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First post, by 1ST1

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Hello, I am new to here. Maybe someone can help me to fix that?

I have some trouble with my Olivetti SNX140/S system regarding SCSI cards and Windows 2000 (SP4). The SNX140/S is a medium size tower PC originally designed as a small office server. So it has Pentium 166 CPU, PCI+EISA bus (3PCI+3EISA slots, one of each shared), 32 MB RAM (expandable to 256 MB), onboard AIC-7850 PCI SCSI controller (I think thats the same as a AHA-2940) and onboard Trident PCI VGA card with 512 kB RAM.

There are three PCI cards installed, a 2 channel VIA USB 2.0 card, an 100 MBit Intel chipset based network card, and a Weitek P9100 based VGA card with 4 MB VRAM, the onboard is disabled. Aditionally I have added a Soundblaster 16 Vibra PNP ISA card (in EISA slot) which is automatically detected and configured by EISA setup and Windows 2000.

To be able to connect external SCSI devices without having trouble with the internal SCSI bus (it has external connector) I grabbed from my boxes some EISA SCSI controllers and added one of them to the only free EISA slot. EISA setup is fine as long as one has the correct CFG file (and I have a large collection of CFG files). I tryed Adaptec 1740 Early revision and a later version of 1740 (they share the same CFG, but one is just displayed as a 1740, the other as a "1740 Early revision" in EISA setup), and I have tryed a AHA 2740 (single channel version). I always use the latest CFG file I have, they are from 1994. They are detected by EISA setup and configured well. As long as I select to enable their BIOS, they also appear while BIOS POST and tell that BIOS is not installed due to no drive connected (that's right). But I disable because their BIOS appears before the onboard AIC-7850 BIOS and I always want the internal harddisk to be the boot device. Enable/disable BIOS does not change anything on my problem.

The problem is that Windows 2000 does not dected any of the tryed EISA SCSI controllers (I have 3x 1740 early revision, 4x 1740, 1x 2740). There is even no unkown device in device manager, just nothing. All other cards are detected and operational.

Later on I will repeat the test with a Olivetti-customized 2740 dual channel and a Tekram DC810 EISA cache controller (AHA 1542 compatible on OS driver level) and maybe a AHA-1540 and 1542C. But I am not shur if that changes anything, but I would prefer to have one of the 1740 or the 2740 single channel in that SNX machine, the DC810 and the 2740 dual channel ist reserved fo another EISA machine (Olivetti LSX-5020)

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SNX 140/s with Windows 2000 on Weitek P9100 VGA card
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Adaptec 1740 (top) and 1740 Early Revision (bottom)
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1740 installed
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1740 EISA setup
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Reply 1 of 27, by 1ST1

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2740 installed
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2740 EISA setup
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Windows 2000 Device Manager, no EISA SCSI card detected
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As you can see, EISA setup detects them, but they are not visible in Windows 2000 device manager.

Any idea?

Reply 2 of 27, by jaZz_KCS

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Just out of nothing: Are the (if applicable) ChipSet drivers installed, to ensure that Win2k does handle the integrated peripherals correctly? And what else comes to mind... a la EZ-SCSI and ASPI driver.

Reply 3 of 27, by CoffeeOne

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1ST1 wrote on 2020-01-26, 11:28:

The problem is that Windows 2000 does not dected any of the tryed EISA SCSI controllers (I have 3x 1740 early revision, 4x 1740, 1x 2740). There is even no unkown device in device manager, just nothing. All other cards are detected and operational.

I would try to connect at least one SCSI drive to the controller and of course enabling the bios. Then check, if Windows 2000 detects something.
But I am not sure, if Windows 2000 supports the Adaptec 27xx cards and 17xx cards. As a last resort you could try to load/install Windows NT drivers manually.

Reply 4 of 27, by 1ST1

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The chipset of the SNX 140/s is Intel Trition. I think that's old enough for Windows 2000 to be fully supported. I already installed the latest ASPI packet from Adaptec . I have had a look for EZSCSI package, but the latest I cound find (on vogonsdriver.com) was from 1998 for DOS and Win 9x. This does not match to 2000.

Meanwhie I also tryed an Olivetti-Adaptec dual channel EISA SCSI controller, a Tekram DC810 EISA-Cache SCSI controller (driver compatible to Adaptec 1540) and an Olivetti ESC-1 SCSI controller (from Olivetti LSX 5020 486-EISA "computing platform". None of them appears on device manager.

I will now try an Adaptec 1540CF ISA card, that's better than no 2nd SCSI channel.

Reply 6 of 27, by CoffeeOne

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Did you read my message?
As far as I know, NO eisa card will be detected automatically by Windows 2000. Maybe it will be detected when you install the operating system newly.
Microsoft removed EISA support in Windows 2000.
I think the highest chance you have with the Adaptec 2740 card. Try installing Windows NT drivers (not Windows 9x or DOS stuff of course).
When you try to add manually "Add hardware" (non plug and play) in Windows 2000, do you see any Adaptec controllers or AIC-7700?

Reply 8 of 27, by CoffeeOne

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1ST1 wrote on 2020-01-26, 18:18:

That's interesting... Where to get the NT drivers?

Yes, if I add hardware, there are Adaptec controllers on choice, but only ISA and PCI. Anyhow, also the 1540CF has not been detected (automatically).

http://vogonsdrivers.com/getfile.php?fileid=8 … &menustate=35,0
Try that. 2 floppy disks, there is a setup.exe on disk 1.
That is the already mentioned EZ SCSI for Windows.

So there is no built-in Adaptec 7770? (That's the chip used on the EISA 274x and VLB 284x controllers)? Too bad.
EDIT: typo corrected

UPDATE, I looked into the zip file: When that works under Windows 2000 (not sure, officially only for NT 4.0)
then it would support the 274x, 154x AND the 174x series.
Can't test it, I don't have Windows 2000 running on a machine.

Reply 10 of 27, by hyoenmadan

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Win2000 PC HAL is Triton EISA aware as far as I know. There would be a problem with Windows Kernel Firmware Mapper or the ISAPnP.sys component due a BIOS incompatibility with Windows 2000. Maybe you would like to try first with a Windows 9x version like 98SE to see if the behavior is replicated. Win9x comes with a better Firmware Mapper than Win2k (that component is one of the few was ported from 9x to NT) and also a built in ICU (ISA resource configuration utility logic). If works in 9x, then you can try to diagnose the problem trying to update from 9x to Win2000.

Reply 11 of 27, by CoffeeOne

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1ST1 wrote on 2020-01-26, 19:56:

I tryed that EZSCSI 5 but it's too old, 2000 does not accept the drivers. Is there a ETSCSI 6 anywhere?

As last try, you can install the ASPI layer (with the Adaptec card installed)

https://ask.adaptec.com/app/answers/detail/a_ … ows-be-found%3F

and then reboot, and then search for new hardware under windows 2000

Reply 12 of 27, by CoffeeOne

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hyoenmadan wrote on 2020-01-26, 20:33:

Win2000 PC HAL is Triton EISA aware as far as I know. There would be a problem with Windows Kernel Firmware Mapper or the ISAPnP.sys component due a BIOS incompatibility with Windows 2000. Maybe you would like to try first with a Windows 9x version like 98SE to see if the behavior is replicated. Win9x comes with a better Firmware Mapper than Win2k (that component is one of the few was ported from 9x to NT) and also a built in ICU (ISA resource configuration utility logic). If works in 9x, then you can try to diagnose the problem trying to update from 9x to Win2000.

That's a weird advice, because he wants to run Windows 2000, we all know that those cards (Adaptec 174x, Adaptec 274x, ...) will work (I have 2 such machines) under Windows 98SE.

I know you wanted to say, that he could test the hardware by trying Windows 98SE. So it has a point.

But the more I think about it:

What are you doing? Windows 2000 with 32MB RAM??? I overlooked that.
Are you serious. 128MB is really necessary to run Win2k in a smooth way. With 32MB you just have the double amount from the absolute minimum to run Windows 98SE, which is 16MB.
I remember, a friend of mine tried to install Win2k on a machine with only 64MB RAM, it worked, but it took forever.

So how much time does it take to boot? 5 minutes or more? With only 32MB it starts swapping at the very beginning.

So install either Windows 98SE or Windows NT 4.0 to check, if everything works.
You can try then Win2k, too, but before please upgrade the RAM to 128MB or 256MB.

Reply 13 of 27, by eisapc

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CoffeeOne wrote on 2020-01-26, 16:39:

As far as I know, NO eisa card will be detected automatically by Windows 2000. Maybe it will be detected when you install the operating system newly.
Microsoft removed EISA support in Windows 2000.

Definitely not true, I installed 2K on quite a number of EISA systems and they were fully supported.
Microsoft dropped EISA (and MCA) support for OSs released after W2K afaik.
eisapc

Reply 14 of 27, by 1ST1

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CoffeeOne wrote on 2020-01-27, 07:05:

What are you doing? Windows 2000 with 32MB RAM??? I overlooked that.

Memory in that machine can be expanded iu to 256 MB, and until now the PC runs quite Ok, Windows task manager displays that there is still some free memory. Getting memory is a task I plan when I get the machine full running with W2k, that means EISA cards are running. I will now try if it detects an EISA network card, I have 2 of them (a Cogent and a 3Com) .

Reply 15 of 27, by hyoenmadan

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CoffeeOne wrote on 2020-01-27, 07:05:

That's a weird advice, because he wants to run Windows 2000, we all know that those cards (Adaptec 174x, Adaptec 274x, ...) will work (I have 2 such machines) under Windows 98SE.

Isn't about the cards, is about the board and how the BIOS/Firmware manages the cards and EISA bus resources. Back in the day when Win2k was new, there were incompatibilities which only show in Win2k because the way how different the HAL, ISAPnP module and Kernel manages BIOS and firmware/nvram eisa extended data from any Win9x based OS. Testing the system with a VxD based windows as Win95 or 98 would point if the problem is due a physical damage in the board, or actually there is an incompatibility between BIOS and the Win2k HAL or NTkernel components, if the cards are detected and work fine in the 9x installation.

Reply 16 of 27, by CoffeeOne

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eisapc wrote on 2020-01-27, 08:56:
Definitely not true, I installed 2K on quite a number of EISA systems and they were fully supported. Microsoft dropped EISA (and […]
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CoffeeOne wrote on 2020-01-26, 16:39:

As far as I know, NO eisa card will be detected automatically by Windows 2000. Maybe it will be detected when you install the operating system newly.
Microsoft removed EISA support in Windows 2000.

Definitely not true, I installed 2K on quite a number of EISA systems and they were fully supported.
Microsoft dropped EISA (and MCA) support for OSs released after W2K afaik.
eisapc

True, "removed EISA support" is wrong.
I referred to this:
https://books.google.at/books?id=kYT7gKnwUQ8C … drivers&f=false
"Classic NT included hardware drivers for 486, EISA and MCA machines. These are not included in Windows 2000".
So EISA cards work under Windows 2000, but there are restrictions.
I read some articles about HP servers with EISA cards and Windows 2000 Server.

Reply 17 of 27, by CoffeeOne

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1ST1 wrote on 2020-01-27, 18:15:
CoffeeOne wrote on 2020-01-27, 07:05:

What are you doing? Windows 2000 with 32MB RAM??? I overlooked that.

Memory in that machine can be expanded iu to 256 MB, and until now the PC runs quite Ok, Windows task manager displays that there is still some free memory. Getting memory is a task I plan when I get the machine full running with W2k, that means EISA cards are running. I will now try if it detects an EISA network card, I have 2 of them (a Cogent and a 3Com) .

https://kb.iu.edu/d/ahsa
So recommended minimum is 64MB. The CPU is also "borderline" slow 😀
With 32MB even NT4.0 is probably not the best choice, if you like the NT-series, go with NT 3.51

You did not answer my question, I am curious, how long does it take to boot Windows 2000 (from Bios until you can open a program)?

Reply 19 of 27, by CoffeeOne

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1ST1 wrote on 2020-01-27, 18:15:
CoffeeOne wrote on 2020-01-27, 07:05:

What are you doing? Windows 2000 with 32MB RAM??? I overlooked that.

Memory in that machine can be expanded iu to 256 MB, and until now the PC runs quite Ok, Windows task manager displays that there is still some free memory. Getting memory is a task I plan when I get the machine full running with W2k, that means EISA cards are running. I will now try if it detects an EISA network card, I have 2 of them (a Cogent and a 3Com) .

Were you successful with the EISA network card installation?
At least 3Com 3C579 cards and 3C509 ISA in EISA mode should be supported by Windows 2000.