VOGONS


First post, by LaserBear

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Hello, new here

I’m excited to learn a little bit about older PC architecture and hopefully provide some fun for my kids and I.

I am definitely a novice at this stuff and was hoping this awesome community could help us out!

We recently picked up a gateway performance 600 for free!

Inside is a pentium 3 596mhz
Running Windows XP service pack 2
384 MB Ram
TnT2 32meg video card
Creative Labs CT4830 sound card
The HDD is a deskstar 20gb 7200rpm
DVD reader/writer drive
Compact disk drive
3.5 floppy drive
200w astec psu

The goal of the machine is to play 90’s games primarily. I want to be able to play original versions of half life and doom, sega PC games etc.

I have some questions and was hoping to get some assistance in bringing this machine to life for my kids and I.

I want to downgrade to windows 98, but I’m not sure what the best method in doing so is. I don’t have any software disks. I’m not sure where to get the correct drivers either.

The hdd is making a constant whining noise and the pc is extremely slow, sometimes not even responding when trying to open files and programs. I’m guessing the hdd needs to be replaced. I’d like to replace it with a small ssd if possible. But I’m not sure how to do that.

For now those are my only concerns. Would definitely like to hear your thoughts. Thank you!

Reply 1 of 8, by dionb

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First off: welcome! And nice machine you got there 😀

Now, as for those questions:

I want to downgrade to windows 98, but I’m not sure what the best method in doing so is. I don’t have any software disks. I’m not sure where to get the correct drivers either.

Good news: this machine predates Windows XP, in fact it would have been shipped with Windows 98SE. So there definitely are drivers for all components.

Windows 98SE needs installation media and a valid product key. Microsoft no longer sells it, but you might find original disks. You needn't worry about keys no longer being valid, there was no online activation in 98 days to prevent re-use.

For drivers, get them all together before installation. Back in the day I burnt them onto a CD. These days I'd use either a CF-card with CF-to-IDE adapter, or a spare hard disk formated to FAT16 or 32 (DOS/Win98 file systems). Hook that up alongside the main hard disk while installing and you're good to go.

Of course you need to know which ones you need. For that, look at the chips. You don't mention the most vital component of the system: the motherboard. If it's an i440BX-based board (check the big square chips - if they say "Intel" you're in luck), drivers are included in Win98SE installation. If it's a Via chipset board, you need separate Via 4-in-1 drivers, and it's important to install these before other drivers such as video card and sound card. After that, do video and sound. The nVidia card needs nVidia Detonator drivers. The sound card is a Sound Blaster Live Value, which can be a real pain, as there were many different versions and many different drivers which only installed on specific cards. If you can find something for that card and have the choice, take .vxd drivers. not .wdm.
Apart from that none of the devices you mention need drivers. You might have a network adapter though, it will probably need drivers.

First stop for drivers is www.vogonsdrivers.com. You should find everything I referred to there.

The hdd is making a constant whining noise and the pc is extremely slow, sometimes not even responding when trying to open files and programs. I’m guessing the hdd needs to be replaced. I’d like to replace it with a small ssd if possible. But I’m not sure how to do that.

That sounds (literally) like a dying HDD. Replace ASAP.

SSD sounds simple but can be rather tricky - even small SSDs might be too large for motherboard BIOS, SSDs are SATA, so need either a SATA-PATA adapter or a PCI SATA card that works in your old motherboard. If you manage to get the hardware sorted you then hit the fact that you need to align partitions to sectors on an SSD, and Windows 98/DOS FDISK can't do that so you need to partition and format the drive elsewhere under a different OS. I've done it on a similar system, using a vintage Intel X25E 64GB SSD and a Promise SATA150 TX2Plus controller, but it was a bit of a bumpy ride - not recommended for a first time.

Better idea: a compact flash card or a Disk-on-Module. CF actually uses the IDE interface, so all you need to get it to work is a passive CF-IDE adapter. Because it's passive it's pretty foolproof, unlike active SD-IDE or SATA-PATA adapters. A 16GB CF card would be very affordable (EUR 19 where I live for a Sandisk 50MB/s unit) and more than fast enough to max out the board's I/O controller. All you need is an adapter, which can be bought on AliExpress for EUR 3 or so including shipping, or slightly more locally if in a hurry. Disk-on-Module is simply a flash disk you stick onto an IDE connector. They are rather old, and prices vary widely, but 16GB is doable and sometimes affordable on a famous auction site. De facto this will work the same as a CF card, just more elegantly as no adapters needed.

Hope this gives you some pointers in the right direction. If you need more detailed help, don't hesitate to ask 😀

Reply 2 of 8, by Barbrady

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I'd replace the power supply, I assume it's 18-20 years old if it's the original. Also check the capacitors on the mainboard, if they're bulging they need to be replaced. Even if not bulged the could be bad after all that time. You can check the voltages with a software e.g. Hardware Monitor or they may show up under something like PC Health in the Bios but at this age it wasn't common to have a sensor chip onboard.

Reply 3 of 8, by aaronkatrini

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I think that would be a half decent PC for Win98 gaming.

Getting Win98 on it shouldn't be very difficult if you know what to do.
You'd need a blank CD (get the cheapest online) and burn an ISO with Win98SE. Serial can also be found online if you know where to look (google) . On some computers a Boot-Floppy is required, if you have a Floppy Disk create one on WinXP before trying to install Win98SE.
Also the HDD making noise, might not be a sign of failure. The Hdd back in the day would make a lot of noise compared to modern Hdd's. The fact that it is slow could indicate that are many programs installed and might need a defrag because it is seeking data on different sectors. You could check with a free program like HDtune or HD Sentinel (trial version) if the drive is still ok.
Let us know how it goes and if you need more help 😀

Reply 4 of 8, by LaserBear

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dionb wrote on 2020-04-16, 23:06:

First off: welcome! And nice machine you got there 😀

Hey, thank you for the reply. I’m going to follow your advice as I go. After some research I think I’m going to go with an ide to sd adapter. My question is I see some that just have the ide female connector but no power connector, and then some with both. Do I need to send power to that adapter?

Also, on the sound card, both cords are unplugged, one cord comes from the dvd drive and I’m not sure where to plug it in, the second cord is much shorter and I’m also not sure where to plug it in on the card, and where the other end would go. (See attachment)

Last question, so there is a a card for usb 2.0 slots, could I possibly install Windows 98se with a bootable flash drive?

I also included a picture of the mobo (best I could). Kind of dirty but all of the capacitors look good.

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Reply 5 of 8, by aaronkatrini

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The adapters without the power connector should be 44pins and are meant for laptops. Get the one with the 40 pin one with the power connector. If I'd suggest an CF to IDE as it would need no chip conversion, and it would be faster, but then again if you don't have a CF card then it might not make sense to go buy another thing.

The long cable from the CD drive should be plugged into the CD in of the sound card. The short cable goes from the sound card to the motherboard.

If your motherboard supports booting from an external USB device you could. But I've never seen a Slot1 motherboard that supports it, so NO GO I suppose. 🙁

BTW, you got extremely lucky! The motherboard seems to be based on the Intel i440BX chipset, considered by many one of the best chipsets ever!
Also the Sound Card is the Live! from Creative Labs, a very good sound card for Win98. And the Cherry on top... the Video card doesn't seem to be the M64 variant (which kinda sucks) but the full TNT2 (maybe if you're super lucky, it could also be the Pro version). 😀

Reply 6 of 8, by chinny22

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Nice system.
The Gateway Performance shipped with a Tabor III Motherboard. This is a BX motherboard which is famous for been rock solid. built by Intel themselves so you have the most reliable of an already reliable motherboard 😀
You can get the latest drivers from Phil's computer Lab site, your after 3.20.1008.zip
https://www.philscomputerlab.com/intel-chipset-drivers.html

You can also get the Graphics drivers off his site, The TNT2 is holding the 600Mhz back a bit but fine while your dipping your toes in this hobby
https://www.philscomputerlab.com/nvidia-9x-gr … cs-drivers.html

The Promise card is an upgraded hard drive controller Phil did a video on it, Personally I'd set it aside for now and use the motherboards to keep things simple.

Not familiar with the network card myself but google seems to think these drivers will work (tip I have more luck installing Network cards via device manager/Have disk then any wizard)
http://www.network-drivers.com/companies/1230 … thx=9&bng=7&o=3

I also wouldn't worry about the USB card, just yet anyway.

The SBLive! is a good card but drivers can by "fun" vogons drivers linked above has a few different versions to try 1 will end up working.

That motherboard wont boot off USB, no way. Floppy disk or CD is your only options. What many of us do is have a "recovery partition" create a 2nd partition and copy the Win98 folder off the CD to here as well as any drivers and this removes the need for boot disks with CD support. You can even do this on another PC if your going down the CF card route.

Reply 7 of 8, by dionb

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LaserBear wrote on 2020-04-17, 05:38:
dionb wrote on 2020-04-16, 23:06:

First off: welcome! And nice machine you got there 😀

Hey, thank you for the reply. I’m going to follow your advice as I go. After some research I think I’m going to go with an ide to sd adapter. My question is I see some that just have the ide female connector but no power connector, and then some with both. Do I need to send power to that adapter?

Again, I'd recommend CF rather than SD due to no active converter needed, so lower latencies and no compatibilit issues. If you must go SD, make sure you have a 40p, not a 44p adapter. The ones without power cord are probably the latter.

Also, on the sound card, both cords are unplugged, one cord comes from the dvd drive and I’m not sure where to plug it in, the second cord is much shorter and I’m also not sure where to plug it in on the card, and where the other end would go. (See attachment)

These cables are for analog audio, usually from an optical drive to a sound card. Given that your system has two optical drives (DVD and CDRW) I suspect that they used to go from DVD and CD to the Sound Blaster.

Last question, so there is a a card for usb 2.0 slots, could I possibly install Windows 98se with a bootable flash drive?

Highly unlikely. The USB card doesn't have its own BIOS so can't boot. Theoretically you might be able to boot from the onboard USB 1.1, but that would require motherboard BIOS support which is very unlikely. Yesterday I was playing around with Dell's version of this same motherboard, also made by Intel. It has lots of boot options, but USB isn't one of them.

In fact, USB under Windows 98SE is rather primitive at the best of times and compatibility of that Via chipset also less than ideal. You might have a lot of trouble getting it to work at all, let alone booting from it.

I also included a picture of the mobo (best I could). Kind of dirty but all of the capacitors look good.

Beautiful board. Rock-solid and made with the best components (as Intel boards were at that time). Expect trouble-free operation and good compatibility. Do not expect to be able to overclock easily.

Looking at those pics, the Promise Ultra-66 card can improve HDD performance a bit (the motherboard does 33MBps ATA), but I'd say it's more trouble than it's worth - booting is slower due to its BIOS and you need to mess around with drivers at install time to be able to boot Windows 98SE from it. I'm irritated by my SATA150 for the same reason, but that is almost five times faster - and I'm running Windows 2000, which is slightly more demanding. For Windows 98 I'd just use the onboard ATA-33.

As for the NIC, that NC100 looks suspiciously like a relabeled Realtek RTL8139. Realtek still has Windows 98 drivers on its driver site, you could try those.

Reply 8 of 8, by darry

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NC100 uses Tulip driver under Linux , so not Realtek based .
https://wiki.debian.org/DeviceDatabase/PCI

See https://download.cnet.com/nc100_dr-exe/3000-2 … 2_4-168629.html
For drivers