VOGONS


First post, by BeginnerGuy

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Looking to have some fun with the 286 board (pictured below, in working condition running at 12mhz). Now, I don't know squat about crystal oscillators or their standard packages. I'm just now beginning to transition to the study of these components (rather than just blindly soldering and trusting guides), so I'm reaching out ahead of myself once again on this project.I'd like to install a socket to make future swaps simple. Would this socket be "4 pin (14-position DIP package)" ? (FYI I'm talking about the existing 24MHZ crystal, I'd like to grab a 32, 40, and 50mhz for starters).

On to the crystals themselves, there are quite a few variations. The closest I can find to the picture (I'm assuming these are through hole and not surface mounted) on mouser are radial termination / through hole mounting style. If that's right, what Voltage [input] do I want? 5V? 3.3V? Do I want TTL or HCMOS? Is that bugger DIP-14? Full size? Any other important details such as frequency stability or load capacitance?

I'm also assuming that 14.318... oscillator is going to keep the isa bus sane, but not too sure about the memory. There's also a 12mhz crystal which I figure is for the optional 287. Information varies drastically from source to source about these systems, so I was assuming I would step up the speed in increments and test for stability.

file.php?id=52024&mode=view

Feel free to link to any explanations or further interesting study for me to look at. Would also be interested in knowing what I should do about pairing a 287 if I decide to keep the system running at high speed (16, 20, 25mhz)

Thanks!

Last edited by BeginnerGuy on 2019-10-21, 21:35. Edited 3 times in total.

Sup. I like computers. Are you a computer?

Reply 1 of 4, by Predator99

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

This board seems not to be in working condition but looks very nice. You should not modify / destroy it for your soldering practices. Look out for a board in a worser condition for your exercises please 😉

Reply 2 of 4, by BeginnerGuy

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Board is 100% working, I'm using it right now. It wasn't populated in the image with CPU/Bios/etc because Liqmat was cleaning it at the time 😜

What could possibly go wrong replacing the clock crystal? I have years of experience soldering.. if it's through hole it's a quick and easy job. I'll even add a fan over the components for good measure when I'm done 😜

Sup. I like computers. Are you a computer?

Reply 3 of 4, by Horun

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

One thing to keep in mind is that changing the CPU clock will likely change the ISA bus speed and ram timing. At 24Mhz /2 for cpu and /3 for ISA so going to 32Mhz (for say a Harris 16mhz cpu) will put the ISA at 10.6 which most GOOD vid and IDE cards should handle but you would probably have to add get faster ram if there is no Wait State jumpers to add. Yeah the 12Mhz xtal is most likely for the co-processor, they can run Async. The 14.318 Mhz xtal is for CGA/MDA cards timing thru ISA bus (VGA have there own xtals), and there should also be a micro 32.7 Khz micro Xtal for cmos and RTC if you didn't have the Dallas RTC chip. Sorry just rambling on as I have done similar with 386sx boards in the past :p

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 4 of 4, by BeginnerGuy

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Horun wrote:

One thing to keep in mind is that changing the CPU clock will likely change the ISA bus speed and ram timing. At 24Mhz /2 for cpu and /3 for ISA so going to 32Mhz (for say a Harris 16mhz cpu) will put the ISA at 10.6 which most GOOD vid and IDE cards should handle but you would probably have to add get faster ram if there is no Wait State jumpers to add. Yeah the 12Mhz xtal is most likely for the co-processor, they can run Async. The 14.318 Mhz xtal is for CGA/MDA cards timing thru ISA bus (VGA have there own xtals), and there should also be a micro 32.7 Khz micro Xtal for cmos and RTC if you didn't have the Dallas RTC chip. Sorry just rambling on as I have done similar with 386sx boards in the past :p

I believe I see one more crystal in the pic right next to the AT power connectors (re: CMOS). I haven't seen the board myself yet, it was gifted to me in a nice AT case which I've been using. This is just a future plan to do some modifications.

So if what you're saying is correct re -ISA speeds at 1/3 of xtal, it would be impossible for me to run anywhere above 16mhz. 16mhz would still be a quite significant lift for this machine anyway. 20mhz would require 13~mhz ISA and 25mhz forget it (~17mhz). This board does indeed have a wait state jumper according to the manual, I can set it to 1WS if need be.

Did later 286 boards that were capable of running the 25mhz chips have additional clock dividing circuitry or yet another xtal? Surely they aren't pushing the ISA bus that far.

Sup. I like computers. Are you a computer?