VOGONS


Retro Hardware Collecting rants

Topic actions

Reply 760 of 893, by Horun

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Not a rant but a generalization: everything a few generation old is always the cheapest in comparison to older or newer items. Long ago during the very early 386 era bought a IBM 3270 PC with CGA for $250 (the original receipt was for near $2500 was included) about 2 generations old . Same system today in same condition goes for nearly half the original price if you can find one complete in good working order. Currently socket 478 and 775 stuff being fairly cheap with some complete computers going for way less than $100 and roughly 3 gens old compared to newer i5/i7 stuff. In the next 5-10 years those will also rise in price as they become more rare and follow the same history as the previous waves of computer generations. As well as a lack of vintage hardware there are fewer of us that want that old stuff so the price gets exponentially increased. Anyone collecting for more than a decade knows all this already...............just rambling 😀

Hate posting a reply and have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. 🤣 Second computer a 286 12Mhz with real IDE drive ! After that came 386, 486, Pentium, P.Pro and everything after....

Reply 761 of 893, by Miphee

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
imi wrote on 2020-09-19, 14:54:

you realize the people you're trying to talk to are not in this forum? ^^

Yes, they are here but I already made my point. If the cap fits, wear it because we were not talking about 50 euro but $500. Even 50 is overkill for many items and it still negatively influences future prices. If I give $100 for the same item and (re)sellers start using that as the new price you'll be pissed too and start asking: "Why are those so fucking pricey?! Last time they were only 50." We're all in this together, like it or not.

Reply 762 of 893, by imi

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

well hence why I used the example of midi modules, the going rate for those is usually €100+ at least around here, so I was actually happy I got them for "just" €50 and sometimes even under, of course I'm going to jump on them for that price if I can afford it, which I said I'm lucky I can, because I do know not everyone can just decide to spend even that much. But I'd rather spend €50 than wait for an even better deal and risk going empty handed and instead see the prices rise even higher (which is true for most items).
I personally don't believe that this contributes to rising prices when they often already go for way more when I bought them.
and yes, it took me quite a while to get those deals even, so it wasn't a case of "I wan't it now" it was a combination of always being on the lookout and a good portion of luck on top of it.

staying with the example of the MT-32... I've been looking for one for a while... then one popped up on the local classifieds for €20 or 25 I think, I jumped in excitement... I immediately called up the person and asked if they were willing to ship it to me (cause it was far out of town) but of course multiple people had already declared interest and were willing to pick it up... so I straight up offered €50 because that's what I set as my limit for midi modules and that was what I was willing to spend (they already sold far in excess of €100 on ebay at that time) and I got it... sure, maybe one would have popped up again for €20 some day closer to me, but I wasn't ready to take that chance for an item that is ever increasing in price and had a far higher "value" already.
not trying to justify anything, just explaining my train of thought, but I also don't see how me offering less then the going rate on ebay contributes to rising prices, it's not like that person will suddenly start selling more of them at a higher price :p

...and sure enough, a few months later they started selling for €200+ already and sometimes even for €300.
I saw another one pop up for €50 again this year I think... but I didn't even contact the person, cause I already had one and I wanted someone else to get the chance... though it might have probably gone to a scalper instead, idk ^^
I don't buy things just to resell them, so I usually don't even jump on great deals like that if I have it already, though I do sometimes buy things I fear might end up in scrappers or scalpers hands instead.

90% of my collection comes from scrap lots anyways, so can't really compare prices there.

Reply 763 of 893, by Unknown_K

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Doornkaat wrote on 2020-09-19, 13:05:
Why are you hating, dude? I mean, I'm not paying crazy prices either. I can't even afford to and if I could I would probably sti […]
Show full quote
Miphee wrote on 2020-09-19, 10:07:
If people had more self-control this would never happen. But they want that item, they want it for $400, and they'll buy it for […]
Show full quote

If people had more self-control this would never happen. But they want that item, they want it for $400, and they'll buy it for $1000 too.
Why? They want the item NOW. They don't want to wait for a cheaper option, they want that item even if they have to get into a bidding war to get it.
They can't wait to show off their new acquisitions here.
Impatience, greed and vanity, the three major price increasing factors.

Why are you hating, dude?
I mean, I'm not paying crazy prices either. I can't even afford to and if I could I would probably still not do it because I don't value those things that much.
Instead I spend a lot of time browsing/watching various sources for retro parts and try to be the first buyer. I actually kind of enjoy this 'hunt'. And I definitely spend too much time with it. 😁
But if there's somebody with more money and less time than me why hate him for using the resource that's better avaliable to him to achieve the same goal?

I've never heard anyone say that people who aren't willing to spend lots of money on old hardware and would rather wait (and maybe even risk never getting a certain piece) don't really appreciate it and were somehow in the wrong.
So why would somebody be wrong for appreciating this stuff enough to pay a lot of money for it?

All hobbies are like this. Those with enough money get whatever they want. I am sure the people who buy Apple 1's don't even use them.

The hobby is still cheap if you look for deals and don't start hoarding. When I started collecting I was getting one of everything I wanted and some spares because it was fun and cheap because nobody else wanted it. Times change.

Collector of old computers, hardware, and software

Reply 764 of 893, by Miphee

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Again people interpreted this as a personal attack and not as a phenomenon, just like last time with the other guy.
Hitting a nerve does that and makes further conversation impossible about the topic.

Reply 765 of 893, by darry

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
Unknown_K wrote on 2020-09-19, 16:37:
Doornkaat wrote on 2020-09-19, 13:05:
Why are you hating, dude? I mean, I'm not paying crazy prices either. I can't even afford to and if I could I would probably sti […]
Show full quote
Miphee wrote on 2020-09-19, 10:07:
If people had more self-control this would never happen. But they want that item, they want it for $400, and they'll buy it for […]
Show full quote

If people had more self-control this would never happen. But they want that item, they want it for $400, and they'll buy it for $1000 too.
Why? They want the item NOW. They don't want to wait for a cheaper option, they want that item even if they have to get into a bidding war to get it.
They can't wait to show off their new acquisitions here.
Impatience, greed and vanity, the three major price increasing factors.

Why are you hating, dude?
I mean, I'm not paying crazy prices either. I can't even afford to and if I could I would probably still not do it because I don't value those things that much.
Instead I spend a lot of time browsing/watching various sources for retro parts and try to be the first buyer. I actually kind of enjoy this 'hunt'. And I definitely spend too much time with it. 😁
But if there's somebody with more money and less time than me why hate him for using the resource that's better avaliable to him to achieve the same goal?

I've never heard anyone say that people who aren't willing to spend lots of money on old hardware and would rather wait (and maybe even risk never getting a certain piece) don't really appreciate it and were somehow in the wrong.
So why would somebody be wrong for appreciating this stuff enough to pay a lot of money for it?

All hobbies are like this. Those with enough money get whatever they want. I am sure the people who buy Apple 1's don't even use them.

The hobby is still cheap if you look for deals and don't start hoarding. When I started collecting I was getting one of everything I wanted and some spares because it was fun and cheap because nobody else wanted it. Times change.

I think that trying to have spares (at least one, price allowing) for what you actually use is still important, especially if prices are on the rise . I did say "what you use", as getting one or more of everything that tickles your fancy is not feasible in the long run because of space constraints, costs notwithstanding, unless you are a rich collector with plenty of space (not my case). Times do change, but rising/high prices can force us to make choices that most of us should have been making even when prices were low, IMHO .

Reply 766 of 893, by darry

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
Miphee wrote on 2020-09-19, 16:03:
imi wrote on 2020-09-19, 14:54:

you realize the people you're trying to talk to are not in this forum? ^^

Yes, they are here but I already made my point. If the cap fits, wear it because we were not talking about 50 euro but $500. Even 50 is overkill for many items and it still negatively influences future prices. If I give $100 for the same item and (re)sellers start using that as the new price you'll be pissed too and start asking: "Why are those so fucking pricey?! Last time they were only 50." We're all in this together, like it or not.

I agree about trying to not be part of the problem the ends up affecting us all .

I will add that it can be a balancing act between temptation to get something at an unreasonable cost and indignation about it, especially when prices are still relatively low for a given item . It is a slippery slope (towards rising prices). We should at least all be careful to avoid encouraging massively overpriced outliers that make the market trend upwards .

That said, rarity will always cause prices to rise in the face of high demand . That is, for better or worse, the way it works .

Reply 767 of 893, by Warlord

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Miphee wrote on 2020-09-19, 17:12:

Again people interpreted this as a personal attack and not as a phenomenon, just like last time with the other guy.
Hitting a nerve does that and makes further conversation impossible about the topic.

guess you weeded out the culprets

Reply 768 of 893, by imi

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Miphee wrote on 2020-09-19, 17:12:

Again people interpreted this as a personal attack and not as a phenomenon

you literally adressed "us" :p

Miphee wrote on 2020-09-19, 10:07:

Someone already mentioned the reason for the price increase.. it's you! And by that I mean most of us.

and no, I did not take it personally, hence why I said you're adressing the wrong people.
I definitely agree that you should not give in to price driving or pay excessive amounts for items, and that that in turn raises prices for everyone... but saying "it's you" in a forum that definitely mostly consists of people that are not doing what you are talking about just seems weird :p and not like talking about a "phenomenon"

Reply 769 of 893, by Warlord

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

It's defiantly not me, I rarely buy things off EBay, and when I do it's becasue I am stealing something as whoever listed it is doesn't know what they are have and its listed in language that makes it hard for you people to find on there. I rarely spend more than 20 dollars on anything.

Last thing i bought on ebay was MSI BX Master which no one seemed to want for some reason think i paid 25 for it, I bought a Toshiba Satellite 2805-s402 for about 35, had broken hinges that I replaced.

Reply 771 of 893, by Miphee

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

As I wrote before, if the cap fits...

imi wrote on 2020-09-19, 17:33:

you literally adressed "us" :p

No, MOST of us, that excludes some. Big difference. And what happened? People who claim they are not part of the problem started to write a wall of text denying the problem. It indicates a guilty conscience being present otherwise they should just keep quiet. It's not about them, right?
And now every guy with a $30 purchase is here explaining why it's not about him at all and prices are going up on their own. Puleeese.

Reply 772 of 893, by Miphee

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
darry wrote on 2020-09-19, 17:23:

I agree about trying to not be part of the problem the ends up affecting us all .

I just realized that it's hopeless. People are too uptight when it comes to their responsibility and it won't ever change.
That would require acknowledgement first and it's near-impossible.

Reply 773 of 893, by imi

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Miphee wrote on 2020-09-19, 19:22:

No, MOST of us, that excludes some. Big difference. And what happened? People who claim they are not part of the problem started to write a wall of text denying the problem. It indicates a guilty conscience being present otherwise they should just keep quiet. It's not about them, right?

it's not "us" nor is it "most of us" imho, also idk what you're on about, but nobody has been writing a wall of text denying the problem, there have just been a few posts at all... and none denied it?

why would we keep quiet discussing something you brought up? that's literally what a forum is about, I really don't get what you're trying to achieve here.
this sure affects all of us, so why not discuss it - this thread is literally called collecting rants, and that's a very ranty topic about collecting :p

let me say this again, I don't disagree that this is a problem, but I strongly disagree that anyone here is actually contributing to it at any appreciable capacity.
if you believe otherwise, that is fine too, but try to be more upfront about it, saying "it's you" or even just "most of you" is just bad attitude imho, and of course you can expect some pushback with such a blanket "accusation", you literally made it "about them".

and of course I can only talk about my own behavior because idk how other people approach this, I explained how I try to not overpay stuff and in turn increase prices, I don't know how much more I can do.

Reply 774 of 893, by RaverX

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
Unknown_K wrote on 2020-09-19, 16:37:

All hobbies are like this. Those with enough money get whatever they want.

The good thing is that people with a lot of money will have expensive hobbies, like supercars, expensive watches, expensive art (paintings, etc). They don't compete with us for retro hardware, there might be very few exceptions.

Reply 775 of 893, by Big Pink

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
Miphee wrote on 2020-09-19, 19:28:

People are too uptight when it comes to their responsibility and it won't ever change.

A responsibility to keep prices low? I thought this was a hobby, not a cartel.

I don't wish to be rude, but there's a streak of entitlement running through this thread hiding behind the language of egalitarianism. Let them eat 5500 PCIs.

I thought IBM was born with the world

Reply 776 of 893, by badmojo

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
Miphee wrote on 2020-09-19, 19:28:

I just realized that it's hopeless. People are too uptight when it comes to their responsibility and it won't ever change.

It is disappointing when "people" don't conform to the rules you made up but now that you've accepted that they never will, you can stop whining about it - yay!

If it's broke, then fix it!

Reply 777 of 893, by Horun

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

I rarely buy off Ebay and also only spend the amount I think the part is worth and will wait until I see something close to that price -- so am also not the one creating big price increases.
Here is a rant: some items sold in some parts of the world are very reasonable but in other parts of the world same or similar parts are very expensive. This has nothing to do with currency exchange rates between countries but is more a localized rarity and in-country price "fixing" ("fixing" meaning those in same country use the same localized pricing guides). Am sure many of us have seen this situation. I am talking about the base price of an item not including shipping.

Hate posting a reply and have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. 🤣 Second computer a 286 12Mhz with real IDE drive ! After that came 386, 486, Pentium, P.Pro and everything after....

Reply 778 of 893, by imi

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

indeed, I can't even count how many parts I've found on ebay.com for cheap that I'd have gotten in a heartbeat... but shipping to EU usually costs multiple times what the item is worth and add to that customs and taxes on top and it just becomes entirely unreasonable ^^

but yeah, same is true the other way too most likely for other parts, though for some reason shipping from EU to US seems to be a lot cheaper than the other way round.

I'm really going to miss having easy access to the UK market.

Reply 779 of 893, by Horun

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
imi wrote on 2020-09-19, 23:28:

indeed, I can't even count how many parts I've found on ebay.com for cheap that I'd have gotten in a heartbeat... but shipping to EU usually costs multiple times what the item is worth and add to that customs and taxes on top and it just becomes entirely unreasonable ^^

but yeah, same is true the other way too most likely for other parts, though for some reason shipping from EU to US seems to be a lot cheaper than the other way round.

I'm really going to miss having easy access to the UK market.

Shipping and custom fee's/taxes ! Yes that opens a whole new series of rants 😀

Hate posting a reply and have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. 🤣 Second computer a 286 12Mhz with real IDE drive ! After that came 386, 486, Pentium, P.Pro and everything after....