The newest VIA socket-A chipset based boards that have ISA have the KT-133A chipset and I know of no boards that had the P4 12V connector.

The only Socket A/462 board I know of that supports DDR and has ISA is the Biostar M7MIA. Northbridge is AMD760 and Southbridge is VIA. Still no 4-pin power connector.

Hm, that's unfortunate. I think I might have to pass up on the ISA slot and go with a S939 board instead.
For this build I'm limited in my PSU options to one with the following key specs:

I don't think I would have any chance of stable operation even when using a 35W Athlon XP-M with that board?
I intend to use a Voodoo5 5500 & Voodoo 2 PCI + Aureal Vortex 2 + AWE32 in that prospective build. I think Voodoo5 draws it's power from the 5V rail as well, in which case I can probably forget it.

Why are you limited to those PSU specs? Guessing the case uses a proprietary power supply?

You could always look at getting an industrial socket 478 board that has agp/PCI/ISA. It just needs to have an ite8888 pci-isa bridge chip to have full ISA support.

They aren't cheap... For the voodoo5, you could either mod the agp slot for the correct voltage and cut the AGP slot divider or you could get an agp to PCI adapter that works with the 3dfx cards.

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-03-05, 20:56:

Why are you limited to those PSU specs? Guessing the case uses a proprietary power supply?

You could always look at getting an industrial socket 478 board that has agp/PCI/ISA. It just needs to have an ite8888 pci-isa bridge chip to have full ISA support.

They aren't cheap... For the voodoo5, you could either mod the agp slot for the correct voltage and cut the AGP slot divider or you could get an agp to PCI adapter that works with the 3dfx cards.

It is indeed a proprietary power supply!
And yes, I hadn't really considered it before, but I guess S478 would also be an option. Do you happen to know if all the engineering samples of Pentium 4 CPUs come with unlocked multiplier, or is that very much hit and miss? The ability to use unlocked CPUs is one of the main reasons I was interested in S462 & S939.

I don't have an engineering sample P4. From what I could find, they should all be unlocked though.

After that, it depends on the board supporting changing the multiplier or if there is a software utility that will do it.

Edit:
Apparently the Mobile Pentium 4 CPUs also have unlocked multipliers (advanced speedstep).

I just happen to have one of the 3.2Ghz ones... looked through my stash of 478 CPUs. Had no idea I even had it and also had no idea they are unlocked.

I am going to test in the board that just so happened to come with a case I bought for cheap-ish. Was super stoked when I got a $200+ board included with a case purchase when I wasn't expecting it.

Hopefully the BIOS lets me change the multiplier. If not, then I think the speed should be able to be changed with a utility in Windows.

Edit 2:
Well, after replacing the power supply which had a bunch of blown capacitors it works.

The BIOS sees that it is a Mobile Pentium 4, but there is no multiplier adjustment in the BIOS. Not surprising as this is an industrial board.
The POST screen says it is a Mobile Pentium 4 @ 3.19Ghz (228x14.0).. which makes no sense. It should say 266x12.0. Maybe the board or BIOS doesn't support anything below the 14x multiplier?

Going to install Windows XP and see what CPU-Z says and what I can do with the multiplier.

you could get an agp to PCI adapter that works with the 3dfx cards.

That adapter also works only on certain boards. Not every board will do.

Not surprising as this is an industrial board.

Industrial origin has nothing to do with it. Mobile Pentium 4 will always run with minimal available multiplier on a desktop board. It can't be changed.

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-03-06, 02:05:

I don't have an engineering sample P4. From what I could find, they should all be unlocked though. […]
Show full quote

I don't have an engineering sample P4. From what I could find, they should all be unlocked though.

After that, it depends on the board supporting changing the multiplier or if there is a software utility that will do it.

Edit:
Apparently the Mobile Pentium 4 CPUs also have unlocked multipliers (advanced speedstep).

I just happen to have one of the 3.2Ghz ones... looked through my stash of 478 CPUs. Had no idea I even had it and also had no idea they are unlocked.

I am going to test in the board that just so happened to come with a case I bought for cheap-ish. Was super stoked when I got a $200+ board included with a case purchase when I wasn't expecting it.

Hopefully the BIOS lets me change the multiplier. If not, then I think the speed should be able to be changed with a utility in Windows.

Edit 2:
Well, after replacing the power supply which had a bunch of blown capacitors it works.

The BIOS sees that it is a Mobile Pentium 4, but there is no multiplier adjustment in the BIOS. Not surprising as this is an industrial board.
The POST screen says it is a Mobile Pentium 4 @ 3.19Ghz (228x14.0).. which makes no sense. It should say 266x12.0. Maybe the board or BIOS doesn't support anything below the 14x multiplier?

Going to install Windows XP and see what CPU-Z says and what I can do with the multiplier.

Thanks for the effort 👍
As for the board you're using: is it the Diebold MBATX 845E that you recommended in another thread, the one with three isa slots?

I also had a heureka moment just the other day. I found out that apparently all Athlon 64 CPUs merely have a multiplier half-lock & can all be underclocked to 4x or 5x multiplier, in which case I went on the pointless journey of sourcing a specific FX chip. I wish we had an archive for this kind of information and I didn't have to scrape it from old posts of various pc forums.

And are you aware of any slowdown utilities that work well with S478?

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-03-06, 13:10:

That adapter also works only on certain boards. Not every board will do. […]
Show full quote

you could get an agp to PCI adapter that works with the 3dfx cards.

That adapter also works only on certain boards. Not every board will do.

Not surprising as this is an industrial board.

Industrial origin has nothing to do with it. Mobile Pentium 4 will always run with minimal available multiplier on a desktop board. It can't be changed.

You mean the adapter will only work in certain motherboards? Or you meant he adapter will only work with certain video cards? It should work with most 3dfx cards. The one I have is specifiacally made for 3dfx cards but is supposed to work with some other cards as well.

I was looking stuff up, and some boards do have a multiplier setting in the BIOS. May not be adjustable for the Mobile chips in the BIOS... but they at least were able to adjust between something and whatever the stock multiplier was. At least for the engineering sample chips.

There is nothing at all in the BIOS for this motherboard. It doesn't even list the multiplier.

Der Kuenringer wrote on 2020-03-06, 17:44:

Thanks for the effort 👍 As for the board you're using: is it the Diebold MBATX 845E that you recommended in another thread, the […]
Show full quote

Thanks for the effort 👍
As for the board you're using: is it the Diebold MBATX 845E that you recommended in another thread, the one with three isa slots?

I also had a heureka moment just the other day. I found out that apparently all Athlon 64 CPUs merely have a multiplier half-lock & can all be underclocked to 4x or 5x multiplier, in which case I went on the pointless journey of sourcing a specific FX chip. I wish we had an archive for this kind of information and I didn't have to scrape it from old posts of various pc forums.

And are you aware of any slowdown utilities that work well with S478?

The one ATX board I have is the Advantech AIMB-742. It only has 2 ISA slots but does have the 865G instead of the 845G chipset so it supports the 800 (400) fsb CPUs as well.

I do have another setup that I can test in as well.

You mean the adapter will only work in certain motherboards?

1) It works reliably only with 3dfx and some other old AGP 1x cards. Works with everything else, but unreliably, i.e. without drivers. Might work on some mobos with newer cards reliably, but it's a lottery.
2) 50/50 chance that particular motherboard model won't boot with that adapter at all. Chipset doesn't matter, I had negative experience with 430TX and positive with 440BX. Most likely some BIOS strings is what really matters.

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-03-06, 18:48:

The one ATX board I have is the Advantech AIMB-742. It only has 2 ISA slots but does have the 865G instead of the 845G chipset so it supports the 800 (400) fsb CPUs as well.

👀
Wowie! And that board just happened to find it's way into your lap by chance?
From the specs this does look like the most powerful option that will still work with ISA cards out of the box. I assume you tested that board with ISA soundcards?
Otherwise I only know of the AIMB-865 for Core 2 LGA775, but that one is only a viable option if you're willing to pay some russian guy $400 for the modified BIOS & slowdown utilities as well.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-03-06, 13:10:

Mobile Pentium 4 will always run with minimal available multiplier on a desktop board. It can't be changed.

Since you seem quite knowledgable about Pentium 4, do you happen to know about engineering samples and can you confirm that they all have unlocked multipliers?
Any experience with slowdown utilities on S478? I would like to know if utilities like Throttle might enable me to run 386 games like Wing Commander I on a platform like this, without speed issues.

Der Kuenringer wrote on 2020-03-06, 22:24:

👀 Wowie! And that board just happened to find it's way into your lap by chance? From the specs this does look like the most powe […]
Show full quote

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-03-06, 18:48:

The one ATX board I have is the Advantech AIMB-742. It only has 2 ISA slots but does have the 865G instead of the 845G chipset so it supports the 800 (400) fsb CPUs as well.

👀
Wowie! And that board just happened to find it's way into your lap by chance?
From the specs this does look like the most powerful option that will still work with ISA cards out of the box. I assume you tested that board with ISA soundcards?
Otherwise I only know of the AIMB-865 for Core 2 LGA775, but that one is only a viable option if you're willing to pay some russian guy $400 for the modified BIOS & slowdown utilities as well.

Yep... bought a case and it just so happened to have that motherboard installed. The company that I bought it from left the HDD in as well. But they destroyed it by smashing in the top cover and bending/breaking the IDE connector and power connector. They also jammed something into the CPU heatsink I guess in order to try to destroy the motherboard as well? Luckily it was a copper heatsink and the screwdriver or whatever didn't make it all the way through.

Also came with 2x Intel 10/100 PCI NICS. And to top it off, the model of the case was the same as the one I ordered, but it wasn't the same case that was in the pictures... and the pictures didn't show the back of the case. It was sold as just the case. Imagine my surprise when it arrived with the motherboard and other stuff in it.

I will be testing it with ISA sound cards. Almost 100% sure it will work find though as it has the IT8888 bridge chip and expected options in the BIOS.

Pretty sure there are a few other similar boards out there with the 865G chipset that also have full ISA support and maybe AGP.

I do have another S478 industrial setup with an 865G chipset. I think the BIOS has more options in it though. Pretty sure it lets me choose certain stock FSB settings... like 533 and 800 if I remember correctly. That is a PIAGP setup (SBC with AGP). The best backplanes available for it support AGP, PCI, and ISA. The backplane has to have an add-on PCI-ISA bridge module to support ISA.

I have tested that with an ISA sound card and it works fine. Need to do more testing with that though.

Wish I could actually find one of the LGA775 SBCs for that setup and see if it would actually work with a Pentium D... the manual only lists Pentium 4 and Celeron D support so not sure.

Since you seem quite knowledgable about Pentium 4, do you happen to know about engineering samples and can you confirm that they all have unlocked multipliers?

Engineering samples usually had unlocked multiplier, but it's hard to tell if all of them were unlocked.

Any experience with slowdown utilities on S478?

There's a DOS utility which can directly throttle Pentium 4 and Core 2.

I would like to know if utilities like Throttle might enable me to run 386 games like Wing Commander I on a platform like this, without speed issues.

Throttle works with south bridge ACPI. It doesn't matter which CPU you have.

So testing the Pentium 4 Mobile and it is indeed running at only the 14x multiplier.

Have been trying the different MSR programs to change the multiplier in Windows but nothing ever changes.

Maybe one will work in DOS?

Then again, I am not too sure that the regular Pentium 4 MSR addresses are what I need to use for the Pentium 4 Mobile and not finding any solid information about the Pentium 4 Mobile MSR addresses.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-03-08, 09:33:

Engineering samples usually had unlocked multiplier, but it's hard to tell if all of them were unlocked.
...
There's a DOS utility which can directly throttle Pentium 4 and Core 2.

And if I came in possession of an unlocked CPU - how would I go about changing the multiplier, if the board in question doesn't have any BIOS options for it?
Are there any utilities for that as well? The thread mentions only throttling for P4, and multiplier options with Core 2.

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-03-07, 02:27:

I will be testing it with ISA sound cards. Almost 100% sure it will work find though as it has the IT8888 bridge chip and expected options in the BIOS.

Please do keep me posted on your success with that! I've heard some reports about trouble with SFX playback, so I'm curious. I'm inclined to abandon the XP-M build, and snatch one of these boards myself, if you can get it to work.

if the board in question doesn't have any BIOS options for it

Then you're out of luck.