VOGONS


Retro Hardware Collecting rants

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Reply 660 of 866, by Miphee

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imi wrote on 2020-08-31, 10:30:

yeah I started a list, but I'm still failing at this step ^^

Yeah, it's tough when you buy a lot of stuff.
I have an advantage though, I don't ever sell anything so I only have to add new items to the list. 😀

Reply 661 of 866, by devius

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I also keep an updated list. I decided it was time to crate one when I opened a box of expansion cards I had at the time and was surprised to see a few ones that I didn't even remember I had. The only disadvantage of keeping a list like this is that you never have nice surprises like that any more 😆

Reply 662 of 866, by TheMobRules

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A while back I purchased an item from an international seller in eBay... not something terribly rare or expensive, but kind of uncommon and for a very good price. A few days after the purchase, the seller marked it as "shipped" but without any tracking number, which made me suspicious since the listing mentioned the int'l shipping would be insured. I figured he would update the tracking later, so I decided to wait, but after a couple of weeks without updates I sent him a message asking if he had some way of tracking the shipment since it would help me to avoid customs delays when it reaches my country, but that it wasn't a major problem if he couldn't provide it. No reply at all.

I'm starting to suspect that he regretted selling the item at a price that is considerably lower than the average for this type of thing, and never really sent anything. The deadline for the estimated delivery date is tomorrow, so I'll contact him again to ask for tracking details as I want to make sure the item isn't stuck on customs or something like that since I currently have no way of knowing where the item might be. If I get no answers in a few days, I'll file an INR claim which I will probably win since he never provided tracking within the estimated delivery period. I'm mostly annoyed by the waste of time all of this could end up being... and when will some sellers understand that going radio silent only makes things worse?

Reply 663 of 866, by Miphee

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On topic of fake/legit chinese items:

I'll cut this debate short: everything is legit unless the contrary is proven.
The source of the item is irrelevant here. I only answered because: "Chance the China ones are fake: High."
Absolutely no proof of this statement but I see it everywhere. It's very popular to bash the chinese market because people encountered fake items before.
It's like claiming all french cars are bad because they produced bad cars before.
Newsflash: the majority of businesses get their inventory from China in bulk to get even better prices. Are those all fake too?

Reply 664 of 866, by yawetaG

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Miphee wrote on 2020-09-05, 08:08:
On topic of fake/legit chinese items: […]
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On topic of fake/legit chinese items:

I'll cut this debate short: everything is legit unless the contrary is proven.
The source of the item is irrelevant here. I only answered because: "Chance the China ones are fake: High."
Absolutely no proof of this statement but I see it everywhere. It's very popular to bash the chinese market because people encountered fake items before.
It's like claiming all french cars are bad because they produced bad cars before.
Newsflash: the majority of businesses get their inventory from China in bulk to get even better prices. Are those all fake too?

Fine. You are right, and all of the people who have posted evidence of the contrary are wrong.

Also, the earth is flat.

Reply 665 of 866, by imi

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I agree that not everything from china is fake (I mean, after all pretty much everything is from china)... but at the same time I also agree that the chance to get a fake is definitely higher from chinese sellers :p

yes, a lot of local sellers get their inventory from china... but they usually already check for fakes if they are actually legit sellers, and/or they picture exactly what they're selling, so you know it's fake before you buy.

idk what your experience is, but I have got plenty of fakes from china, sometimes functional, sometimes functional but a vastly inferior product and sometimes not even functional, and in 90% of those cases what was pictured was not what I got (sometimes you know you will get a knock off purely based on price)

that does not mean that there's no sellers selling fakes here, there's plenty on amazon alone (but most of them are actually china based).

a few recent examples...
remarked chips... I mean if they work... technically not a fake as such, I'd still prefer them not do that.
copied product from another chinese company with vastly inferior quality, missing heatsinks on chips that definitely need them... so while it works at first (I mean they just copied it after all), it won't for long if you don't fix that yourself.
keyboard dampening rings that weren't at all what was pictured but just simple rubber o-rings instead

there's a few more, but in most cases I knew before what I was buying, a lot of soldering equipment...

Reply 666 of 866, by Miphee

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yawetaG wrote on 2020-09-05, 11:43:

Fine. You are right, and all of the people who have posted evidence of the contrary are wrong.

Also, the earth is flat.

There are fakes.
Not everything that comes out of China is fake.
Simple.

Reply 667 of 866, by darry

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Miphee wrote on 2020-09-05, 08:08:

On topic of fake/legit chinese items:

I'll cut this debate short: everything is legit unless the contrary is proven.

I will state my disagreement with that affirmation . IMHO, there are situations where the opposite is true . It is probably best if we just agree to disagree on this point .

Reply 668 of 866, by Miphee

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imi wrote on 2020-09-05, 12:07:

I agree that not everything from china is fake (I mean, after all pretty much everything is from china)... but at the same time I also agree that the chance to get a fake is definitely higher from chinese sellers :p

You covered most of the main aspects of this topic.
Reputable chinese sellers with hundreds of thousands of positive reviews won't sell fakes even though their prices are very good. These are 99.x%< sellers.
I just hate this "oh things are all fake from China!" monologues that are based on dealings with criminals.
That's not the norm. It's really simple: the chinese government supports it's own people and that helps them keep their prices down. Lower prices = more business. More business = even lower prices. Naturally local small businesses in other countries with strict regulations can't compete with that so their own governments add extra import taxes to discourage people from buying from China. They take from their own people to give to their own people. It's bad for the individual but good for small businesses. It's good and bad.
I'm still not going to pay 5-10x the price for the same item and won't fall for the lie that everything that is chinese is automatically fake, bad, out of spec and substandard.

Reply 669 of 866, by Miphee

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darry wrote on 2020-09-05, 14:21:

I will state my disagreement with that affirmation . IMHO, there are situations where the opposite is true . It is probably best if we just agree to disagree on this point .

Do you accept that small businesses sell items that are imported from China? That their government helps them keep their prices down?
I can only rely on one thing: I use the items I buy and they work. So why would I believe others who tell me that these are fake and bad and out of spec?
I just installed 5 caps in a mainboard and it's all good. The previous ones I installed are good too. So what should I think? That these are all fake and I'm just lucky they work? I'm only pissed because people are very quick to judge but offer little to no proof.
I ask back: how could anybody know that they are buying legit items from local stores? Because they told them so? That's no proof either.
But I also agree that nothing is 100% certain. I'm done with the subject.

Reply 670 of 866, by dr_st

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What is a "fake"? To me it's when you buy something that's advertised as a specific item by a specific manufacturer, and get some generic crap or a forgery. There is certainly a whole industry of this in China, but it is not the norm.

If you buy something that's advertised as 'generic' / 'compatible' or just some complete no-name, and the pictures show just that - it's not "fake", it's just generic junk.

https://cloakedthargoid.wordpress.com/ - Random content on hardware, software, games and toys

Reply 671 of 866, by yawetaG

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Miphee wrote on 2020-09-05, 14:07:
There are fakes. Not everything that comes out of China is fake. Simple. […]
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yawetaG wrote on 2020-09-05, 11:43:

Fine. You are right, and all of the people who have posted evidence of the contrary are wrong.

Also, the earth is flat.

There are fakes.
Not everything that comes out of China is fake.
Simple.

Now you're moving goalposts. First you claimed otherwise.

Also, I never said that everything that came out of China was fake.

Reply 672 of 866, by Horun

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Ok lets just all agree that there are some fakes and some remarked (misleading) products out of China but most are legitimate. I can say the same here in USA, have seen some obvious remarked and a rare few fakes being sold here. As always: check the reviews and if 97% or better then you can be mostly assured what you are buying is what it is, but always check the ratings and see if that same item was flagged with a negative by another buyer. Craigslist is where it gets tricky but you can see the product first hand so if you have done your homework then you know exact what it should look like. Have seen pics on Craigslist that look good but when seen in person there is damage or item not exact as the pictures, etc. BUT that is extremely rare !

Hate posting a reply and have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. 🤣 Second computer a 286 12Mhz with real IDE drive ! After that came 386, 486, Pentium, P.Pro and everything after....

Reply 673 of 866, by darry

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Horun wrote on 2020-09-06, 00:49:

Ok lets just all agree that there are some fakes and some remarked (misleading) products out of China but most are legitimate. I can say the same here in USA, have seen some obvious remarked and a rare few fakes being sold here. As always: check the reviews and if 97% or better then you can be mostly assured what you are buying is what it is, but always check the ratings and see if that same item was flagged with a negative by another buyer. Craigslist is where it gets tricky but you can see the product first hand so if you have done your homework then you know exact what it should look like. Have seen pics on Craigslist that look good but when seen in person there is damage or item not exact as the pictures, etc. BUT that is extremely rare !

I agree, but will add that, IMHO, some product categories are more likely to be counterfeited than others .

Essentially anything that either

a) is produced in numbers in generic low cost versions but to which adding fake branding or a qualifier (like a higher speed rating) can add perceived value (memory cards, proprietary batteries, possibly capacitors)

or

b) can be produced in relatively small numbers, likely at a significant per unit per unit cost, but for which the added markup is so high when fake branding is applied that it is worth counterfeiting (overpriced luxury fashion accessories, high-end headphones, etc) .

is an easy target .

More complex to manufacture products can also be targets of counterfeit and may originate from the same factories as the authentic products (so-called midnight production runs come to mind ).

Reply 674 of 866, by liqmat

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I think most Chinese food in America is counterfeit. I never generalize. <smirk>

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Reply 676 of 866, by Horun

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kolderman wrote on 2020-09-06, 03:25:

I feel like having a rant about this entire thread.

Can I rant about your rant about this entire thread ? 😁

Hate posting a reply and have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. 🤣 Second computer a 286 12Mhz with real IDE drive ! After that came 386, 486, Pentium, P.Pro and everything after....

Reply 677 of 866, by IBMFan

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yawetaG wrote on 2020-09-05, 20:14:

Now you're moving goalposts. First you claimed otherwise.
Also, I never said that everything that came out of China was fake.

You effectively did and also never responded to any of his questions like why should you condemn an entire market based on a few bad eggs or how do you know your local sources are all trustworthy?:My local shop sells Teapos! So how's that better than buying Panasonics directly from the guys who actually make them? Bcause china are all bad now and the current common enemy? Then you hear a few stories about fake chips and you spread it like it's the entire country that's doing it 24/7? GTFO.

Reply 678 of 866, by Montaron

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Can we all agree to be angry at the gold refiners on the bay these days.

Searching for scrap lots always comes up with these fake "gold" bars that must contain little gold, be unprofitable to refine and put out a load of toxic fumes to make.

Many CPUs were harmed in the making 🙁

Glad to see any rare lots saved by member here.

Ye already be disturbed; now leave me be. Yer company be toil enough as is.