VOGONS


First post, by infiniteclouds

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I have a friend who is just not capable of PC gaming. Between the physical restrictions of sitting at a desk and just not being handy with technology at all he is exclusively a console gamer. He's an older guy, who enjoys his retro games more and more and I know for a fact there are certain games from the Windows 98 era that he would love to play that never got a console port. One great example would be Dark Forces II, where literally every other game in the series has a console release.

How difficult and expensive would it be to make a Windows 98 "console"? I really mean a PC, but with parts, software and peripherals chosen to make it almost indistinguishable from a game console. Having given it some occasional thought it would need....

1) Some kind of GUI/Interface for Windows 98 to launch into that would allow selection and direct booting into whatever games I were to install/configure on it. I would not expect him to be able to add new games with installation, patches and configuring that would be needed for it to use a....

2) Game controller. On my Windows 7 PC I've used XPadder to very successfully map just about anything that doesn't have native or very good controller support. Is there an XPadder that works with Windows 98? How good is it? It would need to be able to auto-launch at boot-up with the GUI overlay so that you wouldn't need to use a mouse/keyboard, ideally. On the hardware side of it would seem that the PS4 Dualshock controller somehow "just works" on Windows 98 based on another VOGONer's experience - wow.

3) TV-output. As a console gamer who still enjoys his 5th and 6th Gen games he has a CRT TV. Unlike, monitors this is going to restrict his resolution .... to what, 640x480? Can just about any card do this with an adapter -- or do it well? Is it easiest to get a card with S-Video out as I have seen? The ideal graphic card would be highly compatible and stable with games, allow for TV output, and if possible to 'have it all' feature the support for good anti-aliasing and the horsepower to use it in order to compensate for the lower resolution restrictions of using a TV. I suppose the other consideration would be sound output.

4) Form factor. Smaller is better and I don't care if it looks modern or not just that it would be functional. While it would be ideal to have something small I want to be able to use .....

5) The most stable components. A motherboard chipset and just a configuration overall that is almost likely to never see a BSOD.

Please share your thoughts or part recommendations. I know the lengths of suggested streamlining might sound stupid to people like us who love tinkering with shit as much as we do gaming but this fella just can't.

Reply 1 of 5, by leileilol

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2) Joy2Key used to be a very suggested mainstay of remapping programs. I never used it personally. Also some gamepads in the Win98 period shipped their own big configurator tool to remap keys (like InterAct)

3) Many video cards with TV out (svideo, composite etc) do sometimes support up to 1024x768........squished and filtered out to 480i. A lot of trial and error would be needed in this field as there's a lot of variance between manufacturers. I'm partial to the Voodoo3 and GeforceFX's TV outs for looking sharp (particuarly in custom-set 720x480 modes), but that's only in the context for capturing and would look super flickery on an actual TV. There's also sometimes bad luck with certain old VGA games. Probably the biggest problem for this is that unlike consoles, many PC games are not designed for the overscan areas of the TV in mind, so you're going to end up having to even squish 640x480 down lower to compensate for some huds to be visible, etc.

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long live PCem

Reply 2 of 5, by foil_fresh

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if he's only gonna press some buttons to load up games that you've already installed/configured then the desktop full of icons should suffice with the help of a joystick>mouse app.

maybe one of those desktop customiser overlays is available for w98, they are pretty robust in what they can do and how they can display - possibly some preset themes are around that mimick console OS menus. you would just install and configure the games, pointing them at an icon on the home screen/desktop. it can be resource intensive if the creator added too much fluff.

there are a few suitable thin clients from HP that can do early win98 games (phils computer lab has tried out a few) but i'd say a dell p4 or the likes in a desktop case would give you better options for expansion cards (low profile). the capacitors during this era may prove it difficult to find one in great condition.

you could even find an OG xbox shell, gut it, be nifty with raisers and spacers to mount a small ATX board system inside. its probably been done so there may be a guide on youtube/case modder forums/reddit etc.

Reply 3 of 5, by IlhanK

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I've build a fully 'consolized' Windows 10 gaming rig for my living room with a nice UI that is being controlled by gamepads as main input devices . From a user experience standpoint there are barely any differences compared to a proper console.

infiniteclouds wrote on 2020-03-07, 04:12:

How difficult and expensive would it be to make a Windows 98 "console"? I really mean a PC, but with parts, software and peripherals chosen to make it almost indistinguishable from a game console. Having given it some occasional thought it would need....

1) Some kind of GUI/Interface for Windows 98 to launch into that would allow selection and direct booting into whatever games I were to install/configure on it. I would not expect him to be able to add new games with installation, patches and configuring that would be needed for it to use a....

I've also looked a little bit into the possibility of adding a "console"-like retro PC into the living room but quickly abandoned the idea, since I didn't find any proper software solutions for that project. Back then I didn't find any dedicated Win98 game launcher/GUI.

infiniteclouds wrote on 2020-03-07, 04:12:

2) Game controller. On my Windows 7 PC I've used XPadder to very successfully map just about anything that doesn't have native or very good controller support. Is there an XPadder that works with Windows 98? How good is it? It would need to be able to auto-launch at boot-up with the GUI overlay so that you wouldn't need to use a mouse/keyboard, ideally. On the hardware side of it would seem that the PS4 Dualshock controller somehow "just works" on Windows 98 based on another VOGONer's experience - wow.

An old version of Joy2Key works but I don't remember if that old version had any command line support and/or automatic profile selection.

Some old Logitech gamepads came with their own profiler app with automatic profile selection feature: Logitech Gaming Software. Don't know if the software is compatible with Windows 98 though.

infiniteclouds wrote on 2020-03-07, 04:12:

3) TV-output. As a console gamer who still enjoys his 5th and 6th Gen games he has a CRT TV. Unlike, monitors this is going to restrict his resolution .... to what, 640x480? Can just about any card do this with an adapter -- or do it well? Is it easiest to get a card with S-Video out as I have seen? The ideal graphic card would be highly compatible and stable with games, allow for TV output, and if possible to 'have it all' feature the support for good anti-aliasing and the horsepower to use it in order to compensate for the lower resolution restrictions of using a TV. I suppose the other consideration would be sound output.

Some old AGP cards did have S-Video output. Just check your eBay.

TBH, you may have more success with building a Windows 10 "console". Nowadays there is a good selection of easy usable gaming GUIs for that OS (Steam Big Picture, Launchbox).

In my experience Windows 10 compatilibity has been very good even for old games. Nowadays a wide variety of helper apps exist to make old games run.

There are wrappers (e.g. dgvoodoo), compatiliby hookers (e.g. dxwnd), and emulators (e.g. dosbox) which allow even old PC games to run properly on Windows 10.

Steam Big Picture Mode, xpadder and Joy2Key allow to optimise your gamepad usability even for games only with limited joystick support or no support at all.

Reply 4 of 5, by zyga64

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Matrox G400 dual VGA can be directly connected to TV set via SCART. Here is schematics:

5602-scart-rgb-gif

Picture quality is quote good. I personally tested it in the past.
Source: https://www.vdr-portal.de/forum/index.php?thr … BCr-matrox-g400

1) VLSI SCAMP /286@20 /4M /CL-GD5422 /CMI8330
2) i420EX /486DX33 /16M /TGUI9440 /GUS+ALS100+MT32PI
3) i430FX /K6-2@400 /64M /Rage Pro PCI /ES1370+YMF718
4) i440BX /P!!!750 /256M /MX440 /SBLive!
5) iB75 /3470s /4G /HD7750 /HDA

Reply 5 of 5, by ragefury32

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infiniteclouds wrote on 2020-03-07, 04:12:
I have a friend who is just not capable of PC gaming. Between the physical restrictions of sitting at a desk and just not being […]
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I have a friend who is just not capable of PC gaming. Between the physical restrictions of sitting at a desk and just not being handy with technology at all he is exclusively a console gamer. He's an older guy, who enjoys his retro games more and more and I know for a fact there are certain games from the Windows 98 era that he would love to play that never got a console port. One great example would be Dark Forces II, where literally every other game in the series has a console release.

How difficult and expensive would it be to make a Windows 98 "console"? I really mean a PC, but with parts, software and peripherals chosen to make it almost indistinguishable from a game console. Having given it some occasional thought it would need....

1) Some kind of GUI/Interface for Windows 98 to launch into that would allow selection and direct booting into whatever games I were to install/configure on it. I would not expect him to be able to add new games with installation, patches and configuring that would be needed for it to use a....

2) Game controller. On my Windows 7 PC I've used XPadder to very successfully map just about anything that doesn't have native or very good controller support. Is there an XPadder that works with Windows 98? How good is it? It would need to be able to auto-launch at boot-up with the GUI overlay so that you wouldn't need to use a mouse/keyboard, ideally. On the hardware side of it would seem that the PS4 Dualshock controller somehow "just works" on Windows 98 based on another VOGONer's experience - wow.

3) TV-output. As a console gamer who still enjoys his 5th and 6th Gen games he has a CRT TV. Unlike, monitors this is going to restrict his resolution .... to what, 640x480? Can just about any card do this with an adapter -- or do it well? Is it easiest to get a card with S-Video out as I have seen? The ideal graphic card would be highly compatible and stable with games, allow for TV output, and if possible to 'have it all' feature the support for good anti-aliasing and the horsepower to use it in order to compensate for the lower resolution restrictions of using a TV. I suppose the other consideration would be sound output.

4) Form factor. Smaller is better and I don't care if it looks modern or not just that it would be functional. While it would be ideal to have something small I want to be able to use .....

5) The most stable components. A motherboard chipset and just a configuration overall that is almost likely to never see a BSOD.

Please share your thoughts or part recommendations. I know the lengths of suggested streamlining might sound stupid to people like us who love tinkering with shit as much as we do gaming but this fella just can't.

Eh, not that difficult at least from a hardware perspective...your challenge will be to hunt down something that would make it easy to deploy the Win98 games and present it on a "click here to begin" format, and to deal with a bunch of edge cases.

So as many of my forum members would've mentioned, yeah, a used HP thin client will do quite nicely here (I have a t5720 myself - those things are like tanks). You can also use an older laptop with an S-video port...something like a Thinkpad t42 with the Radeon 9600 GPU would be very inexpensive and should run Win98 decently (your challenge would be to hunt down the Centrino chipset / ATi video/audio drivers) . If you keep the lid closed it actually resembles an X-Box One (no, it really doesn’t). As for video output, S-Video should work but do keep in mind that analog TV has relatively low resolution, so navigating around it might be a pain - you'll need to scale everything down, and for certain games where you want as much screen real estate as possible for situational awareness (say..Age of Empires) it's not the best, really. For something like Quake 3 Arena the lower resolution actually works in your favor as it lowers your rendering workload.

As for controllers, probably anything bluetooth either via built-in Bluetooth OR with an external bluetooth dongle) and talks to DirectInput correctly would work. I use a bluetooth dongle with bluesoleil and various bluetooth controllers (Sony Dualshock 3 in my case).