VOGONS


Voodoo 3 "baking"?

Topic actions

First post, by Con 2 botones

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Argh...¡no!
My precious Voodoo 3 3000 started to show some "artifacting"!
(I tried with two different PCs, just to make sure the card was the problem)
I suspect it is a soldering issue. I even could tell this happened due to some tests I was carrying out inside a small, hot, micro-ATX chassis, during a hot weather day.

It is not artifacts all over, but definitely noticeable. During POST it doesn´t happen so far, just while in dekptop environment and games. I even tried a DOS game (DukeNukem 3D) and there´s less artifacting shown there.

Have you ever had luck with "baking" cards using flux?
Is there any other method you consider is better than the above?
Is there hope, or should it rest in peace after a glorious lifetime of service?

Thanks in advance!

Reply 1 of 23, by dan86

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

A voodoo3 will hardly ever be fixed my baking. Baking is best used on card that have tin solder with can crack with age unlike led solder that the Voodoo3 likely has.
I never seen flux used when backing. Id not want to use it as it could lead to a mess of the oven and card. As for the card artifacting. Have you tried down clocking the card or any other troubleshooting aside form trying the card in a different system?

Reply 4 of 23, by Con 2 botones

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
dan86 wrote:

A voodoo3 will hardly ever be fixed my baking. Baking is best used on card that have tin solder with can crack with age unlike led solder that the Voodoo3 likely has.
I never seen flux used when backing. Id not want to use it as it could lead to a mess of the oven and card. As for the card artifacting. Have you tried down clocking the card or any other troubleshooting aside form trying the card in a different system?

Underclocking I haven´t tried, but in case it matters, I never overclocked it. One day it was working perfect, the next this problem developed.

I used the 3dfx uninstaller tool and reinstalled the drivers (1.07.00-whql) twice. I don´t think it is necessary to reinstall the system since, as mentioned before, same behaviour is seen in another machine with W98se.

What else would you suggest?

Thank you!

Last edited by Con 2 botones on 2019-11-25, 18:58. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 5 of 23, by Con 2 botones

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
Vaudane wrote:

Before you jump into that, make sure the TIM hasn't degraded and the core is simply overheating.

What exactly is the "TIM"?

Thank you!

Last edited by Con 2 botones on 2019-11-25, 18:48. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 6 of 23, by Con 2 botones

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
derSammler wrote:
Con 2 botones wrote:

Argh...¡no!
My precious Voodoo 3 3000 started to show some "artifacting"!

Define that "artifacting", or show a picture.

I am not at home right now, but I will post a picture later.
By "artifacting" I meant small coloured pixels appearing randomly in different parts of the screen. Sometimes some letters in the desktop icons will "disappear" and if you refresh or move the mouse cursor over them, they reappear.

Thank you!

Last edited by Con 2 botones on 2019-11-25, 19:09. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 7 of 23, by brostenen

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
Con 2 botones wrote:
Vaudane wrote:

Before you jump into that, make sure the TIM hasn't degraded and the core is simply overheating.

What exactly is the "TIM"?

Thank you!

I guess this is the answer:
https://www.overclock.net/forum/246-air-cooli … s-tim-mean.html

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk

001100 010010 011110 100001 101101 110011

Jah ich will trynen... Die Leute wie macht scheisse in dem Grünen.

Reply 8 of 23, by Con 2 botones

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
brostenen wrote:
Con 2 botones wrote:
Vaudane wrote:

Before you jump into that, make sure the TIM hasn't degraded and the core is simply overheating.

What exactly is the "TIM"?

Thank you!

I guess this is the answer:
https://www.overclock.net/forum/246-air-cooli … s-tim-mean.html

Ah, that surely was what he was referring to, sorry.
I am so used to the terms "thermal paste", never heard about its proper full name... TIM = Thermal Interface Material.

The "artifacting" shows as soon as I get to the desktop, when I´ve just powered the PC on. So, to be honest I don´t think it is an overheating case.
Still, I will replace the TIM with Artic Cooling MX4 I have around, just in case.

Thank you!

Reply 10 of 23, by Vaudane

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
Con 2 botones wrote:
Ah, that surely was what he was referring to, sorry. I am so used to the terms "thermal paste", never heard about its proper fu […]
Show full quote
brostenen wrote:

Ah, that surely was what he was referring to, sorry.
I am so used to the terms "thermal paste", never heard about its proper full name... TIM = Thermal Interface Material.

The "artifacting" shows as soon as I get to the desktop, when I´ve just powered the PC on. So, to be honest I don´t think it is an overheating case.
Still, I will replace the TIM with Artic Cooling MX4 I have around, just in case.

Thank you!

Yup! Thermal Interface Material! Sorry, force of jargon habit.

Thermal paste should be replaced at least every 3-5 years on anything that uses thermal paste. After that when it dries out it acts more as an insulator than a thermal conductor. Heat and voltage are the two main things that cause artefacting on any gpu. As previous poster said, make sure none of the electrolytics are bulging. A photo of the card would help us diagnose it.

Do let us know!

Reply 11 of 23, by appiah4

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Don't bake it.

It ends up terribly for old cards like this.

I tried to bake a Rage Fury Maxx and ended up completely burning the card even at temperatures that should have been completely fine according to the procedure for modern cards.

The kind of solder these cards have is really different.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 12 of 23, by dan86

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
RoyBatty wrote:

Could be caps, could be the core chip, could be ram.

You should downclock the core and see if it goes away, and then the ram, and then both. This can reveal what is failing.

Core clock and ram clock are linked on the voodoo3. You can't change them separately.

Reply 14 of 23, by derpmochump

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
appiah4 wrote:
Don't bake it. […]
Show full quote

Don't bake it.

It ends up terribly for old cards like this.

I tried to bake a Rage Fury Maxx and ended up completely burning the card even at temperatures that should have been completely fine according to the procedure for modern cards.

The kind of solder these cards have is really different.

^
THIS.
I made mistake on voodoo 5500 PCI with baking. Didn't end well.

P4SCE mobo/prescott p4 3ghz/4gb ddr1 in dual channel voodoo 3000 PCI @187mhz
3dfx ref. drivers / win98se with memory patch to boot with 4gb(1gb used)
dual boot with winXP-32 bit running amigasport 3.0 3dfx drivers

Reply 15 of 23, by Con 2 botones

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Sorry for the delay and thank you very much to you all for the feedback! Busy days, but reporting back now.

Ok, no baking then...

Tests carried out:
- I replaced the (unmodified, original) thermal solution with Artic Cooling MX4, following "Vaudane" advice. Nothing changed...

- I tried what suggested by "Roy Batty", using "Voodoo Control" I downclocked the GPU core and RAM to its minimum allowed (that tool won´t let you modify Core and Ram separately) Didn´t notice any difference.
Still getting "artifacts" and patterns of image corruption:

Down-Clock.jpg

- Lowered resolution, color depth and refresh rate (from 75hz to 60hz). Problem persists

Corruption.jpg

Corruption-B.jpg

Corruption-C.jpg

Corruption-D.jpg

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some things to notice:
- I ran a Direct Draw (dxdiag) test and it finished correctly. But when I ran the Direct3D one it crashed.
- Half Life (OpenGL) executes and shows no corruption. When I tried to switch it to DirectX mode, it crashed.
- Most DOS games I tried (QuakeGL, DukeNukem3D, DoomII) execute with almost no curruption (although Epic Pinball does show some "broken pixels"). Nevertheless, tried Expendable and it starts loading but never starts playing. Dethcarz or POD won´t even start loading.
Diablo and Dune 2000 played perfectly with no image corruption.

DoomII.jpg

Inspecting visually the card, I don´t see anything bad in the front side. In the rear, on the other hand, I did notice a small "scratch" that crosses some bus lines, doesn´t seem deep enough though. What´s your opinion?
I´m not sure if the scratch was there before when the card worked perfectly. Frankly, I don´t recall any move that may have caused it either.
Do you think it may have something to do. Could it be repaired?

Front.jpg

SacrathA.jpg

ScartchB.jpg

Reply 16 of 23, by Intel486dx33

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Looks like a driver issue. Did you try a clean install first before you try anything else ?
But definitely don't bake the card.
Could be a Voodoo card memory chip solder issue but I don't think so. Looks more like a driver issue.
If it does not artifact in post or DOS mode then it's a driver issue.
Perform a clean install of the OS and then a clean install of the Voodoo 3 3000 driver.

Reply 17 of 23, by appiah4

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Some questions:

1. Are there corruptions in BIOS or in real DOS mode, ie. without loading any Windows drivers?
2. Have you tried booting something like a live linux distro such as Puppy Linux 4.1.2 Retro to see if that works fine?
3. Is this a clean Windows install or was there a different graphics card in there before?

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 18 of 23, by Con 2 botones

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
Intel486dx33 wrote:
Looks like a driver issue. Did you try a clean install first before you try anything else ? But definitely don't bake the card. […]
Show full quote

Looks like a driver issue. Did you try a clean install first before you try anything else ?
But definitely don't bake the card.
Could be a Voodoo card memory chip solder issue but I don't think so. Looks more like a driver issue.
If it does not artifact in post or DOS mode then it's a driver issue.
Perform a clean install of the OS and then a clean install of the Voodoo 3 3000 driver.

It does artifact in DOS mode as shown in the Doom II picture above, but to a less extent. Duke Nukem 3D also shows some corruption in the menu.

I could try a fresh install in the near future, but I doubt it is a case of drivers, because it was tested in another PC and it exhibits the same behaviour.
Moreover, the whole thing started after a hot day, doing some test with a Pentium II based micro ATX chassis (with bad air flow)...I definitely shouldn´t have used it that day.

Thank you!

Last edited by Con 2 botones on 2019-11-28, 12:48. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 19 of 23, by Con 2 botones

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
appiah4 wrote:
Some questions: […]
Show full quote

Some questions:

1. Are there corruptions in BIOS or in real DOS mode, ie. without loading any Windows drivers?
2. Have you tried booting something like a live linux distro such as Puppy Linux 4.1.2 Retro to see if that works fine?
3. Is this a clean Windows install or was there a different graphics card in there before?

1. Corruption does not happen in BIOS, so far. I think I haven´t tried real DOS Mode, will try and report back.
2. That´s a very good idea!
3. The latter, other cards have been tested in the system (Ati Rage 128, for instance). Point 2 test will tell us if it is a driver issue or not.

Thank you!