Have you tried any scalers? Some have passhrough mode and simply convert analog to a digital HDMI signal and I've never had a problem on my TCL's with these stretching the image (but these are actual scalers and not just ADC's like your Hammerhead/HDFury clone).

I had a TCL 5 series TV hooked up to an OSSC, Framemeister XRGB-mini, and an Extron DSC 301 HD. Each one of those three scalers let me have a 4:3 ratio image on the TCL's (tried the TCL 6-Series in the living room as well but can't swear which exact systems I tried on that one). Granted I was using the scalers with mostly video game consoles, but consoles like Dreamcast, OG Xbox, and Xbox 360 can all output 640x480 (480p) RGBHV over VGA/DB15 as well, and I was still getting a 4:3 image on the TCL with those. The OSSC for example can linedouble those older 240pish DOS games (like 320x200, 320x240, 320x224, etc. modes) then do a multiplier on them as well (lagless too mind you!) to bring it up to 1080p-ish resolution at very close to the native resolution (I won't research computer use more though - again, my experience is mostly with consoles on these scalers, and I might be using too video game centric terminology and resolutions here as compared to what your DOS computer needs).

Dochartaigh wrote on 2020-03-29, 22:46:

Have you tried any scalers? Some have passhrough mode and simply convert analog to a digital HDMI signal and I've never had a problem on my TCL's with these stretching the image (but these are actual scalers and not just ADC's like your Hammerhead/HDFury clone).

I had a TCL 5 series TV hooked up to an OSSC, Framemeister XRGB-mini, and an Extron DSC 301 HD. Each one of those three scalers let me have a 4:3 ratio image on the TCL's (tried the TCL 6-Series in the living room as well but can't swear which exact systems I tried on that one). Granted I was using the scalers with mostly video game consoles, but consoles like Dreamcast, OG Xbox, and Xbox 360 can all output 640x480 (480p) RGBHV over VGA/DB15 as well, and I was still getting a 4:3 image on the TCL with those. The OSSC for example can linedouble those older 240pish DOS games (like 320x200, 320x240, 320x224, etc. modes) then do a multiplier on them as well (lagless too mind you!) to bring it up to 1080p-ish resolution at very close to the native resolution (I won't research computer use more though - again, my experience is mostly with consoles on these scalers, and I might be using too video game centric terminology and resolutions here as compared to what your DOS computer needs).

I am interested in a possible inexpensive scalar solution if it can force a 4:3 AR on the series 6 TCLs. I haven't tried any of them, so I am hoping to hear of one that works in a situation similar to mine.

There must be something about EGA/VGA resolutions that don't communicate well with the R625 sets, as 640x480 does work without stretching (at least in Windows 95, I haven't tried any hi-res modes in DOS yet.) There is also the smoothing issue, and I'm not sure if scalars can override the TV in that area.

Another option I am considering is a small projector, since I need a 4:3 square at such a low resolution, and have a screen that I can pull down or set up in front of my TV for when I want to play DOS games or Windows 3.x/early Win95 games/apps.

can you make these TVs work at 70Hz?

SPBHM wrote on 2020-03-30, 00:02:

can you make these TVs work at 70Hz?

Not that I know of. I am wondering if there is a DOS program for ATI Mach cards that allow different settings , such as Hz? I could have sworn that I used a DOS program for ATI cards, years ago, and that I could change settings in DOS..

Scythifuge wrote on 2020-03-30, 00:32:

SPBHM wrote on 2020-03-30, 00:02:

can you make these TVs work at 70Hz?

Not that I know of. I am wondering if there is a DOS program for ATI Mach cards that allow different settings , such as Hz? I could have sword that I used a DOS program for ATI cards, years ago, and that I could change settings in DOS..

Yes I remember there was a util called VGASET or something like that where you could set res and refresh id DOS on certain cards. Probably have the name wrong but you are right ! Maybe Phils or one of the archive sites like elhvb or oldskool has it.

Horun wrote on 2020-03-30, 01:24:

Scythifuge wrote on 2020-03-30, 00:32:

SPBHM wrote on 2020-03-30, 00:02:

can you make these TVs work at 70Hz?

Not that I know of. I am wondering if there is a DOS program for ATI Mach cards that allow different settings , such as Hz? I could have sword that I used a DOS program for ATI cards, years ago, and that I could change settings in DOS..

Yes I remember there was a util called VGASET or something like that where you could set res and refresh id DOS on certain cards. Probably have the name wrong but you are right ! Maybe Phils or one of the archive sites like elhvb or oldskool has it.

I'll keep searching, though I feel that I am going to have to move the system to another TV, buy a 21.3" 4:3 monitor, or try to find a decent, inexpensive projector that will work in lighted conditions. Or, just put everything in storage and stick with DOSBox and 86box, though I really don't want to do that, as it just isn't the same. I really wish that I could just turn off the smoothing and force 4:3 with this TV. Had I known this would have been an issue, I wouldn't have purchased the TV. This is the first one that I bought that has these issues.

Check this Vogons topic it might be listed: VESA Fix Utility Listing (for old video cards)
Have some chores to do will do some searching later....

Horun wrote on 2020-03-30, 02:26:

Check this Vogons topic it might be listed: VESA Fix Utility Listing (for old video cards)
Have some chores to do will do some searching later....

Thank you!

This ATI card has a composite output, and this series ^ TCL came with a composite connector. When using it, I get a 4:3 picture, but it is fuzzy and shaky. So the HDMI jacks are forcing 16:9 at anything under 640x480, even with picture size set to Auto or Direct.

That is because HDMI really only supports a minimum of 640x480. I am somewhat surprised that lower resolutions are even working.

See here - page 105-108:
http://bfiles.chinaaet.com/whpt/blog/20170919 … 36974850538.pdf

Sections 6.2 and 6.3 of the HDMI specifications for reference if this link dies at some point.

Anything lower is not guaranteed to work and the way it displays it on the screen will be completely up to how the scaler and the firmware is designed on the TV / monitor.

What you want is a scaler that is able to convert it to a correct HDMI signal and also be able to letterbox it to the proper aspect ratio.

Converting 70Hz to 60Hz is also needed but may end up having unintended consequences such as skipped frames depending on the program.

If you really wanted something that would work as intended, you would want a scaler that supports variable refresh rate monitors (freesync and G-Sync). That way you could get the correct refresh rate no matter what but I am pretty sure that no scalers that support variable refresh rate exist.

I wonder if a scaler that supports programmable resolutions and timings would be able to work with whatever refresh rate is set up to the max of what an adaptive sync monitor supports? Hmmm... that would be an interesting test.

Scythifuge wrote on 2020-03-29, 23:45:

I am interested in a possible inexpensive scalar solution if it can force a 4:3 AR on the series 6 TCLs. I haven't tried any of them, so I am hoping to hear of one that works in a situation similar to mine.

OSSC is considered the current best of the bunch and is around $175 USD. It's worth joining the below forum (link to exact topic below) if you have questions specific to your exact setup - I'm sure they can answer them all:

https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=52158