 as upper limit, combined with (period incorrect) desire to use new PSU, I'd suggest going for an early P4 system. That would give you universal AGP 4x, multiple ways to get 512MB (SDR-SDRAM, DDR-SDRAM, RDRAM if you want to be exotic), IDE and lots of PCI, without the CPU being complete overkill for 1999.

I have had success with Aureal Vortex 2 + Audigy 2ZS and you could even make a case for having a third sound in the YMF744 for real OPL3 - Although all the windows games I have tried do support windows sound, general midi, or sound blaster pro emulation which the Vortex 2 and the Audigy 2 do support.

If I had to pick a single sound card for windows 98 (windows only) I would choose the Audigy 2ZS. The sound quality on it is really, really good. A3D 2.0 is really cool, but only a few games really take advantage of it. EAX 2.0 sounds pretty much the same in most games, while the audigy 2ZS just sounds a lot cleaner than the Vortex 2 overall. It is also much cheaper on the used market. Make sure to install the VXD drivers though.

I have a socket 478 Asus P4P 800E , and it was cheap, has working integrated SATA, gigabit ethernet, and USB 2.0 all with windows 98 drivers. I also have an ASrock quad core dual vsta socket 775, an AMD athlon on socket 462, and a couple of slot 1 boards, and overall I have found socket 478 to have the best combination of compatibility/stability in windows 98. I know you said no DOS, but you can even do pretty well in DOS with a PCI OPL3 sound card like the YMF744 or an ESS Solo-1.

A Windows 98 PC that is "the best it can be" but only needs to play games from 95 to 99 is a bit of a conflict!

Some people would say the best W98 PC is as fast as possible - a Socket 775 board with an AGP 7950 GT and laser sharks or something.

But then I think the best Windows 98 PC is maximum compatibility with DOS games/sound, Glide, DX, OGL, EAX, A3D whilst using modern solutions (for modern problems;) ) where possible such as CF cards, modern power supplies, a Gotek emulator, gaming at 1280 *1024 (Double what I was gaming at at the time) until I get a bigger 4:3 / 5:4 monitor...

Anyway given your requirements (which are actually quite light) I'd suggest a Socket 478 PC with any 2GHz or so fast Pentium 4. I'm suggesting Socket 478 over Socket A as 478 works much better with modern power supplies. A 2GHz Northwood P4 is overkill but not "stupid overkill" for Windows 98 gaming and I would hope it would be a bit cooler than the 3GHz+ ones?

DDR RAM is so cheap still that I think I'll have to pay someone to take mine away if I ever want to shift it. Just stick with a 256 or 512mb stick, whatever you get hold of first - I can't think of any 1999 game that is going to want more than 256mb, or 128 for that matter.

Sound Card - I'd say a Soundblaster Live or Audigy (1 or 2) just because I have them and EAX sounds interesting in those old games if you're used to them with software sound. Make sure you spend a little extra to get a retail and not an OEM one.

Graphics - I would think that for games 1999 and earlier the AGP speed is unlikely to be a big factor. I'd suggest a Voodoo 3 just due to the era of the games you suggest, which doesn't use AGP "very well" anyway. If you're on a budget a later Nvidia MX 420/40/60.

Almoststew1990 wrote:

Anyway given your requirements (which are actually quite light) I'd suggest a Socket 478 PC with any 2GHz or so fast Pentium 4. I'm suggesting Socket 478 over Socket A as 478 works much better with modern power supplies. A 2GHz Northwood P4 is overkill but not "stupid overkill" for Windows 98 gaming and I would hope it would be a bit cooler than the 3GHz+ ones?

Northwood runs cooler than prescott and performs pretty much exactly the same, especially running earlier software. There are 89 watt and 65 watt chips depending on the clock speed. I would suggest get an 800mhz FSB CPU with HT, like the 2.4ghz model with a TDP of 61 watts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_P … microprocessors

The 800mhz FSB models have lower multipliers, so you can effectively underclock them by lowering the FSB in the bios. You can also disable HT and save a few watts that way too.

Speed sensitivity isn't the goal, but intel chipsets are also compatible with throttle.exe and have limited compatibility with setmul (you can disabled at least the L1 cache). I think you can get somewhere around a 386 at the slowest, but IMO it is most useful for the few windows games that are speed sensitive. Some of them need a lower clocked pentium 3 or pentium 2 to run reliably (the original lego land is best on approximately a pentium 133 for example). Especially if you are using Voodoo cards.