Rawit wrote on 2020-06-03, 13:57:

Did you finalize the discs? If not, that may cause trouble reading them on other devices.

I used both multisession and finalized discs, I honestly did not find any difference.

In terms of IDE oprical drives, I have small reserve of LIte-On and LG drives . I have not experienced read issues yet and my media stockpile is even older (I still have blank Kodak disks from when they were made in Mexico, before the Moser Baer ones made in India).

I've had two or three IDE DVD-RW drives go bad over the past couple of years, and they have all been LG.

DeadnightWarrior wrote on 2020-06-03, 09:33:

Hi all, My Via K8M800 / AMD Athlon 64 based retro system is working fine ATM. But one thing is driving me mad: I can't seem to […]
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Hi all,
My Via K8M800 / AMD Athlon 64 based retro system is working fine ATM.
But one thing is driving me mad: I can't seem to find a working IDE DVD drive.
I tried FOUR different ones, three LGs and a TDK: none of them would properly read home made CD-R / RW and DVD-R / RW and in fact, they often don't even detect the discs! I use to burn them on my Ryzen PC with a fairly common LG SATA DVD burner, but even trying multiple discs and low write speeds doesn't help.
This happens on both Windows 98 and Windows XP SP2, with IDE drivers properly installed and active DMA.

I think it's essential to have a functioning IDE optical drive, especially for all those games relying on CD music as no SATA drive I know of seems to have the audio connector.
I'd gladly go and buy a new one but no one manufactures IDE optical drives anymore, so I'm stuck with the used market and it's a Russian roulette.

Any advice on brands / models to check?

Thank you for bearing with me!

They often don't even detect the discs, so sometimes they do detect the discs?
Have you tried these 4 drives in any of your other rigs? Have you tried any of your SATA optical drives in your A64 rig, if only to test if it would at least work?

EDIT: You mention that the burned discs do work in the optical drive in which they were burned? Have you tried burning a disc with another optical burner and then having your IDE drives read those discs? Perhaps for some reason the older IDE drives are not liking what your current burner produces??

Tetrium wrote on 2020-06-03, 22:18:

They often don't even detect the discs, so sometimes they do detect the discs?

Yeah it's a bit random: for example when I was trying to install Windows XP using up to three different discs, a couple of times the system would boot and hang mid-installation, other times the it did not even detect that a disc was inserted.

Tetrium wrote on 2020-06-03, 22:18:

Have you tried these 4 drives in any of your other rigs? Have you tried any of your SATA optical drives in your A64 rig, if only to test if it would at least work?

I don't have other IDE capable rigs actually. As for the opposite, I did try a brand new SATA LG drive on the A64 but it was a bit tricky 'cause the mainboard has a very early iteration of SATA. Not the best of options, I'd say.

Tetrium wrote on 2020-06-03, 22:18:

EDIT: You mention that the burned discs do work in the optical drive in which they were burned? Have you tried burning a disc with another optical burner and then having your IDE drives read those discs? Perhaps for some reason the older IDE drives are not liking what your current burner produces??

This might very well be the case. My daily rig has a fairly modern optical drive, purchased about three years ago. What I can try to do is burn the discs using dedicated softwares (CDBurnerXP, UltraISO, Nero, Burrn...) instead of Windows 10's built in function. And maybe trying the lowest possible write speed could help?

What I usually do may not be the most desirable way, but I have not had any problems with it:

Create an ISO file or cue/bin and copy to a compactflash card on the modern computer. Then on the old one I mount it with Daemon tools and rely fully on the image. The audio is translated to digital by software if I'm not mistaking.

Works perfectly on any win98 and up machine, but with older machines it may be useless. No support in DOS and W3.11 (and maybe w95?).

The main disadvantage is this takes some computer recourses, so if the system barely meets the minimum specs it is a big deal (but then I usually get to a faster computer any way)

DeadnightWarrior wrote on 2020-06-04, 14:07:

Yeah it's a bit random: for example when I was trying to install Windows XP using up to three different discs, a couple of times the system would boot and hang mid-installation, other times the it did not even detect that a disc was inserted.

When I had a problem like this, it turned out that the hard drive was going bad. Before buying new DVD drives, you may want to try to install to a different HDD first. It's probably not the case given that the disc is not detected but worth a try especially if the HDD is old.

boxpressed wrote on 2020-06-04, 14:58:

DeadnightWarrior wrote on 2020-06-04, 14:07:

Yeah it's a bit random: for example when I was trying to install Windows XP using up to three different discs, a couple of times the system would boot and hang mid-installation, other times the it did not even detect that a disc was inserted.

When I had a problem like this, it turned out that the hard drive was going bad. Before buying new DVD drives, you may want to try to install to a different HDD first.

Well, never say never... However I used a brand new, sealed HDD and apart from this issue, daily use of the OSes is flawless (I'm dual booting 98 and XP). That's why I tend to blame the optical drives.

DeadnightWarrior wrote on 2020-06-04, 14:07:

Tetrium wrote on 2020-06-03, 22:18:

They often don't even detect the discs, so sometimes they do detect the discs?

Yeah it's a bit random: for example when I was trying to install Windows XP using up to three different discs, a couple of times the system would boot and hang mid-installation, other times the it did not even detect that a disc was inserted.

Were the XP install discs burned ones or were they original media?

DeadnightWarrior wrote on 2020-06-04, 14:07:

Tetrium wrote on 2020-06-03, 22:18:

Have you tried these 4 drives in any of your other rigs? Have you tried any of your SATA optical drives in your A64 rig, if only to test if it would at least work?

I don't have other IDE capable rigs actually. As for the opposite, I did try a brand new SATA LG drive on the A64 but it was a bit tricky 'cause the mainboard has a very early iteration of SATA. Not the best of options, I'd say.

It can be very handy having plentiful spare parts laying around, if only so you have lots of parts you can swap to help eliminate the part that is causing an issue.
And it wouldn't even be the first time if 2 parts work by themselves but for whatever reason don't like each other (though I think the latter is unlikely to be the case in your case as you used 4 different optical drives by now).

Things you could try out (in a hypothetically optimal case) is to try out the optical drives on another motherboard, swap IDE cables, swap PSU, obviously change IDE channel, heck even check for an empty battery, demount from the case in case there is some weird short or whatever going on. It often doesn't even need to be an obvious problem, it might as well have been something that you/we missed.

But having a testing environment has helped me out plenty in the past. Of course once you have build dozens of rigs, you somehow get to a workflow which optimizes building computers.

But at any rate, it helps having some spare parts laying around if only so you can test (and because I've had a couple situations in which a single defective computer part ruined another previously good computer part and I don't want that to happen again 🤣).

Btw, try out your new SATE optical with some SATA2IDE converters and see if that will work on your IDE channel.

DeadnightWarrior wrote on 2020-06-04, 14:07:

Tetrium wrote on 2020-06-03, 22:18:

EDIT: You mention that the burned discs do work in the optical drive in which they were burned? Have you tried burning a disc with another optical burner and then having your IDE drives read those discs? Perhaps for some reason the older IDE drives are not liking what your current burner produces??

This might very well be the case. My daily rig has a fairly modern optical drive, purchased about three years ago. What I can try to do is burn the discs using dedicated softwares (CDBurnerXP, UltraISO, Nero, Burrn...) instead of Windows 10's built in function. And maybe trying the lowest possible write speed could help?

That's one thing you could try. Or perhaps even try to burn a disk using one of your IDE burners and see what happens (this will probably ruin one of your discs though, but if you happen to have plenty then why not?).

EDIT: Btw, don't completely rule out that it might actually be a PSU problem.
What PSU are you using in your older IDE rig and how old is it/how long has it been in use?
Could even be that the PSU is still healthy, but that it can't provide enough power to the system? It could explain why the rig seems to work fine when mostly in idle mode but starts having issues when it has to get to work.

If you open up the IDE drives, you should be able to adjust the laser power. There is almost always a very small POT on the laser assembly. Usually just adjusting it a tiny bit will make them work better with burned discs.

Before upping the laser power, I would try cleaning the laser lens first. They tend to get a film of whatever on them that makes them not be able to focus and read properly. a Q-tip usually works really well. You can even dampen the Q-tip first, clean the lens and then dry it with the other end of the Q-tip.

Tetrium wrote on 2020-06-04, 16:18:

It can be very handy having plentiful spare parts laying around,
[...]

I totally agree but I have a very serious problem and it's called "space" 😁
There's absolutely no way I could build two desktops, let alone several of them... I'd have to leave my house!

Tetrium wrote on 2020-06-04, 16:18:

That's one thing you could try. Or perhaps even try to burn a disk using one of your IDE burners and see what happens (this will probably ruin one of your discs though, but if you happen to have plenty then why not?).

This I can easily try.

Tetrium wrote on 2020-06-04, 16:18:

EDIT: Btw, don't completely rule out that it might actually be a PSU problem.
What PSU are you using in your older IDE rig and how old is it/how long has it been in use?
Could even be that the PSU is still healthy, but that it can't provide enough power to the system? It could explain why the rig seems to work fine when mostly in idle mode but starts having issues when it has to get to work.

I have a very basic, very low budget case + 500W PSU combo (this one) I bought a couple of months ago; it's been on for a relatively tiny amount of hours.
It's not great by any means but it's new and I didn't have any kind of trouble while playing games, which I guess should be a far more demanding task than reading CDs... I don't know.

DeadnightWarrior wrote on 2020-06-03, 09:33:

Any advice on brands / models to check?

I was in the same situation as you and then found the NEC ND-4570A and NEC ND-4571A. There were manufactured at the beginning of 2006 and work fine with a variety of discs. All units that I bought turned out fine. Only drawback is the lack of a volume knob.

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-06-04, 17:07:

If you open up the IDE drives, you should be able to adjust the laser power. There is almost always a very small POT on the laser assembly. Usually just adjusting it a tiny bit will make them work better with burned discs.

Sounds quite interesting, I never dared trying anything like that!
Do I need a multimeter?

DeadnightWarrior wrote on 2020-06-05, 15:00:

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-06-04, 17:07:

If you open up the IDE drives, you should be able to adjust the laser power. There is almost always a very small POT on the laser assembly. Usually just adjusting it a tiny bit will make them work better with burned discs.

Sounds quite interesting, I never dared trying anything like that!
Do I need a multimeter?

Keep in mind that increasing laser power will likely reduce its lifespan, though .

darry wrote on 2020-06-05, 15:06:

DeadnightWarrior wrote on 2020-06-05, 15:00:

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-06-04, 17:07:

If you open up the IDE drives, you should be able to adjust the laser power. There is almost always a very small POT on the laser assembly. Usually just adjusting it a tiny bit will make them work better with burned discs.

Sounds quite interesting, I never dared trying anything like that!
Do I need a multimeter?

Keep in mind that increasing laser power will likely reduce its lifespan, though .

Right. I've never had to increase the power very much at all though and never had a drive die after I have done this. Usually just a very tiny adjustment fixes it.

I'm almost convinced that the connection just gets poor at the specific place it is sitting at and even just adjusting it up and then back down again to the original position will fix it, just like how the volume POTs on older sound cards get scratchy / flakey until you clean them with deoxit or similar.. at least on newer drives anyway.

On really old drives that were not really designed to read burned discs, upping the laser power a tiny bit is usually required to read burned discs.

There are a number of online tutorials on how to tweak the laser on the original Xbox DVD drive, especially the Thompson model. I could never get a conclusive answer about whether this put the actual discs at risk.

Try a live linux distro and use one of it's cd/dvd burning programs on all the drives in question. I use Brasero and my old rigs, 286 up, read everything I throw at them if I use a suitable cd/dvd reader in them.

darry wrote on 2020-06-05, 15:06:

DeadnightWarrior wrote on 2020-06-05, 15:00:

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-06-04, 17:07:

If you open up the IDE drives, you should be able to adjust the laser power. There is almost always a very small POT on the laser assembly. Usually just adjusting it a tiny bit will make them work better with burned discs.

Sounds quite interesting, I never dared trying anything like that!
Do I need a multimeter?

Keep in mind that increasing laser power will likely reduce its lifespan, though .

So in essence, this is optical drive overclocking? 😜

DeadnightWarrior wrote on 2020-06-05, 14:38:

Tetrium wrote on 2020-06-04, 16:18:

It can be very handy having plentiful spare parts laying around,
[...]

I totally agree but I have a very serious problem and it's called "space" 😁
There's absolutely no way I could build two desktops, let alone several of them... I'd have to leave my house!

So in what kind of shoebox do you live? 😜
But in all seriousness, space is one of the challenges that many collectors of retro hardware will run into sooner or later. Similar are games (and especially the older big boxes). But I found that having no spare parts whatsoever is like having to live your life having only a single pair of shoes or something. Sure you can manage but you will run into issues sooner or later and then you'll get stuck 😜

DeadnightWarrior wrote:

This I can easily try. […]
Show full quote

Tetrium wrote on 2020-06-04, 16:18:

That's one thing you could try. Or perhaps even try to burn a disk using one of your IDE burners and see what happens (this will probably ruin one of your discs though, but if you happen to have plenty then why not?).

This I can easily try.

Tetrium wrote on 2020-06-04, 16:18:

EDIT: Btw, don't completely rule out that it might actually be a PSU problem.
What PSU are you using in your older IDE rig and how old is it/how long has it been in use?
Could even be that the PSU is still healthy, but that it can't provide enough power to the system? It could explain why the rig seems to work fine when mostly in idle mode but starts having issues when it has to get to work.

I have a very basic, very low budget case + 500W PSU combo (this one) I bought a couple of months ago; it's been on for a relatively tiny amount of hours.
It's not great by any means but it's new and I didn't have any kind of trouble while playing games, which I guess should be a far more demanding task than reading CDs... I don't know.

The case shouldn't matter much, unless it is some really shoddy build quality. I've used cheaper cases in the past and apart from some extra cuts and overall quality issues (like the case being of weak construction, very light and easier for parts of it to break), it should work provided nothing is shorting anything or anything like that.
The PSU is imo much more important. You should check what brand your PSU is and what rails it has.
In the end the build quality and amps on the rails of the PSU matters more than how much Watts the sticker on the side sais it has 😜
I don't think I'm familiar with Tacens btw, so I can't say much about them.

Tetrium wrote on 2020-06-06, 00:33:

So in what kind of shoebox do you live? :P But in all seriousness, space is one of the challenges that many collectors of retro […]
Show full quote

DeadnightWarrior wrote on 2020-06-05, 14:38:

Tetrium wrote on 2020-06-04, 16:18:

It can be very handy having plentiful spare parts laying around,
[...]

I totally agree but I have a very serious problem and it's called "space" 😁
There's absolutely no way I could build two desktops, let alone several of them... I'd have to leave my house!

So in what kind of shoebox do you live? 😜
But in all seriousness, space is one of the challenges that many collectors of retro hardware will run into sooner or later. Similar are games (and especially the older big boxes). But I found that having no spare parts whatsoever is like having to live your life having only a single pair of shoes or something. Sure you can manage but you will run into issues sooner or later and then you'll get stuck 😜

DeadnightWarrior wrote:

This I can easily try. […]
Show full quote

Tetrium wrote on 2020-06-04, 16:18:

That's one thing you could try. Or perhaps even try to burn a disk using one of your IDE burners and see what happens (this will probably ruin one of your discs though, but if you happen to have plenty then why not?).

This I can easily try.

Tetrium wrote on 2020-06-04, 16:18:

EDIT: Btw, don't completely rule out that it might actually be a PSU problem.
What PSU are you using in your older IDE rig and how old is it/how long has it been in use?
Could even be that the PSU is still healthy, but that it can't provide enough power to the system? It could explain why the rig seems to work fine when mostly in idle mode but starts having issues when it has to get to work.

I have a very basic, very low budget case + 500W PSU combo (this one) I bought a couple of months ago; it's been on for a relatively tiny amount of hours.
It's not great by any means but it's new and I didn't have any kind of trouble while playing games, which I guess should be a far more demanding task than reading CDs... I don't know.

The case shouldn't matter much, unless it is some really shoddy build quality. I've used cheaper cases in the past and apart from some extra cuts and overall quality issues (like the case being of weak construction, very light and easier for parts of it to break), it should work provided nothing is shorting anything or anything like that.
The PSU is imo much more important. You should check what brand your PSU is and what rails it has.
In the end the build quality and amps on the rails of the PSU matters more than how much Watts the sticker on the side sais it has 😜
I don't think I'm familiar with Tacens btw, so I can't say much about them.

Spare parts are both my lifeblood and the bane of my existence .