VOGONS


Reply 40 of 69, by PCBONEZ

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This is why you write it out in a standard format - doesn't have to be MY standard, just any.

Nichicon HD 1500uF 6.3v 10x20mm ESR= 0.023 Ω Ripple= 1820 mA
Panny . FS 1500uF 6.3v 10x12.5mm ESR= 0.043 Ω Ripple= 1290 mA

ESR is twice as high, Ripple is way too low.
That ESR is far enough off the original that the board may be unstable.

Rubycon YXG 1000uF 6.3v 8x16mm ESR= 0.087 Ω Ripple= 840 mA
Panny FS datasheet does not show an 8mm 1000uF so I dunno what you are looking at.
.

Last edited by PCBONEZ on 2020-01-01, 06:11. Edited 2 times in total.

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Reply 41 of 69, by PCBONEZ

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RoyBatty wrote on 2020-01-01, 05:44:

I'm in the USA, western midwest.

Mouser, Digikey, Newark or if you want Suncon BDent.
Do you have a preference?

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Reply 43 of 69, by PCBONEZ

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Usually yes.
Newark does do some in small quantity and they occasionally have sales where they mark things down drastically.
I bought 100's of FP-Cap polys from them for 5 to 8 cents each a while back and had the same price down to 1pc.

My normal choice is Mouser too.
.
I have a different FS datasheet then. Where did you get yours?
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Reply 44 of 69, by PCBONEZ

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They still make the HD series so that one is easy.
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Nichicon … 252BMJ3K6644%3D

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Reply 45 of 69, by gdjacobs

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Panny FM and FR are close to the same ESR at that size and voltage if you want to stick with one line of lytics.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 46 of 69, by PCBONEZ

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Some of the small ones are between the slots.
It's best to keep those short so they don't interfere with components on cards that go into the slots.

[OLD] Rubycon YXG 1000uF 6.3v 8x16mm ESR= 0.087 Ω Ripple= 840 mA
[NEW] Panasonic FR 1000uF 6.3v 8x11.5mm ESR= 0.056 Ω Ripple= 950 mA

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasoni … 9TgyQImxUNvk%3D
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Reply 47 of 69, by PCBONEZ

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gdjacobs wrote on 2020-01-01, 06:42:

Panny FM and FR are close to the same ESR at that size and voltage if you want to stick with one line of lytics.

Yes both of those see lots of use on P3 boards, especially for the general (non-VRM) caps.
FM is a very old series.
FR was spun-off FM a few years ago as a downsized version. (smaller cans for the ripple/ESR)
They didn't keep all the uF-volts combinations the same so sometimes you have to bounce back and forth between them to find what will work.
.

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Reply 48 of 69, by PCBONEZ

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Sorry gdjacobs, I read it wrong the first time. Good eye!

This FM is an upgrade over the original HD
Nichicon HD 1500uF 6.3v 10x20mm ESR= 0.023 Ω Ripple= 1820 mA
Panny . . FM 1500uF 6.3v 10x20mm ESR= 0.019 Ω Ripple= 2180 mA
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasoni … fDav86wrWJgY%3D

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Reply 49 of 69, by gdjacobs

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Looking at the YXGs:
Rubycon YXG 1000uF 6.3v 8x16mm ESR= 0.087 Ω Ripple= 840 mA

Panny FC series doesn't have a great match at 8mm diameter. Closest without going underspec is probably:
Panny FC 1000uF 6.3V 8x20 ESR = 0.065 Ω IRip = 995 mA

Pretty much the same story with Nichicon PW. Nichicon UHE looks like a good fit, although I'm not familiar with that series.
Nichicon UHE 1000uF 6.3V 8x15 ESR = 0.087 Ω IRip = 840 mA

Mouser has both those and new YXGs in stock, but the Nichicons are little less expensive. Nichicon wins, I think.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 50 of 69, by RoyBatty

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I got my datasheet from Mouser.

Well the UHD are exact match so that's a no brainer. I'm not finding something suitable for the 1000uf tho, they are either too tall or out of spec. I think they are only 10mm or 11.5mm tall, I'll measure them later.

Thanks for all your help on this.

Reply 51 of 69, by PCBONEZ

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Did my posts last night go into an abyss on the way here?
After fireworks woke us up I posted all you need to know for that board before returning to bed.
.

RoyBatty wrote on 2020-01-01, 16:05:

I got my datasheet from Mouser.

That's the same datasheet I saw before.
FS has no 8mm 1000uF at 6.3v or 10v

RoyBatty wrote on 2020-01-01, 16:05:

I'm not finding something suitable for the 1000uf tho, they are either too tall or out of spec.

That's what this was.
Lower ESR = an upgrade
Higher Ripple = an upgrade

PCBONEZ wrote on 2020-01-01, 06:52:

[OLD] Rubycon YXG 1000uF 6.3v 8x16mm ESR= 0.087 Ω Ripple= 840 mA
[NEW] Panasonic FR 1000uF 6.3v 8x11.5mm ESR= 0.056 Ω Ripple= 950 mA
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasoni … 9TgyQImxUNvk%3D

Either HD or FM will do for the 10mm 1500uF.
This FM is an upgrade over the original HD

PCBONEZ wrote on 2020-01-01, 06:52:

Nichicon HD 1500uF 6.3v 10x20mm ESR= 0.023 Ω Ripple= 1820 mA
Panny . . FM 1500uF 6.3v 10x20mm ESR= 0.019 Ω Ripple= 2180 mA
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasoni … fDav86wrWJgY%3D

RoyBatty wrote on 2020-01-01, 16:05:

I think they are only 10mm or 11.5mm tall, I'll measure them later.

The max height to clear slots is 8x11.5mm by unofficial convention.
That's why so many major brand series have that can size.

The 10x12.5mm exist to fit under CPU heatsinks.
.
Changing a can size is a non-issue so long as the specs are good, it fits the space and the lead spacing is still correct.
8mm usually have 3.5mm lead-space and 10mm usually have 5mm lead-space but there are exceptions.
Some PCB have extra holes to use either/or 3.5mm 5mm lead spacing.

The original caps were chosen well on that board so upgrades aren't actually needed but if you ever overclock it can give more stability at higher FSB than original.
Also can THEORETICALLY help harden the system against the effects of other non-cap components aging. Can't really measure that.
.

Last edited by PCBONEZ on 2020-01-01, 19:34. Edited 10 times in total.

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Reply 52 of 69, by PCBONEZ

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gdjacobs wrote on 2020-01-01, 10:41:
Looking at the YXGs: Rubycon YXG 1000uF 6.3v 8x16mm ESR= 0.087 Ω Ripple= 840 mA […]
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Looking at the YXGs:
Rubycon YXG 1000uF 6.3v 8x16mm ESR= 0.087 Ω Ripple= 840 mA

Panny FC series doesn't have a great match at 8mm diameter. Closest without going underspec is probably:
Panny FC 1000uF 6.3V 8x20 ESR = 0.065 Ω IRip = 995 mA

Pretty much the same story with Nichicon PW. Nichicon UHE looks like a good fit, although I'm not familiar with that series.
Nichicon UHE 1000uF 6.3V 8x15 ESR = 0.087 Ω IRip = 840 mA

Mouser has both those and new YXGs in stock, but the Nichicons are little less expensive. Nichicon wins, I think.

Those will work fine too.
The 1000uF scattered about are easy to find replacements for.

PW is a very very old series sometimes seen in VRM on PII. (Same-same with panny FC.)
All the Nichicon P_ are old series and at least some were/are certified for use in medical equipment and/or what is now called "First Responder" communication gear which is probably the biggest reason they are still around.
.

GRUMPY OLD FART - On Hiatus, sort'a
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Reply 53 of 69, by Horun

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Here is one I need to replace 6 of 10mm x 30mm : FUHJYYU TMR 2200uf 16v has 1850mA ripple and Z = 0.030, no ESR given in TM datasheet, designated as Low-Z
Found these Low-Z: Pana EEu-FK1C222L 2200uf 16v 2140mA ripple and Z = 0.025. In stock at Mouser. The EEU-FS1C222L would probably be a better replacement but out of stock and 15 week lead time..
What do you think ? The diameter can not exceed 10mm due to clearances, 8mm would be better, height is not an issue.

Hate posting a reply and have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. 🤣 Second computer a 286 12Mhz with real IDE drive ! After that came 386, 486, Pentium, P.Pro and everything after....

Reply 54 of 69, by PCBONEZ

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Ah, the infamous F*k-YU caps as we call them.
One of the top 5 competitors for the title of: "Worst Capacitors Ever Made".

Just FYI. TMR is basically an OEM channel version of TM. Those marked just TM were sold through retail channels.
(I might have that exactly backwards but you get the idea.)
They are the same caps and have the same specs.

Effectively Z = ESR at 100kHz so in datasheets they spec at 100kHz and use the terms interchangeably.
That isn't technically 100% correct but it's so close the difference doesn't matter.

The FK you're looking at is a good choice.
In fact that's the one I usually get to replace TM, especially in PSUs.

2200uF 16v and a good ESR/Ripple for PSUs ~in 10mm~ is commonly needed in PSUs and is a though size to find.
You might want to pick up a few extra if you rework PSUs very often.
Until recently Newark was the only place that sold Panny FK on my side of the pond.
.

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Reply 55 of 69, by gdjacobs

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Hey, Bonez. What sort of tolerance do you generally use when sorting caps into "grades" by ESR or when matching? I would expect +/- 10% is fine as it'll be consistent with variance in other component parameters, but would you consider +/- 20% to be close enough for functional equivalence?

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 56 of 69, by Horun

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PCBONEZ wrote on 2020-01-02, 05:11:
Just FYI. TMR is basically an OEM channel version of TM. Those marked just TM were sold through retail channels. (I might have t […]
Show full quote

Just FYI. TMR is basically an OEM channel version of TM. Those marked just TM were sold through retail channels.
(I might have that exactly backwards but you get the idea.)
They are the same caps and have the same specs.

Effectively Z = ESR at 100kHz so in datasheets they spec at 100kHz and use the terms interchangeably.
That isn't technically 100% correct but it's so close the difference doesn't matter.

The FK you're looking at is a good choice.
In fact that's the one I usually get to replace TM, especially in PSUs.

2200uF 16v and a good ESR/Ripple for PSUs ~in 10mm~ is commonly needed in PSUs and is a though size to find.
You might want to pick up a few extra if you rework PSUs very often.
Until recently Newark was the only place that sold Panny FK on my side of the pond.
.

Thanks ! Will order 20 in case I need more in the future, really hate working on PSU though, they have such tight space to work in 🙁

Hate posting a reply and have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. 🤣 Second computer a 286 12Mhz with real IDE drive ! After that came 386, 486, Pentium, P.Pro and everything after....

Reply 57 of 69, by gdjacobs

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Horun wrote on 2020-01-02, 17:21:

Thanks ! Will order 20 in case I need more in the future, really hate working on PSU though, they have such tight space to work in 🙁

Uncrate them if they need board work.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 58 of 69, by Mad_Wolf

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Hello all
I read all the topic and I need some help 😀
I own also a tuv4x and had some bad caps at the top near the cpu socket. They were like 6-7 bad caps.
I went to an electrician and he changed all the bad caps with some random brand or maybe unbranded.
Also the values of the caps are 2 different types. 4 of them have the same value of the original ones(6.3v 1500uf) but 3 of them are 1800uf 16v.
The board always crashes and gives cpu voltage error or something like that.

Because of that I think that the problem is related to the caps and will replace the caps.
I live in Turkey and dont have much options other than aliexpress for buying the caps.
So can you please suggest me caps for the 2 main cap recapping the 1500uf 6.3v and 1000uf 6.3v ones.

Can I use these ?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32572498118.h … .3173497eQTcg2h

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000828682746 … .47603d62ypqDMz

Thanks a lot

Reply 59 of 69, by Mad_Wolf

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PCBONEZ wrote on 2020-01-02, 05:11:
Ah, the infamous F*k-YU caps as we call them. One of the top 5 competitors for the title of: "Worst Capacitors Ever Made". […]
Show full quote

Ah, the infamous F*k-YU caps as we call them.
One of the top 5 competitors for the title of: "Worst Capacitors Ever Made".

Just FYI. TMR is basically an OEM channel version of TM. Those marked just TM were sold through retail channels.
(I might have that exactly backwards but you get the idea.)
They are the same caps and have the same specs.

Effectively Z = ESR at 100kHz so in datasheets they spec at 100kHz and use the terms interchangeably.
That isn't technically 100% correct but it's so close the difference doesn't matter.

The FK you're looking at is a good choice.
In fact that's the one I usually get to replace TM, especially in PSUs.

2200uF 16v and a good ESR/Ripple for PSUs ~in 10mm~ is commonly needed in PSUs and is a though size to find.
You might want to pick up a few extra if you rework PSUs very often.
Until recently Newark was the only place that sold Panny FK on my side of the pond.
.

Bonez can you help me please 😀