VOGONS


Retro Hardware Collecting rants

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Reply 800 of 878, by devius

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Quadrachewski wrote on 2020-09-20, 11:28:

...If guys continuously overpay then sllers will ask more that's certain.

Yeah, I've started seeing this on my local classifieds. There has always been the occasional seller with insane prices that never actually sells anything, but nowadays the lower prices for super common junk items have been increasing. I've also seen some sellers that clearly use eBay as a tool to price their own items even though the local market is still very different. I'm sure that in due time these "insane prices" will just become the norm, since the lower priced deals will be gone.

Reply 801 of 878, by Miphee

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Quadrachewski wrote on 2020-09-20, 11:28:

Let's just say that its caused by many factors, overpaying included. If guys continuously overpay then sllers will ask more that's certain.

Agreed. It is part of the problem but not a small part. If I always pay significantly more for the item that will increase prices in the future for others as well.
That was the whole point before all that wall of text.

Reply 802 of 878, by DosFreak

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Guys keep it civil please. Again vogons is not a marketplace and it seems we can't even talk about the subject without it going off the rails. If it keeps up the thread will be closed.

Wonder if we should just start being ridiculous and censoring the words for the trading sites to get the point across. Religion, Politics and trading seem to always be an issue for some reason. We are tech people and should be better than this.

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Reply 803 of 878, by Quadrachewski

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devius wrote on 2020-09-20, 11:34:
Quadrachewski wrote on 2020-09-20, 11:28:

...If guys continuously overpay then sllers will ask more that's certain.

Yeah, I've started seeing this on my local classifieds. There has always been the occasional seller with insane prices that never actually sells anything, but nowadays the lower prices for super common junk items have been increasing. I've also seen some sellers that clearly use eBay as a tool to price their own items even though the local market is still very different. I'm sure that in due time these "insane prices" will just become the norm, since the lower priced deals will be gone.

I've seen it on local classifieds too,the price for xt parts nearly doubled in a year. I'm not talking about known brands but simple clones.
I always see the same buyer names on auctions,typically bigtime buyers and resellers who can afford to pay more. They often sell these items on Ebay for profit.
I miss the old days when it was still cheap nd fun.

Reply 804 of 878, by Tetrium

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imi wrote on 2020-09-20, 12:06:
DosFreak wrote on 2020-09-20, 11:38:

Guys keep it civil please. Again vogons is not a marketplace and it seems we can't even talk about the subject without it going off the rails. If it keeps up the thread will be closed.

while I completely understand your position, I hope the thread stays open regardless, it's good to have an outlet to rant about the "business" side of things so to say ^^ ...and better have a dedicated thread for it than to let it seep into other topics ^^

I had personally hoped initially (when the idea of creating this thread was first conceived in the "What did I buy" something thread), was about issues we have with collecting, including stuff like "My wife also doesn't like this" or "My kids think my hobby is for old people" or "Where do I store all these things" because those things are fun to talk about 😀
As things have become though is more similar to that thread that was about Ebay sales or something. And that ended kinda ..poorly. It's not exclusively the mods and the admins who don't want to see such drama unfold here.

If this thread merely becomes a dumping place of negative purchasing experiences, it's bound to attract more negatism at some point which may end up spilling over into other areas of the forum anyway. It may also end up attracting more people with a more negative mindset and these people apparently like to create clone accounts which they then use to exert negative influence or to circumvent any potential future closure of their main account etc etc etc.
But anyway, my point is negativity seems to attract more negativity and I think this just won't work in the long run.

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Reply 805 of 878, by kdr

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Long-time VOGONS lurker here...

It's thanks to the crazy-spending collectors that I can afford to have nice retro gear. I can buy a pile of untested scrap, safe in the knowledge that parting out half of it will pay for the other half that I want to keep. Some folks in our hobby don't have the time or patience to hunt down the scattered hoards of dusty retro gear and methodically test all of it. And so they end up paying top dollar for those bits and bobs that I deem worthy of listing on my local auction site. 😀

Reply 806 of 878, by imi

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kdr wrote on 2020-09-20, 12:49:

It's thanks to the crazy-spending collectors that I can afford to have nice retro gear. I can buy a pile of untested scrap, safe in the knowledge that parting out half of it will pay for the other half that I want to keep. Some folks in our hobby don't have the time or patience to hunt down the scattered hoards of dusty retro gear and methodically test all of it. And so they end up paying top dollar for those bits and bobs that I deem worthy of listing on my local auction site. 😀

good point ^^
yeah often people who sell stuff just to finance the hobby often get thrown into the same pot with scalpers unfortunately, I completely get that though and have no qualms against anyone doing it for that reason.
I usually don't sell anything, but sooner or later I will have to let some things go because I'm simply running out of space... and well money always anyways ^^
selling stuff you don't need anymore or you accumulted duplicates of to refinance new acquisitions is totally valid imho.

Tetrium wrote on 2020-09-20, 12:41:

I had personally hoped initially (when the idea of creating this thread was first conceived in the "What did I buy" something thread), was about issues we have with collecting, including stuff like "My wife also doesn't like this" or "My kids think my hobby is for old people" or "Where do I store all these things" because those things are fun to talk about 😀

well that too obviously! 😁 and we do in fact rant about that a lot too here anyways ^^

Reply 807 of 878, by Tetrium

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kdr wrote on 2020-09-20, 12:49:

Long-time VOGONS lurker here...

It's thanks to the crazy-spending collectors that I can afford to have nice retro gear. I can buy a pile of untested scrap, safe in the knowledge that parting out half of it will pay for the other half that I want to keep. Some folks in our hobby don't have the time or patience to hunt down the scattered hoards of dusty retro gear and methodically test all of it. And so they end up paying top dollar for those bits and bobs that I deem worthy of listing on my local auction site. 😀

The people who have more money to spend are (at least in my experience) not necessarily a big cause of why prices have increased so much. I know this isn't something that you said here, but more just something I had forgotten to mention earlier and you reminded me of that 😜

10 years ago these more wealthy people were also there, except that these people would often even hand out stuff to me because having me pay a (in their eyes) puny amount of money for those parts that, to them, are just getting in their way. Often even being happy that I was so happy with this old stuff (and that they got rid of it of course). Or they wanted just a sixpack of beer for it or something instead of €10 and most of these people had a good job with a large privately owned house, so no need to squeeze as much as they can out of that bony old lemon if they already feel satisfied with the deal 😜

Sometimes these more wealthy people might even pay more than the asking price regardless of whether or not some part is rare, but more out of kindness and because they got what they wanted without much fuzz. or at least this is the impression that they gave me. Btw I'm not talking about Artex 😜 😜
I never met him in person but I have met other people with significantly better purchasing power compared to myself here 😜

I don't think that the few people who have more to spend and are willing to do so are at fault here or anything. Sure, they can be seen to also play a part in this but I think that some sellers will have insanely high asking prices for their stuff regardless of whether there even are any richer collectors out there. They will list a single second-hand floppy drive cable for €49 merely because it has a Compaq sticker on it or something and the seller hopes that someone will actually end up paying that price for it.
I think that most more wealthy hobbyists wouldn't even pay such an amount if they know they can get it more cheaper and just as plausibly easy from a different seller. They just don't want the extra fuzz most of the time as that takes extra effort and time, which they often won't have.

Not saying that everybody with lots of money is good or bad or anything. But I don't think they are to 'blame' for the price increases we've been seeing over the years.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
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Reply 808 of 878, by Tetrium

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imi wrote on 2020-09-20, 12:57:
good point ^^ yeah often people who sell stuff just to finance the hobby often get thrown into the same pot with scalpers unfort […]
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kdr wrote on 2020-09-20, 12:49:

It's thanks to the crazy-spending collectors that I can afford to have nice retro gear. I can buy a pile of untested scrap, safe in the knowledge that parting out half of it will pay for the other half that I want to keep. Some folks in our hobby don't have the time or patience to hunt down the scattered hoards of dusty retro gear and methodically test all of it. And so they end up paying top dollar for those bits and bobs that I deem worthy of listing on my local auction site. 😀

good point ^^
yeah often people who sell stuff just to finance the hobby often get thrown into the same pot with scalpers unfortunately, I completely get that though and have no qualms against anyone doing it for that reason.
I usually don't sell anything, but sooner or later I will have to let some things go because I'm simply running out of space... and well money always anyways ^^
selling stuff you don't need anymore or you accumulted duplicates of to refinance new acquisitions is totally valid imho.

Agreed. Especially if it's scrap lots which would otherwise get destroyed regardless of item functionality, one could say that these people are actually adding parts to the pool of existing parts which in the long run is a force that helps keep prices down (disregarding the other influences on prices for a bit here).

imi wrote on 2020-09-20, 12:57:
Tetrium wrote on 2020-09-20, 12:41:

I had personally hoped initially (when the idea of creating this thread was first conceived in the "What did I buy" something thread), was about issues we have with collecting, including stuff like "My wife also doesn't like this" or "My kids think my hobby is for old people" or "Where do I store all these things" because those things are fun to talk about 😀

well that too obviously! 😁 and we do in fact rant about that a lot too here anyways ^^

Lets hope we don't get too many stories about cats sleeping in parts boxes with the parts from those boxes never behaving the same way ever again 😜

But one part I can relate to fairly easily is the space this hobby requires. I've recently had to box up nearly everything and omg that was a lot more work than I had anticipated 🤣

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 809 of 878, by liqmat

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Tetrium wrote on 2020-09-20, 11:10:

(that example of the amiga is kinda heartbreaking btw)

and why I am so glad the Amiga, my favorite computing platform of all time, is also one of the best emulated platforms on the planet. For me, it's about the games, the demos and the awesome teenage memories.

Reply 810 of 878, by RaverX

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Miphee wrote on 2020-09-20, 08:46:

There is a difference between a billionare and a guy with a good job and a 6 figure income. The latter is more common than you think and it's impossible to tell who's wealthy here and who isn't.

Yes, there are quite a few who have a good job. Who's stopping you to get such a job?

darry wrote on 2020-09-20, 09:01:

Another variable is expenses. Somebody with no mortgage, spouse, kids, student loans, car loan, etc and who lives with his or her parents (increasingly common these days), will not need a 6 figure income to be able to afford lots of subjectively overpriced retro stuff .

And the point is? You are complaining that you have a mortgage and a car loan and some other guy doesn't? You're living alone or with your wife and you have a care, the other guy doesn't.

I really don't understand this. I get it, you might be a little "pissed off" when you see some guys that inherited a huge amount of money, but if you see a guy that works hard and has a good job and you envy/blame him? Come on, do it yourself.

Reply 811 of 878, by darry

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RaverX wrote on 2020-09-20, 15:02:
Yes, there are quite a few who have a good job. Who's stopping you to get such a job? […]
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Miphee wrote on 2020-09-20, 08:46:

There is a difference between a billionare and a guy with a good job and a 6 figure income. The latter is more common than you think and it's impossible to tell who's wealthy here and who isn't.

Yes, there are quite a few who have a good job. Who's stopping you to get such a job?

darry wrote on 2020-09-20, 09:01:

Another variable is expenses. Somebody with no mortgage, spouse, kids, student loans, car loan, etc and who lives with his or her parents (increasingly common these days), will not need a 6 figure income to be able to afford lots of subjectively overpriced retro stuff .

And the point is? You are complaining that you have a mortgage and a car loan and some other guy doesn't? You're living alone or with your wife and you have a care, the other guy doesn't.

I really don't understand this. I get it, you might be a little "pissed off" when you see some guys that inherited a huge amount of money, but if you see a guy that works hard and has a good job and you envy/blame him? Come on, do it yourself.

I am not complaining and am not "pissed" at those who have more available resources than I do, but I do empathize with those who are getting financially squeezed out of the hobby. I was simply stating that many variables affect a person's ability and hence willingness to pay for retro stuff .

We all have constraints or advantages, some of which we have chosen, others not so much . Some of us also have multiple hobbies that require money, others concentrate on one .

My point is that being rich or not is not necessarily the deciding factor on whether or not one is both willing and able to spend a subjectively "too high" amount of money on a given item . Impatience, for example, also plays a role .

To illustrate that let's consider a hypothetical item that regulatly pops on Ebay for around amount X, but one or more sellers have it for twice that, say amount Y . Obviously the units selling for X will sell first and, if demand is high, the value of X will increase over time . If there are times when items selling for Y are the only ones available, because those selling for X are temporarily all sold, anybody having both the means and willingness (impatience) to pay Y rather than waiting for an item selling for closer to X to appear will have contributed to increasing prices and perveived value significantly . IMHO, this is the sort of scenario (and similar variants) that we should try avoid contributing to as it ends up costing all of us more in the long run .

Obviously, this is just my opinion and don't expect everyone to agree . Of course, people are free to choose to buy what they want at any price they are able to pay and for whatever reason, I will not judge them for it .

TLDR :

a) Multiple variables affect ability and willingness to pay and potentially "overpay".
b)IMHO, certain buying habits can cause prices to rise faster than they otherwise would have .

Reply 812 of 878, by imi

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Tetrium wrote on 2020-09-20, 13:47:

Agreed. Especially if it's scrap lots which would otherwise get destroyed regardless of item functionality, one could say that these people are actually adding parts to the pool of existing parts which in the long run is a force that helps keep prices down (disregarding the other influences on prices for a bit here).

absolutely... and repairing stuff is also hard work, so I get if they want to sell it more expensive ^^
I try to at least partly fall into this category... even though I don't add much to the pool I just try to save as much hardware as I can.

Last edited by DosFreak on 2020-09-20, 17:39. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 813 of 878, by vetz

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Thread has been cleaned by the mod team and alot of posts deleted.

Absolute last warning. Any other snarky replies to other people calling them troll or newbie will be met with a temp ban and closure of this thread. We set the line here now

Now, get back on topic. Further off-topic posts regarding this derailment will be deleted.

Last edited by vetz on 2020-09-20, 20:48. Edited 2 times in total.

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Reply 814 of 878, by TechieDude

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Can't we all just accept that people who willingly pay very high prices for stuff are also part of the problem?

Last edited by vetz on 2020-09-20, 20:50. Edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed comment regarding previous de-railment of this thread. Send PM to a moderator if any futher comments

Reply 815 of 878, by MMaximus

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Thanks to the mod team for the housekeeping 👍

On a brighter note, the fact that we're all collecting old hardware (and physical games) that retains its residual value or even increases it over time, means that this hobby is actually a lot less costly than most! The day you're done with it, you sell your stuff and recoup the costs... let's not forget that 😀

Contrast this with the folks who are into modern games, sinking money into the latest graphic card every year, only to watch it depreciate over time 😉

Reply 816 of 878, by badmojo

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TechieDude wrote on 2020-09-20, 20:23:

Can't we all just accept that people who willingly pay very high prices for stuff are also part of the problem?

Maybe this is a region specific anecdote but when I got into retro (~12 years ago now) it was impossible to find 486 era stuff - the first motherboard I got my hands on was an import from OS. AT cases? Months of searching. Eventually I found the mother load - the local recycle center was a gold mine but they never put stuff from that era in the shop, I had to go into the dumping area out back on the pretext of throwing out some other gear and surreptitiously sneak anything beige into my car boot - literally stealing. Whatever I had to leave was doomed.

These days eBay has a 'vintage computing' section and there's a constant supply of AT stuff - yes it's relatively expensive and you have to get over the idea that old PC hardware is free / no more than a few bucks, but it's there. People aren't going to go to the trouble of listing stuff on eBay for a few bucks - I know I don't. So in my mind the options are for people to send their old PCs to landfill / leave them to rust in their sheds, or to sell them for decent money. There's no third option where the buyer gets to decide what "decent money" looks like, supply and demand has to take care of that.

If it's broke, then fix it!

Reply 817 of 878, by Horun

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I started collecting certain items about 2002 when I noticed a lot of older hardware I grew up with in the late 80's and early 90's was just going to garbage (pre-recycle electronics era here). More than 2/3 of my old stuff was picked up free or very cheap for about a dozen years. When upgrading friends computers I always got to keep any working old parts as my labor fee, some gave me more old stuff just because they did not need it. Due to all this: by the time 2012 rolled around had obtained dozens of boards, cards, cases, full computers, etc. Only in the last 3-4 years did I start buying up specific vintage or pre- soc 115x to complete my mental museum of what I want in parts. I consider my self very lucky to have not spent $1000's and $1000's on buying up old stuff just to have it.
OK so all that said:
My rant is: that like many others, have so much that I do not need but want to keep for my mental museum, that am running out of room. After completing a few more builds in last few months have no room left to store anything..
My Anti-rant: just because prices have gotten very high on certain vintage parts in the last 5 years there is no reason to blame any one person for it or those who buy parts at a high price. No where in my state can a licensed business (including thrifts stores) sell a CRT monitor. That makes the price very expensive and you can blame the recycle laws imposed on business for that.

Hate posting a reply and have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. 🤣 Second computer a 286 12Mhz with real IDE drive ! After that came 386, 486, Pentium, P.Pro and everything after....

Reply 818 of 878, by yawetaG

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MMaximus wrote on 2020-09-20, 21:08:

On a brighter note, the fact that we're all collecting old hardware (and physical games) that retains its residual value or even increases it over time, means that this hobby is actually a lot less costly than most! The day you're done with it, you sell your stuff and recoup the costs... let's not forget that 😀

Contrast this with the folks who are into modern games, sinking money into the latest graphic card every year, only to watch it depreciate over time 😉

Nah, it doesn't work that way - at least, not all the time. I've actually been in the collecting game for a lot longer than this (not computer hardware, actual collectibles), and what you describe happens to select items that are really rare and special to a lot of people (multiple generations of people...).
Most other items are popular at a certain point in time, the subject gets really popular, items reach crazy prices, and after that attention wanes. If the subject in question only existed for a short while and didn't have something special that attracts attention from different groups of people, it tends to be forgotten faster. Subjects need exposure to be remembered, and they need to be interesting to multiple generations of people to attract fresh meat (so to say).
Furthermore, for certain subjects, where wear and tear happens, or where the materials used degrade over time, it becomes harder and harder to find intact or functioning items, sometimes to the point that items are considered worthless because of that.
For example, some plastic age really badly and get to the point that merely manipulating them makes them auto-destruct, even if the item is boxed. There are also plastics that will auto-destruct just by sitting on a shelf, because the composition of the plastic degrades into something chemically unstable and stress fractures appear anywhere any form of stress occurs (screw holes, molding lines, swirls in the plastic). Major offenders of the latter: brown* and gold plastics, anything with metallic powder in it.

* Better watch those VLB slots. 😉

That is the reality of it.

What you write is the fantasy of a lot of collectors. 😀 But it will likely be like the difference between a vintage Ferrari and a vintage Trabant - one keeps its value quite well, the other...eh...

Reply 819 of 878, by gerry

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TechieDude wrote on 2020-09-20, 20:23:

Can't we all just accept that people who willingly pay very high prices for stuff are also part of the problem?

"the problem" is basically "I can't get what I want at the price I want"

reverse it by imagining you have enough voodoo cards to sell one - do you want $30 or $300+ in your bank account?

With emulation, Dosbox, patches and hacks being so good and always improving I really don't think most of the rare stuff is worth it and taking a step back to think about this would cause many to give up the chase, focus on what they already have and live more happily!

For instance, if a certain voodoo card costs 300 but a tnt2 or other alternative costs 20 then it's obvious to me which makes more sense. I just cannot care enough about the exact differences in shading or polygons or whatever to 'must have' the voodoo, and if in the end I cant make a certain game work with out it, then I would just play another game!

Same goes for rare sound cards, mt-32s or whatever - I can still hear nice things without them

I understand the collector desire, the wish to have the system exactly as one wants it - but when it's out of reach it simply isn't worth being upset about, slightly irritated and a bit frustrated yes, but not so that it spoils one's day