Congrats to the PPro boards. Now its time to find the CPU with matching cooler and the buffered EDO RAM for the board.
Need to check mine if there is also this heavy bracket on top and the connectors for an unknown piggyback module.
Yes, I will measure PSU outputs on M and XL, but first there is my birthday party this weekend followed by a few days of holiday on the road.
Still have to cleanup my apartment from all the PC parts spreading on tables and floors.
Unfortunately though I am making progress, I can't say I'm seeing results (yet). I received a Pentium Pro CPU (200MHz, 256kb) - it was cool to handle such a large processor. I have a TR3 system which when putting it together in ~December left quite an impression handling the CPU, yet the PPro almost seems larger and heavier still.
I thought I'd have to wait for RAM until I remembered I had bought this fully populated Compaq server RAM expansion board for cheap on eBay many years ago. It had been sitting wrapped in an antistatic bag all this time; I dug it out and lo and behold, no shortage of 168 pin EDO ECC FPM RAM! I borrowed four identical sticks from it...
And flip the switch... and.... sigh. When powering the machine, little happens... no fan, occasional barely audible click of a relay from somewhere in the system, and a motherboard LED flashing every second. It's the exact same behavior you see on a Deskpro XL if you unplug the fan from the motherboard. So... hmm.
Potential problem areas:
1) CPU could be bad. I have no reason to think this... it looks relatively undamaged, top and bottom, with no bent pins. I really don't want to purchase another.
2) CPU board could be bad... I will unwrap the second one and give it a try. I double checked the SW2 and SW3 configurations per the quick reference guide - they are correct.
3) Could be the RAM I used is not 100% compatible but that should be easy to verify with a couple of other sticks. I am using 4 sticks of 228468-001 from that server RAM board, which appears to be a 32MB EDO ECC 60ns stick. Should be OK?
4) My hunch is that the XL requires the newer system/IO board to use the PPro cards. I wish someone had one of the newer systems & could verify. I do not see a path to sourcing the newer system board.
Finally, regarding the mysterious two connectors on the PPro board, I still don't know what they are, but I noticed Compaq's old memory upgrade reference has this cartoon drawing, almost suggesting a board should be in this location. Mystery!
You'll see a single link to what I believe was a forum post on a site called peteweb.com where someone had done this type of upgrade as I am attempting. The search results clip the post, trying to pull the link from Google's cache does not help, and thus far about 30 minutes of tooling around the Wayback Machine archive of peteweb.com's message board has not allowed me to locate this thread. Oh, the amazing internet content out there that is lost forever due to an endless cycle of forums appearing then failing.
Just a few updates here for anyone who might someday follow these footsteps to see how far a Deskpro XL can be pushed:
- I got in contact with a retired engineer at Compaq who was able to help me confirm that the 486/Pentium and PentiumPro models used different system boards. Going from the former to the latter requires a new system board. I have been unsuccessful in locating one. So, my PPro 200 Deskpro XL is on hold... even though I have the board, processor and memory ready to go. Worse, I also have the Pentium II overdrive sitting next to it... I had hoped to turn this into a P2/333 beast 😀
- On a brighter note, I found a P100 board and the PODP3V166 overdrive upgrade which provides a 166MHz clocked chip for the P100 system. The board worked fine with the P100 (usual ~5-7% expected gain) and to my delight, worked perfectly with the Overdrive processor installed. Nearly everything is substantially faster. It's not a P2/333 but hey, we're making progress!
- Then I thought I wonder if I could go in the opposite direction? I had a 486/66 processor board I'd purchased for a few dollars many years ago, and realized I had a 486DX2/66 and popped it in. Yes, the XL is now slower. But, I also have a 486SX/33 lying around - would it work? I tried and yes it does. The BIOS gives an 'Unsupported / Missing FPU' error as it clearly was not intended to be used in this way, but it boots to DOS and I can run various apps and games.
So, at the moment, I can move from a 486SX/33 to a P166 with a single board swap. Hopefully I can find one of those P200MMX ODP upgrades that I think provides even more boost.
Received more compaq parts from Russia, among these is XL which has power supply, 486 processor card and the i/o with slots. I got a real XL processor card that is set up for 133MHz. Not tested yet as I have to check the PSU as Russia seller said this PSU is not working either and very complex.
I am now awaiting final parts for my Deskpro M build up, still without PSU still, so had to use what I have and pinout I made from ohm check via slots. The success with using ATX power supply using short ATX extension with pinout changed for the Deskpro M and is working beautifully, does not complain about missing -5V.
Swiego and others who have working Deskpro M, Please check what kind of voltage the pin 1 on the power supply connector when together (when on)? The pin 1 is rearmost on right side (towards) PSU if you look down at computer with front end facing you. This one does not generate signal when Deskpro M is on and I left that unconnected but when I made the pinout layout, did note pin 1 is connected on the motherboard's side when I shined light from behind backlighted the trace to this pin by visual check.
mpewrote on 2020-06-04, 07:51:The PPRO card looks great. But I wonder if a CPU card with such a little glue logic can really work on system boards designed fo […] Show full quote
The PPRO card looks great. But I wonder if a CPU card with such a little glue logic can really work on system boards designed for Pentium (or even 486?). Are this cards compatible as soon as they fit into the slot?
I have this system board (004321-001 or 004320-001). I am trying to find out if ti can take the CPU card that looks just like P120 one on picture above. But I have just the board - no PSU. Could someone with working system post/measure the connector and pinout? Ot is it documented somewhere?
PS: I was also interested in using a Prosigina parts in cross parts use and figured this out early on that it is smart not to try since I was trying to assemble a working compaq computer on the cheap was not possible.
Mpe: This system board is for Prosignia 500, uses prosignia processor cards, very different due to firmware differences. Needs power supply for this as well.
Since I found out that Deskpro XL power supply wiring is very complex so same issue for your Prosigina 500 PSU pinout will be also different. I have to get XL stuff working first and document the pinout.
Prosignia 300 and 500 differs in both system boards and PSU are also different also the towers of 300 take few hard drives, while 500 takes many more.
pentiumspeed, I'm currently [slowly] recapping my Deskpro M PSU so it will be some time before I can do the measurement. Removing the existing capacitors has been a huge pain--so much so that I've lately been feeling disincentivized to work on it!
I can confirm first hand that Prosignia boards will not work on Deskpro XL motherboards - I purchased, tried and confirmed this.
I managed to upgrade my XL even further, to a P200MMX PODP. Works great and so quick now...
Really need flux paste. Get Amtech 559 flux from good seller and very strong solder vacuum tool. Make sure your tip is little broad on your soldering tool and of course lead solder 63/37.
Bought these from this seller and these is genuine flux. Do not buy from chinese.
pentiumspeed, I'm currently [slowly] recapping my Deskpro M PSU so it will be some time before I can do the measurement. Removing the existing capacitors has been a huge pain--so much so that I've lately been feeling disincentivized to work on it!
I can confirm first hand that Prosignia boards will not work on Deskpro XL motherboards - I purchased, tried and confirmed this.
I managed to upgrade my XL even further, to a P200MMX PODP. Works great and so quick now...
Swiego,
Yesterday, received few more items for my Deskpro M, three pieces of parts, among these is PSU fan with cover. That PSU fan has third wire that sends out no rotation signal error if fan is stuck or stopped. Remember back in the day, tach signal for RPM did not appear until PII motherboard started using these.
This means I realized that pin one 1 on the PSU connector could be a error signal, active high if PSU or fan experiences failure? You could invoke the error by blocking the fan, and turn on and monitor the PSU's pin #1?
Fans has impedance protected means they self-limit on current when stuck.
You could consult with retired compaq engineer about this? I would be happy if I can get pinout of the 64K cache card slot too even schematic of one? This way I could recreate 64K cache card with 485 cache controller so they work in deskpro i, and several other computers that use same case form factor.
Did compaq annoyingly reused the slot on many computers for 256K cache card as well or is it for extra ram for video card?
I managed to upgrade my XL even further, to a P200MMX PODP. Works great and so quick now...
Remember we had at work 5 or 6 Deskpro XL 5100 that i upgraded with the Kingston Turbochip 366 (AMD K6-2) if i remember correct (may be 333) in 1999. Even used this upgrade on a Proliant 4500 and two Proliant 1500 that all had Pentium 166 CPU cards. That upgrade were very welcome for the sluggish Proliant 4500 that ran NT4 as a DC, file and print server, Oracle SQL and all sort of tasks that had been throwed at it. We did this cheap upgrade after getting a quote on an extra P166 CPU card that was outlandish priced since it only could be buyed as a spare part.
You'll see a single link to what I believe was a forum post on a site called peteweb.com where someone had done this type of upgrade as I am attempting. The search results clip the post, trying to pull the link from Google's cache does not help, and thus far about 30 minutes of tooling around the Wayback Machine archive of peteweb.com's message board has not allowed me to locate this thread. Oh, the amazing internet content out there that is lost forever due to an endless cycle of forums appearing then failing.
That said, most are dupes due to what appears to me to be an improper forum archive operation, and there's really only two or so unique posts in the thread.
Thanks to Mr. "PeteWeb" who I tracked down on Twitter to ask him about PeteWeb. 😀
"I see a little silhouette-o of a man, Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you
do the Fandango!" - Queen
You'll see a single link to what I believe was a forum post on a site called peteweb.com where someone had done this type of upgrade as I am attempting. The search results clip the post, trying to pull the link from Google's cache does not help, and thus far about 30 minutes of tooling around the Wayback Machine archive of peteweb.com's message board has not allowed me to locate this thread. Oh, the amazing internet content out there that is lost forever due to an endless cycle of forums appearing then failing.
That said, most are dupes due to what appears to me to be an improper forum archive operation, and there's really only two or so unique posts in the thread.
Thanks to Mr. "PeteWeb" who I tracked down on Twitter to ask him about PeteWeb. 😀
Wow thank you! It was tremendously exciting to be able to read the thread... then disappointing after I had done so 🙁 if the poster’s experiences were accurate, he tried what I have been unable to (source a new system board) and it did not work. In which case, I too would be perplexed and my attention would turn perhaps to the power supply?
I wish I had the foresight to look for and purchase one of these PPro XL models back when they were likely more plentiful.
mpewrote on 2020-06-04, 07:51:The PPRO card looks great. But I wonder if a CPU card with such a little glue logic can really work on system boards designed fo […] Show full quote
The PPRO card looks great. But I wonder if a CPU card with such a little glue logic can really work on system boards designed for Pentium (or even 486?). Are this cards compatible as soon as they fit into the slot?
I have this system board (004321-001 or 004320-001). I am trying to find out if ti can take the CPU card that looks just like P120 one on picture above. But I have just the board - no PSU. Could someone with working system post/measure the connector and pinout? Ot is it documented somewhere?
mpe,
The picture of yours belongs to a ProSignia 500 mainboard. I have found the 5 pin and 7 pin connector pinout from my Compaq ProSignia 486 mainboard with the help of EISA slot, but I don't have the 3rd 8 pin connector you have, try to find yourself like I did. (By using a test meter.)
1 ------ 2 ----- 3 ----- 4 ------ 5 ------ 6 ------- 7 ------0----- 1 ------- 2 ------ 3 ------ 4 ------ 5
Red --- Red --- Red -- Yellow -- Black --- Black ---- Black ----0---- Black ---- Blue -- Orange -- Red ---- White
+5 ---- +5 ---- +5 ---- -5 ---- Gnd ---- Gnd ----- Gnd -----0---- Gnd ----- -12 ---- +12 ---- +5 ---- Power OK
Red --> +5 Volt
Black --> Negative (Gnd)
Yellow --> -5 Volt (directly connected to EISA pin B5)
Blue --> -12 Volt (directly connected to EISA pin B7)
Orange --> +12 Volt (directly connected to EISA pins B9 and F9)
White --> Power OK
eisapcwrote on 2020-05-19, 06:03:The Prosignia 300/500 has a different planar, but the CPU complex is identical with the XL.
I swapped them so often, I still do […] Show full quote
The Prosignia 300/500 has a different planar, but the CPU complex is identical with the XL.
I swapped them so often, I still dont know what board originated where.
The only difference might be the bracket, but I am not even sure about this.
I do not remeber plugging a fan to the CPU board, only to the XL planar.
First I would try to run the CPU complex with the memory soldered onboard only, second step Add some parity PS/2 Simms.
Only combo i did not prove yet is the 6200 CPU complex in the Prosinia. The Pentium Pro was never offered in the Prosignia by Compaq.
BTW did you run the latest ROMPAQ on the XL?
If it was a 4xx model originally it might not support the 5xx CPU boards natively.
If you still cannot make it work PM me for a known working spare.
Hi eisapc,
I've tried with both the onboard memory only as well as appropriate memory sticks without success--same behavior. The machine is running the final ROMPAQ for the XL (I believe 4/97 or thereabouts.). The machine was a native / original P90 that I am trying to slot a faster Pentium board into.
Here is a picture of my Prosignia 300 P120 board - 169174-002 (baseboard 004812-015) which matches several references online. There is a P120 under the heatsink. Note the six RAM slots and the fan header just above the CPU. I also have a P150 board (262329-001, often described as a P150 for the Prosignia 300/500 though less definitively; baseboard labeled 004712-014 suggesting Prosignia 300) that as far as I can tell is absolutely identical other than (a) the part no. labels and (b) a P150 underneath the heatsink. Both are Socket 5.
169174-002 P120jpg.jpg
In contrast here is the original board that came with my XL, labeled 003510-001, with a P90 under the heatsink, also Socket 5. Here, there are only 4 slots for memory, the board layout is different, and there is no fan header above the CPU. I also have two other XL boards (P60 and the 486/66) I purchased many years ago; neither is socketed nor tested (never got around to it) but both boards also have 4 RAM slots. The 486 is socket 2; the P60 is Socket 4.
003510-001 P90.jpg
I'll PM you directly but wanted to share this information here for posterity--it's hard to find information online about these computers.
Somewhat unrelated, I have been leveraging the following documents for part number information but am curious if anyone knows their origin. They reference IBM part numbers for Compaq parts which is unusual. They also seem to represent the best summary of critical upgradable parts for old Compaq desktops despite being IBM douments?! Any ideas?
Did you tried reversing Pentium 120 and Pentium 150 processors with each other? Did the Pentium 150 processor worked on Pentium 120 CPU base board? Because Pentium 120 is P54C and Pentium 150 is P54CS, there is 0.6 --> 0.35 micron difference and processor supply voltage difference " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_(original)" I wish to add a Pentium 150 processor on Pentium 133 CPU base board. I hope you can catch this....
